This state just makes me shake my head more and more.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - This state just makes me shake my head more and more.

Posted: 6/2/2009 4:12:53 PM EDT

So, it's garden season, and with that comes the rabbits. I was going to play nice with the bunnies this year and let them do their thing as long as they left my garden alone. Well today they declared war!!! They ate both my bush bean plants.

So off to the local Gander mountain to buy a pellet gun (damn, their much more expensive then the last time I bought one in the mid 1990's). I find a nice Ruger .177 cal that will get to 1000fps, the perfect rabbit killer.

Go to the gun counter, ask them to get the PELLET GUN, and he does, then comes back and hands me a pen and a 4473 form. I was dumbfounded to say the least. I ask what was up, I thought I just had to show a FOID like when you buy ammo? Come to find out that in IL anything that shoot a projectile at over 700FPS is a FIREARM and has to have a 4473, a NCIC call, and a 24hr waiting period.

Are we really afraid of someone buying a pellet gun then going on a spree killing with it? Do we really need a cooling off period for a pellet gun?

I hate this state, just wanted to share yet another reason why.

Posted: 6/2/2009 4:40:54 PM EDT

[#1]

Uhmmm...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/firearm:

fire·arm (frärm)
n.
A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant.

So an air rifle is a firearm? Which means you can't discharge it in a populated area? WTF?

Posted: 6/2/2009 5:27:17 PM EDT

[#2]

never heard of that

Posted: 6/2/2009 5:47:16 PM EDT

[#3]

What is the definition of a firearm according to the FOID Act?
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
(2) any device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

Been on the books since 2007
http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Posted: 6/2/2009 10:53:43 PM EDT

[#4]

Yeah... I knew that. I just could not remember what the cut off was on velocity!

If you want to borrow my sons Jack Russel... he will tear up some rabbits or pesty small children if you like.

Posted: 6/3/2009 4:54:45 AM EDT

[#5]

isn't .177 < .18 and, therefore, not a firearm?

Posted: 6/3/2009 5:43:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
isn't .177 < .18 and, therefore, not a firearm?

To be excluded from being a "firearm" it must also have a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 fps.

Posted: 6/3/2009 6:22:13 AM EDT

[#7]

Interesting. I bought a Remington pellet rifle a few weeks ago for my sons birthday. I went to Sports Authority, took it off the shelf, went to the counter and bought it. No 4473, no FOID, no questions........hmmmmmm.

Posted: 6/3/2009 6:53:57 AM EDT

[#8]

Go to the Gander Mountain in Kenosha, no worries then.

In '05 I bought a .50 cal air rifle from Pyramid Air just because we still can before someone in Springfield makes them illegal or restricted; I guess I was correct in worrying.

Posted: 6/3/2009 12:15:08 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
isn't .177 < .18 and, therefore, not a firearm?

To be excluded from being a "firearm" it must also have a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 fps.

Yeah, read it carefully. Laws such as this are worded to be confusing to regular people and always have lots of double negatives or twisted logic.

As a programmer I find it helps me understand a law and what is and is not legal by translating the confusing verbage into a simple program.

int projectile = .177;
int mv = 1000;
boolean nonFirearmBBGun = null;

if ((projectile <= .18) && (MV <= 700 fps))
{
nonFirearmBBGun = true;
}
else
{
nonFirearmBBGun = false;
}

As you can see its the && that gets you, if it were an || you would be GTG for any muzzle velocity on a .177 pellet rifle. Nerdy, yes but it works for me

.

Posted: 6/3/2009 7:21:19 PM EDT

[#10]

Wow.....My firearm count just went up then !

Posted: 6/4/2009 3:52:06 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:hands me a pen and a 4473 form. I was dumbfounded to say the least. I ask what was up, I thought I just had to show a FOID like when you buy ammo? Come to find out that in IL anything that shoot a projectile at over 700FPS is a FIREARM and has to have a 4473, a NCIC call, and a 24hr waiting period.

I've been there, I have a Diana 36 in .22.

The 4473 is not needed.
There's no reason to fill it in.

The 4473 is a federal form, and federally, it's not a firearm.

And yes, it's another reason to feed the lobbyists.

Posted: 6/11/2009 3:53:11 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Are we really afraid of someone buying a pellet gun then going on a spree killing with it? Do we really need a cooling off period for a pellet gun?

WARNING:

Transportation laws apply to said gun or, for instance, any .22 caliber pellet pistols. It's just like it was a real rifle.

John

Posted: 6/11/2009 4:24:16 PM EDT

[#13]

Buy it at cabelas in Hammond. These laws are just plain out stupid.

Posted: 6/11/2009 11:10:16 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
isn't .177 < .18 and, therefore, not a firearm?

To be excluded from being a "firearm" it must also have a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 fps.

Yeah, read it carefully. Laws such as this are worded to be confusing to regular people and always have lots of double negatives or twisted logic.

As a programmer I find it helps me understand a law and what is and is not legal by translating the confusing verbage into a simple program.

int projectile = .177;
int mv = 1000;
boolean nonFirearmBBGun = null;

if ((projectile <= .18) && (MV <= 700 fps))
{
nonFirearmBBGun = true;
}
else
{
nonFirearmBBGun = false;
}

As you can see its the && that gets you, if it were an || you would be GTG for any muzzle velocity on a .177 pellet rifle. Nerdy, yes but it works for me

.

class bullshitIllinoisGunLaws
{

private const double CALIBER_LIMIT = .18;
private const double MUZZLE_VEL_LIMIT = 700.0;

public static void main(String args[])
{
double codysRugerCaliber = .177;
double codysRugerMV = 1000.0;

if (isItAGunInIllinois(codysRugerCaliber, codysRugerMV))
System.out.println("Fill out the 4473 for the dummy at Gander Mountain");

}

public static boolean isItAGunInIllinois(double caliber, double muzzleVelocity)
{
boolean isItAGun = true;
if (caliber < CALIBER_LIMIT && muzzleVelocity < MUZZLE_VEL_LIMIT)
isItAGun = false;
return isItAGun;
}

}

I think that will compile.

Posted: 6/12/2009 9:31:28 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
isn't .177 < .18 and, therefore, not a firearm?

To be excluded from being a "firearm" it must also have a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 fps.

Its a very poorly worded phrase.

I have been told that it is supposed to mean it has to be both > .18" caliber and >700 FPS to be a firearm.

How you can parse that phrase to get to that idea is something else.

Posted: 6/12/2009 11:19:56 AM EDT

[#16]

It's clear. If it's .177 and under the speed limit, it's not a firearm.

If it's larger, or faster, it's a firearm.

The problem is that we let THEM decide what inalienable firearms we can have. Not what decisions they make.

Posted: 6/12/2009 1:58:53 PM EDT

[#17]

Cabelas in Hammond is what I would do as well. It sometimes sucks to live in Illinois.

RWW

Posted: 6/12/2009 2:31:39 PM EDT

[#18]

Just order one though the internet.

Posted: 6/12/2009 4:06:40 PM EDT

[#19]

Posted: 6/13/2009 5:11:12 PM EDT

[#20]

The 4473 is a federal form. What exactly is the ATF going to do with a 4473 for a pellet gun as it would not fit the definition of any firearm under federal law?

Posted: 6/15/2009 2:41:00 PM EDT

[#21]

Crazy!

Posted: 6/15/2009 5:07:36 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

The 4473 is a federal form. What exactly is the ATF going to do with a 4473 for a pellet gun as it would not fit the definition of any firearm under federal law?

Since the state says it's a firearm, you have to do all the paper work including the 4473. Remember, the State can get a subpoena for the records (4473) if it ever came up in a case.

Posted: 6/17/2009 9:43:26 AM EDT

[#23]

Do they call in a NICS check on such air guns. Is there a waiting period?

"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

The term "single globular projectile" would seem to indicate that NO pellet guns are excluded from being firearms, thus all pellet guns are firearms. Only BB guns can be excluded.

Posted: 6/17/2009 11:15:24 AM EDT

[#24]

more on another forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5689007#post5689007

Posted: 6/17/2009 12:47:13 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Do they call in a NICS check on such air guns. Is there a waiting period?

"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

The term "single globular projectile" would seem to indicate that NO pellet guns are excluded from being firearms, thus all pellet guns are firearms. Only BB guns can be excluded.

Yes to the NICS and Yes to the waiting period.

Posted: 6/17/2009 3:34:47 PM EDT

[#26]

I tried to construct a quick program like that concerning our state...

But if I ever had the terms "ILLINOIS" and "GUN" in the same program I got

LOGIC ERROR: UNABLE TO DIVIDE BY 0

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - This state just makes me shake my head more and more.

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