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Posted: 6/15/2016 12:32:59 PM EDT
Inquiring about starting a program in which residents of the county would be able to receive training with Sheriff's office in the use of firearms in a defensive situation that goes further than the standard CCW course. I know there are places that offer classes, but I think more people would go to one sponsored by the Sheriff's office. I'm hoping they'll write back to me and let me know what could be done to make this into a reality. If this is something you would be interested in as well I encourage you to write to the Sheriff's office. If you live in another county, write your Sheriff as well, maybe a few counties could team up and make this happen.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 1:38:06 PM EDT
Many agencies are short handed enough as is, and probably don't have the time or funds for this. The standard CCDW course isn't even put on by law enforcement agencies, it's put on by private individuals. Although it's standardized by DOCJT.

With all due respect, I'll disagree with you and say firearms training should be kept the way it is, through private individuals and organizations.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 1:42:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hillbillygoat:
Many agencies are short handed enough as is, and probably don't have the time or funds for this. The standard CCDW course isn't even put on by law enforcement agencies, it's put on by private individuals. Although it's standardized by DOCJT.

With all due respect, I'll disagree with you and say firearms training should be kept the way it is, through private individuals and organizations.
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I'm not saying it doesn't have a place, but training alongside local police forces would strengthen community ties to law enforcement and give an air legitimacy to the training in the eyes of the public that a private class doesn't. Understanding what the police will be doing in situations will also give the average joe a better understanding of how he and his family should react so as not to hinder the police or put themselves at more risk.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 7:45:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 7:54:21 PM EDT by softpoint]
Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
Inquiring about starting a program in which residents of the county would be able to receive training with Sheriff's office in the use of firearms in a defensive situation that goes further than the standard CCW course. I know there are places that offer classes, but I think more people would go to one sponsored by the Sheriff's office. I'm hoping they'll write back to me and let me know what could be done to make this into a reality. If this is something you would be interested in as well I encourage you to write to the Sheriff's office. If you live in another county, write your Sheriff as well, maybe a few counties could team up and make this happen.
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So, you think that the Sheriff should compete with the professional trainers in the county and maybe put them out of business. Maybe he could hold a drivers training classes and put them out of business, too. How would you like to go into competition with the Sheriff? Do you think that would make him happy. Do you think anybody would feel pressured to take the Sheriff's classes? Do you think somebody that had taken the Sheriff's class would expect special treatment in case they were involved in a shooting? How would you like to go to court against a person who had received his training from the Sheriff and have the Sheriff testify that your adversary was the best student he ever had and knew all about the gun laws? There is a million things wrong with this.

Public officials need to stay out of private business! That is one of the hallmarks of communism, the government runs all the businesses. This will just lead to cronyism.

Link Posted: 6/15/2016 7:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 8:02:55 PM EDT by Duramaxman0909]
If the fire stations can teach CPR classes why is this any different? It's not in any direct competition, because their are no trainers in Boone county. And Again, building community ties with law enforcement in addition to understanding their own tactics are second and third order effects you can't get from joe blow trainer
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 8:36:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 8:37:26 PM EDT by softpoint]
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
If the fire stations can teach CPR classes why is this any different? It's not in any direct competition, because their are no trainers in Boone county. And Again, building community ties with law enforcement in addition to understanding their own tactics are second and third order effects you can't get from joe blow trainer
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The Dept. of Criminal Justice Training lists 33 instructors in Boone Co., 35 in Kenton Co., 25 in Campbell Co. and 10 in Grant Co. CPR classes can be had for free from the Red Cross and many other locations. I don't know anybody that is trying to make a living by giving CPR classes. These are two reasons that it is different. There are more. When I was a kid, the County Judge was the local Ford dealer. We always had Fords and I asked my father why. He said that he didn't want to get the judge mad at him.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 10:26:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 10:28:59 PM EDT by geekz0r]
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Originally Posted By hillbillygoat:
Many agencies are short handed enough as is, and probably don't have the time or funds for this. The standard CCDW course isn't even put on by law enforcement agencies, it's put on by private individuals. Although it's standardized by DOCJT.

With all due respect, I'll disagree with you and say firearms training should be kept the way it is, through private individuals and organizations.
View Quote


I agree. I don't know if agencies will have the manpower to do this. However I also know there's good civilian instructors in KY too. You might want to look around to see who's offering the CCDW class to see if they're available for personal training beyond the scope of the regular class.


ETA: CPR and CCDW. That's not even comparing apples and oranges - that's more like comparing apples and statues of dolphins.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 10:34:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By geekz0r:


I agree. I don't know if agencies will have the manpower to do this. However I also know there's good civilian instructors in KY too. You might want to look around to see who's offering the CCDW class to see if they're available for personal training beyond the scope of the regular class.


ETA: CPR and CCDW. That's not even comparing apples and oranges - that's more like comparing apples and statues of dolphins.
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Originally Posted By geekz0r:
Originally Posted By hillbillygoat:
Many agencies are short handed enough as is, and probably don't have the time or funds for this. The standard CCDW course isn't even put on by law enforcement agencies, it's put on by private individuals. Although it's standardized by DOCJT.

With all due respect, I'll disagree with you and say firearms training should be kept the way it is, through private individuals and organizations.


I agree. I don't know if agencies will have the manpower to do this. However I also know there's good civilian instructors in KY too. You might want to look around to see who's offering the CCDW class to see if they're available for personal training beyond the scope of the regular class.


ETA: CPR and CCDW. That's not even comparing apples and oranges - that's more like comparing apples and statues of dolphins.


I disagree. They're both potentially life saving tools to have in the box. But to each their own.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 1:27:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:


I disagree. They're both potentially life saving tools to have in the box. But to each their own.
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
Originally Posted By geekz0r:
Originally Posted By hillbillygoat:
Many agencies are short handed enough as is, and probably don't have the time or funds for this. The standard CCDW course isn't even put on by law enforcement agencies, it's put on by private individuals. Although it's standardized by DOCJT.

With all due respect, I'll disagree with you and say firearms training should be kept the way it is, through private individuals and organizations.


I agree. I don't know if agencies will have the manpower to do this. However I also know there's good civilian instructors in KY too. You might want to look around to see who's offering the CCDW class to see if they're available for personal training beyond the scope of the regular class.


ETA: CPR and CCDW. That's not even comparing apples and oranges - that's more like comparing apples and statues of dolphins.


I disagree. They're both potentially life saving tools to have in the box. But to each their own.


I don't think anybody here disagrees with that last part, but getting the Sheriff's dept. involved is not a good idea. I am all for people getting training and plenty of it. One of the best instructors anywhere lives in Florence. His name is Joe Kalil. Joe is an airline pilot and retired Army combat pilot. He is an instructor for the Federal Air Marshals program. He is qualified to teach anything there is to teach about guns. Joe is one of those instructors that don't exist in Boone Co. Joe runs "Defensive Handgun Training". Here is a link to his website: http://www.defensivehandguntraining.com/about/

I doubt any of this matters much. The liability issue alone would probably keep Sheriff Helmig from wanting to get involved in anything like you suggest. My guess is that he will politely decline your suggestion.

Link Posted: 6/16/2016 9:11:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By softpoint:
I don't think anybody here disagrees with that last part, but getting the Sheriff's dept. involved is not a good idea. I am all for people getting training and plenty of it. One of the best instructors anywhere lives in Florence. His name is Joe Kalil. Joe is an airline pilot and retired Army combat pilot. He is an instructor for the Federal Air Marshals program. He is qualified to teach anything there is to teach about guns. Joe is one of those instructors that don't exist in Boone Co. Joe runs "Defensive Handgun Training". Here is a link to his website: http://www.defensivehandguntraining.com/about/
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I have taken a few courses with Joe and strongly agree, he is an excellent local instructor. Joe is also an elected JOP and does a lot of work in the area building relationships with all 3 counties (Boone, Kenton and Campbell) Sheriffs. The only "issue" per say with Joe's classes is that because he has a full time day job as a pilot plus a family life, his courses are only available on a limited basis and fill up very quickly.

Also keep in mind, we are not too far away from one of the nations best training facilities, Tactical Defense Institute. Not an inexpensive place to go but you will not find better training anywhere.

As far as having the Sheriff offer courses? I really don't have much of an opinion one way or the other on that particular issue but IMO, what we really need in this area isn't more training options, its more options for places to train.

You can take all the classes you want but if you don't have a place to practice what you've learned, that training goes to waste. Right now, unless you have private property to shoot on, there is no place to practice defense shooting in this area.

We desperately need a good outdoor range in N-KY, Particularly a place with shooting bays where individuals can practice defensive shooting and run drills with a pistol, shotgun and/or rifle. Without that IMO, I see little need for additional training classes.

Link Posted: 6/16/2016 9:14:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By airgunner:

I have taken a few courses with Joe and strongly agree, he is an excellent local instructor. Joe is also an elected JOP and does a lot of work in the area building relationships with all 3 counties (Boone, Kenton and Campbell) Sheriffs. The only "issue" per say with Joe's classes is that because he has a full time day job as a pilot plus a family life, his courses are only available on a limited basis and fill up very quickly.

Also keep in mind, we are not too far away from one of the nations best training facilities, Tactical Defense Institute. Not an inexpensive place to go but you will not find better training anywhere.

As far as having the Sheriff offer courses? I really don't have much of an opinion one way or the other on that particular issue but IMO, what we really need in this area isn't more training options, its more options for places to train.

You can take all the classes you want but if you don't have a place to practice what you've learned, that training goes to waste. Right now, unless you have private property to shoot on, there is no place to practice defense shooting in this area.

We desperately need a good outdoor range in N-KY, Particularly a place with shooting bays where individuals can practice defensive shooting and run drills with a pistol, shotgun and/or rifle. Without that IMO, I see little need for additional training classes.

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Originally Posted By airgunner:
Originally Posted By softpoint:
I don't think anybody here disagrees with that last part, but getting the Sheriff's dept. involved is not a good idea. I am all for people getting training and plenty of it. One of the best instructors anywhere lives in Florence. His name is Joe Kalil. Joe is an airline pilot and retired Army combat pilot. He is an instructor for the Federal Air Marshals program. He is qualified to teach anything there is to teach about guns. Joe is one of those instructors that don't exist in Boone Co. Joe runs "Defensive Handgun Training". Here is a link to his website: http://www.defensivehandguntraining.com/about/

I have taken a few courses with Joe and strongly agree, he is an excellent local instructor. Joe is also an elected JOP and does a lot of work in the area building relationships with all 3 counties (Boone, Kenton and Campbell) Sheriffs. The only "issue" per say with Joe's classes is that because he has a full time day job as a pilot plus a family life, his courses are only available on a limited basis and fill up very quickly.

Also keep in mind, we are not too far away from one of the nations best training facilities, Tactical Defense Institute. Not an inexpensive place to go but you will not find better training anywhere.

As far as having the Sheriff offer courses? I really don't have much of an opinion one way or the other on that particular issue but IMO, what we really need in this area isn't more training options, its more options for places to train.

You can take all the classes you want but if you don't have a place to practice what you've learned, that training goes to waste. Right now, unless you have private property to shoot on, there is no place to practice defense shooting in this area.

We desperately need a good outdoor range in N-KY, Particularly a place with shooting bays where individuals can practice defensive shooting and run drills with a pistol, shotgun and/or rifle. Without that IMO, I see little need for additional training classes.



The bold is the big reason I think using the Sheriff's would be a good idea. I can only assume they have shoot houses and stuff the swat teams use to train, so it's already there. I'll look into Joe Kalil though, I've searched for people in Boone county in the past and not had any luck, the closes I could find was out in Ohio, and I hate going over there.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 9:30:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
The bold is the big reason I think using the Sheriff's would be a good idea. I can only assume they have shoot houses and stuff the swat teams use to train, so it's already there. I'll look into Joe Kalil though, I've searched for people in Boone county in the past and not had any luck, the closes I could find was out in Ohio, and I hate going over there.
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I can tell you right now, that won't happen. I contacted them years ago and asked if they are a faculty and if so, would they make it open to the public and was told flat out NO!
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 9:34:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By airgunner:

I can tell you right now, that won't happen. I contacted them years ago and asked if they are a faculty and if so, would they make it open to the public and was told flat out NO!
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Originally Posted By airgunner:
Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
The bold is the big reason I think using the Sheriff's would be a good idea. I can only assume they have shoot houses and stuff the swat teams use to train, so it's already there. I'll look into Joe Kalil though, I've searched for people in Boone county in the past and not had any luck, the closes I could find was out in Ohio, and I hate going over there.

I can tell you right now, that won't happen. I contacted them years ago and asked if they are a faculty and if so, would they make it open to the public and was told flat out NO!


I figured it was a long shot, I don't even really expect to get a response back. I think Helmig likes to look more pro-gun than he really is, but I don't know him well enough to know for sure.
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 12:48:32 PM EDT
There are plenty of places that teach advanced shooting courses. TDI and TIG are both near Cincinnati and do a fantastic job taking shooters to the next level beyond the basic ccw class.
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 4:08:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
There are plenty of places that teach advanced shooting courses. TDI and TIG are both near Cincinnati and do a fantastic job taking shooters to the next level beyond the basic ccw class.
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I spent last Friday, Saturday and Sunday at TDI. The instruction was top notch.



Link Posted: 6/20/2016 6:13:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By APEMANWITHFERALDOG:
I spent last Friday, Saturday and Sunday at TDI. The instruction was top notch.
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Originally Posted By APEMANWITHFERALDOG:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
There are plenty of places that teach advanced shooting courses. TDI and TIG are both near Cincinnati and do a fantastic job taking shooters to the next level beyond the basic ccw class.
I spent last Friday, Saturday and Sunday at TDI. The instruction was top notch.


Glad that it was good for you. You were excited about it when I saw you last month.

Did you find a belt? Which one?
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 2:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2016 2:36:31 PM EDT by APEMANWITHFERALDOG]
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Originally Posted By masfonos:


Glad that it was good for you. You were excited about it when I saw you last month.

Did you find a belt? Which one?
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Originally Posted By masfonos:
Originally Posted By APEMANWITHFERALDOG:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
There are plenty of places that teach advanced shooting courses. TDI and TIG are both near Cincinnati and do a fantastic job taking shooters to the next level beyond the basic ccw class.
I spent last Friday, Saturday and Sunday at TDI. The instruction was top notch.


Glad that it was good for you. You were excited about it when I saw you last month.

Did you find a belt? Which one?
I ended up getting a two piece set from DSG. The thin inner belt is secure enough to old up my pants even without a real buckle. The outer belt is compact and everything is locked in place with the velcro between the two. It worked great.

https://dsgarms.com/ktdsgbc
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