Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 1/22/2011 2:06:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2011 2:19:04 PM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 2:57:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dog1:
Real estate agent Linda Cobb Smith was showing a vacant two-story house near Borden to a couple planning to move from Michigan when the woman client yelled what Smith described as “this blood-curdling scream.”

“Oh my God, someone is in the closet,” Smith quoted the woman as saying.

Smith and her clients quickly ran downstairs and out the door, and Smith called police on her cell phone.

Responding officers who began searching the house noticed a window had been tampered with. When they opened the door of an upstairs bedroom, they encountered “an unshaved white male” standing about six feet away with his hands behind his back, according to a police report of Monday’s incident.

Clark County Sheriff’s Deputy Robert O’Keefe aimed his service weapon at the man and ordered him to show his hands. When the man did, the report said, he turned out to be holding a semi-automatic handgun, which he placed on the floor when ordered by O’Keefe.

The suspect, Jeffrey Lynn Herzog, 54, was charged Friday in Clark County Superior Court 1 with illegal residential entry and carrying a handgun without a license in connection with Monday’s incident and with burglary for allegedly breaking into his father’s house on Jan. 2 and taking his father’s handgun.

A $10,000 cash bond was set for Herzog, said Clark County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Jeremy Mull, who said it appears from the police investigation that Herzog has mental problems.

Herzog’s father, Norman Herzog, who lives across the street from the house where Jeffrey Herzog was found, said his son was recently in a Kansas mental institution but returned to this area in December, according to the police report. Norman Herzog also told police that he’s afraid of his son’s “violent tendencies.”

The father didn’t answer a telephone call to his home Friday.

Mull said a public defender was appointed by the court to represent Jeffrey Herzog.

Smith said she feels bad “because of the situation.” She declined to put the couple who went with her to the vacant house in touch with a reporter but said they’re still seeking her help in finding a place to live.


We saw this guy, walking the road on Dec 30th at 9pm, on a dead end road. When we passed him, he made a point to turn his head..he was acting weird.

I called the police...they never came by the house.

A buddy that lives in the same neighborhood and I went out looking to see we could located where he was, but by the time we got back out, he was gone. We now know he was holed up in the house that was for sale.

His parents live 2 houses over from me.

I guess he was holing up during the day and going out at night, if he needed to.



Way to keep an eye out Dog1...Fortunatly no one was hurt..the cops need to start taking these calls more seriuosly or we are going to have one "incedent" after another like the one in Arizona..And the more of those we have the greater odds of US losing our rights!!
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 3:44:28 PM EDT
OP, looks like a new (better) neighborhood is in order for you.
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 4:03:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 4:06:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 4:09:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:27:05 PM EDT
Why do I carry? Because crazy people are so fucking random.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 6:14:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 7:40:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
Why do I carry? Because crazy people are so fucking random.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Big +1 on that! Glad everybody is O.K.
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 8:07:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2011 8:09:00 PM EDT by buckfever34]
Link Posted: 1/23/2011 6:37:22 PM EDT
Big +1 for situational awareness. Hopefully the local PD will have an "I told you so" moment....if they ever realize that you called in the first place.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FKERHEAD:
Originally Posted By Dog1:
Real estate agent Linda Cobb Smith was showing a vacant two-story house near Borden to a couple planning to move from Michigan when the woman client yelled what Smith described as “this blood-curdling scream.”

“Oh my God, someone is in the closet,” Smith quoted the woman as saying.

Smith and her clients quickly ran downstairs and out the door, and Smith called police on her cell phone.

Responding officers who began searching the house noticed a window had been tampered with. When they opened the door of an upstairs bedroom, they encountered “an unshaved white male” standing about six feet away with his hands behind his back, according to a police report of Monday’s incident.

Clark County Sheriff’s Deputy Robert O’Keefe aimed his service weapon at the man and ordered him to show his hands. When the man did, the report said, he turned out to be holding a semi-automatic handgun, which he placed on the floor when ordered by O’Keefe.

The suspect, Jeffrey Lynn Herzog, 54, was charged Friday in Clark County Superior Court 1 with illegal residential entry and carrying a handgun without a license in connection with Monday’s incident and with burglary for allegedly breaking into his father’s house on Jan. 2 and taking his father’s handgun.

A $10,000 cash bond was set for Herzog, said Clark County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Jeremy Mull, who said it appears from the police investigation that Herzog has mental problems.

Herzog’s father, Norman Herzog, who lives across the street from the house where Jeffrey Herzog was found, said his son was recently in a Kansas mental institution but returned to this area in December, according to the police report. Norman Herzog also told police that he’s afraid of his son’s “violent tendencies.”

The father didn’t answer a telephone call to his home Friday.

Mull said a public defender was appointed by the court to represent Jeffrey Herzog.

Smith said she feels bad “because of the situation.” She declined to put the couple who went with her to the vacant house in touch with a reporter but said they’re still seeking her help in finding a place to live.


We saw this guy, walking the road on Dec 30th at 9pm, on a dead end road. When we passed him, he made a point to turn his head..he was acting weird.

I called the police...they never came by the house.

A buddy that lives in the same neighborhood and I went out looking to see we could located where he was, but by the time we got back out, he was gone. We now know he was holed up in the house that was for sale.

His parents live 2 houses over from me.

I guess he was holing up during the day and going out at night, if he needed to.



Way to keep an eye out Dog1...Fortunatly no one was hurt..the cops need to start taking these calls more seriuosly or we are going to have one "incedent" after another like the one in Arizona..And the more of those we have the greater odds of US losing our rights!!


I can't speak for the department in your area but don't jump to conclusions. If you think that nobody even came by then you need to make the commander aware of it as it needs to be addressed. Don't be surprised to find that a unit was dispatched and checked the area and you just didn't see them. If I'm sent to a suspicious person call, especially if they are described as looking "crazy", I don't roll down the street with my lights on. I park a ways away and walk in, sneaking in the shadows. Far more likely to spot him first that way and observe whatever behavior the caller felt was suspicious and take it from there.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:52:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 1:57:08 PM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:34:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 2:40:59 PM EDT by Altair]
Originally Posted By Dog1:
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By FKERHEAD:
Originally Posted By Dog1:
Real estate agent Linda Cobb Smith was showing a vacant two-story house near Borden to a couple planning to move from Michigan when the woman client yelled what Smith described as “this blood-curdling scream.”

“Oh my God, someone is in the closet,” Smith quoted the woman as saying.

Smith and her clients quickly ran downstairs and out the door, and Smith called police on her cell phone.

Responding officers who began searching the house noticed a window had been tampered with. When they opened the door of an upstairs bedroom, they encountered “an unshaved white male” standing about six feet away with his hands behind his back, according to a police report of Monday’s incident.

Clark County Sheriff’s Deputy Robert O’Keefe aimed his service weapon at the man and ordered him to show his hands. When the man did, the report said, he turned out to be holding a semi-automatic handgun, which he placed on the floor when ordered by O’Keefe.

The suspect, Jeffrey Lynn Herzog, 54, was charged Friday in Clark County Superior Court 1 with illegal residential entry and carrying a handgun without a license in connection with Monday’s incident and with burglary for allegedly breaking into his father’s house on Jan. 2 and taking his father’s handgun.

A $10,000 cash bond was set for Herzog, said Clark County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Jeremy Mull, who said it appears from the police investigation that Herzog has mental problems.

Herzog’s father, Norman Herzog, who lives across the street from the house where Jeffrey Herzog was found, said his son was recently in a Kansas mental institution but returned to this area in December, according to the police report. Norman Herzog also told police that he’s afraid of his son’s “violent tendencies.”

The father didn’t answer a telephone call to his home Friday.

Mull said a public defender was appointed by the court to represent Jeffrey Herzog.

Smith said she feels bad “because of the situation.” She declined to put the couple who went with her to the vacant house in touch with a reporter but said they’re still seeking her help in finding a place to live.


We saw this guy, walking the road on Dec 30th at 9pm, on a dead end road. When we passed him, he made a point to turn his head..he was acting weird.

I called the police...they never came by the house.

A buddy that lives in the same neighborhood and I went out looking to see we could located where he was, but by the time we got back out, he was gone. We now know he was holed up in the house that was for sale.

His parents live 2 houses over from me.

I guess he was holing up during the day and going out at night, if he needed to.



Way to keep an eye out Dog1...Fortunatly no one was hurt..the cops need to start taking these calls more seriuosly or we are going to have one "incedent" after another like the one in Arizona..And the more of those we have the greater odds of US losing our rights!!


I can't speak for the department in your area but don't jump to conclusions. If you think that nobody even came by then you need to make the commander aware of it as it needs to be addressed. Don't be surprised to find that a unit was dispatched and checked the area and you just didn't see them. If I'm sent to a suspicious person call, especially if they are described as looking "crazy", I don't roll down the street with my lights on. I park a ways away and walk in, sneaking in the shadows. Far more likely to spot him first that way and observe whatever behavior the caller felt was suspicious and take it from there.



Well, I was out in the neighborhood looking for the guy for a good 45min to an hour. Never saw a unit. I was also told by dispatch that the unit would come by my house, so I could show him where we saw him. I told my wife when I hung up the cell phone, I don't think they will be here anytime soon.

I was up until midnight...so they either rolled through, 4-5 hours later or never came.

Trust me, my past experience working in LE has taught me not to put too much faith in LE. I also know how to respond to a call. I did not except them to roll Code 3 or dispatch all units.

However, one would think that a unit would have come.....

It's the reason I carry every day. As Citizens, we are truly on our own.


If this is true in your area then your department leaves alot to be desired. I still say that if you really think no unit ever came you need to let the department know about it. I know my department takes that very seriously and they should. Any Officer interested in what is going on in his area of responsibility needs to listen to the residents in that area. We need the eyes and ears of the public to be affective.

What is your experience working in LE?

ETA: I wanted to be clear that I, in no way, meant for that to imply that you shouldn't carry. I am a supporter of citizens taking the initiative to protect themselves and have been since long before becoming an Officer. I just can't imagine living in an area where you couldn't count on your local Police department. I've never lived in such a place.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:51:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 5:09:54 PM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 5:29:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dog1:


I did not have to complain..all of my neighbors already beat me to it.

After the story came out in the paper people found out that I had called the police and no one came, they bombarded the Sheriff with questions about why no one came.

I'm glad to hear it. Unfortunately, that is sometimes the only way to get things to change.


There was no reason given, why a officer never made it. Couple the lack of uniformed patrols with a pissing contest between the Sheriff and the Chief of Borden Police, we get caught in the middle.

Borden is a small town that I'm technically in, but is about 5 minutes down the road. The Sheriff will not allow the Borden Police to make runs out here, even though they are closer that most patrol units are. Borden has 2 paid officers and either 3 or 4 partime/reserves. There is always 2 on duty.



There is absolutely no good reason for the jurisdictional pissing match bullshit. When I hear about that stuff it pisses me off. I'm so glad we don't have that nonsense here. It is always more difficult logistically working with people under another chain of command but when shit happens I'll take help from anyone, I don't care what department they work for. We have a very good working relationship with our county guys and I am on calls with them frequently. This Thanksgiving we had a stabbing/shooting call just out of city limits and nobody needed permission to go just because it was in county jurisdiction. I was the first on scene for that one.

I'm on a mid-sized city department and out county department is larger than average. We have anywhere from 12-18 Officers and the county will have 5-6 at any given time and we have a standing mutual aid relationship. Same is true with the other city department (6-8 at any given time) and the University department (4-6 at any given time) so there is quite a bit of LE presence in this county.

If your Sheriff is the problem, perhaps it is time to vote him out...




It's not that we make alot of calls to the police from here. Only in the Spring, when we are running the trespassers off of our lake up here that we own. Mostly illegals that come here, thinking it's a free lake to fish. Our proximity to Deam's Lake, a DNR park, sometimes we get people looking to do some free fishing.

All I can say is, that I spent alot of time out there that night, trying to find this fucker and stayed up late because I was told an officer was coming by to get more info and find out where the person was last seen. If I had, had a inkling that he was holed up in the empty house for sale, I would have relayed that info to dispatch. But to be honest, he disappeared so fast, that we figured that he took off through the woods.

Our county is 375sq miles and at night there maybe only 2-3 uniformed patrols on duty. I don't know how many reserves are on at given time. I'm only talking about paid officers.

As for experience in LE-8 months corrections, 1.5yrs uniformed patrol. Then I got a better offer in the private sector and moved on.


I'm not trying to intentionally bash the police, it's just that I'm a bit jaded by my experiences in and out of the profession.


From what you are describing, I certainly understand your frustration. Any idea if the Sheriff looked into the situation at all?
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 5:36:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 5:37:49 PM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 12:47:58 AM EDT
Same Sheriff has banned his guys from Clarksville also, political BS.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:22:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:55:22 AM EDT
I have learned here in Indy that it sometimes take follow up several calls. The pop machines next to my shop were broke into 3 times in 10 days. Every time I had video of it happening. Close ups of the person doing it and the plate number of the cars. They did not even bother to respond to the first 2 calls. The third time I chased the pop machines bandits off while in the act. Police took 2 calls and me being very pissed off to get them out there. Talked to a detective a few days later. Gave him the video and have not heard anything yet.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:08:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dog1:
Originally Posted By Peacekeeper3073:
Same Sheriff has banned his guys from Clarksville also, political BS.


I did not know that...I don't understand the territorial pissing contest.


Not sure what the dispute is about this time (this is second time this order came down). The first time it happened few years ago stemmed from a Clarksville Councilman's wife who is also big in Clark County politics getting stopped by a deputy for not wearing a seat belt. She started making calls and the Sheriff bowed to the clan and the deputies were banned from the town.

Aren't politicians great!

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:32:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-50:
I have learned here in Indy that it sometimes take follow up several calls. The pop machines next to my shop were broke into 3 times in 10 days. Every time I had video of it happening. Close ups of the person doing it and the plate number of the cars. They did not even bother to respond to the first 2 calls. The third time I chased the pop machines bandits off while in the act. Police took 2 calls and me being very pissed off to get them out there. Talked to a detective a few days later. Gave him the video and have not heard anything yet.


That does sound frustrating. I understand that follow up and using investigative resources on something like breaking into a pop machine is unlikely at a department the size of IMPD. Just too many more serious crimes taking place and not enough resources to go around. We even deal with it on a smaller level here. People think we should dust for prints and swab for DNA when they had $50 worth of CD's and loose change stolen from their car. We simply can't afford to in terms of manpower and the cost of such testing. Obviously your situation isn't the same, and would get a fair amount of attention at my Department but we are much smaller than IMPD. That said, if you have face shots and plate numbers that is pretty easy to at least attempt some follow up even at the patrol level.

I've dealt with several large Departments (Chicago and Gary being the worst two) and it is difficult dealing with the bureaucratic nonsense that goes along with such large organizations. There are lots of good people there, but wading through the red tape to get to them is often difficult. Not getting someone out after calling, however, is inexcusable. It may take a while if something serious is going on, but somebody should be out to at least document the incident and show that the Police care and will respond. Not doing so is an open invitation for additional criminal activity.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:25:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:26:20 AM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:14:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Altair:
I just can't imagine living in an area where you couldn't count on your local Police department.


Absolutely appreciate your service, your opinion, and your optimism...however:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
I called the police...they never came by the house. .



Originally Posted By Altair:
There is absolutely no good reason for the jurisdictional pissing match bullshit..



Originally Posted By Peacekeeper3073:
Not sure what the dispute is about this time (this is second time this order came down)..



Originally Posted By Peacekeeper3073:
Aren't politicians great! .



Originally Posted By AR-50:
I have learned here in Indy that it sometimes take follow up several calls. .



Which brings us to the moral of the story:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
It's the reason I carry every day. As Citizens, we are truly on our own.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:04:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 6:07:00 AM EDT by Altair]
Originally Posted By boljr01:

Which brings us to the moral of the story:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
It's the reason I carry every day. As Citizens, we are truly on our own.




You will hear no argument from me about this. I don't care how well staffed and professional your local department is, there is no truer statement than "When seconds count, the Police are minutes away." We simply can't be everywhere all the time and it would be foolish not to take some responsibility for your own personal safety.

I encourage my friends and family to carry. If I believe it is the right thing to do for them, it would be hypocritical for me to think everyone else shouldn't carry. It is just the smart thing to do.

ETA: If someone is serious about carrying for defense, I am a big proponent of getting some formal training, as that will make you far more effective and increase your knowledge of the law regarding self defense. I wish there was more good training available around here for that.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 8:45:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By boljr01:

Which brings us to the moral of the story:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
It's the reason I carry every day. As Citizens, we are truly on our own.




ETA: If someone is serious about carrying for defense, I am a big proponent of getting some formal training, as that will make you far more effective and increase your knowledge of the law regarding self defense. I wish there was more good training available around here for that.


Not sure where you're at, but I've found IDPA type matches to help with many facets. Admittedly not formal training but gives folks a chance to improve on: overall skill, mental prep, familiarity with weapon, mag changes, shotting off-hand, weak-hand, functioning under some stress, etc. There are IDPA matches popping up all over at local ranges.
Top Top