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Posted: 1/21/2013 5:33:43 AM EDT
http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/
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A cautionary tale for those hoarding lowers, etc  and flipping them for a huge profit...
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 6:14:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/
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A cautionary tale for those hoarding lowers, etc  and flipping them for a huge profit...


Impossible....  Arfcom told me doing this occasionally was ok ....
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 6:38:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Impossible....  Arfcom told me doing this occasionally was ok ....


What got him under a microscope is that a .50 Barrett he flipped just days later for a $3.5K profit made it in the hands of Mexican drug gang members...
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:51:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Impossible....  Arfcom told me doing this occasionally was ok ....


What got him under a microscope is that a .50 Barrett he flipped just days later for a $3.5K profit made it in the hands of Mexican drug gang members...


if it is not illegal... then getting under a microscope shouldnt be a problem
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 8:04:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Link
Evidence presented during trial revealed that Shipley posted firearms for sale using an Internet website more than 200 times, including multiple postings for many firearms. During that three-and-a-half-year time period, Shipley also purchased at least 54 firearms, then sold at least 51 of those firearms for more than $118,000.

Jurors also found that on four occasions between July 2007 and May 2008, Shipley provided false information on ATF forms 4473 when purchasing firearms at local gun shops stating that he was the actual buyer, when in fact, he was not.

Finally, jurors found that on March 21, 2008, Shipley provided to federal authorities a document—a Dealers’ Firearms Record Book—which Shipley claimed was his only complete and accurate listing of the firearms he bought and sold, knowing that he had another Dealers’ Firearms Record Book which contained a more extensive descriptive and accurate list of firearms he bought and sold.


I wouldn't have voted guilty but I could see how a Jury could be swayed that way.

He sold 51 guns over 3.5 years (1.2 month/avg), not exactly a high volume dealer.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 8:08:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
if it is not illegal... then getting under a microscope shouldnt be a problem


Never invite the man into your life.  Few people can claim to have never broken any law.  He kept a record of his acquisitions and dispositions.   They used this record against him.  They built a case that he was dealing without a license and they claimed that his statements on 4473s were false because they claimed he was not purchasing them for himself.  Even though they admitted that there is not a minimum time you must keep a firearm in your personal collection before selling to improve this collection and there is no maximum number of firearms you may sell per year to improve your collection, they claimed a pattern of purchasing and then quickly selling at a higher price.  The fact that he kept a detailed record to show that all proceeds were used to purchase more firearms for his collection was claimed to be irrelevant to the charges.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 8:11:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
if it is not illegal... then getting under a microscope shouldnt be a problem


Never invite the man into your life.  Few people can claim to have never broken any law.  He kept a record of his acquisitions and dispositions.   They used this record against him.  They built a case that he was dealing without a license and they claimed that his statements on 4473s were false because they claimed he was not purchasing them for himself.  Even though they admitted that there is not a minimum time you must keep a firearm in your personal collection before selling to improve this collection and there is no maximum number of firearms you may sell per year to improve your collection, they claimed a pattern of purchasing and then quickly selling at a higher price.  The fact that he kept a detailed record to show that all proceeds were used to purchase more firearms for his collection was claimed to be irrelevant to the charges.


EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA commits several felonies a year.....


remember that next time you hear someone defending felon in possession laws
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 10:02:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/
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A cautionary tale for those hoarding lowers, etc  and flipping them for a huge profit...


Impossible....  Arfcom told me doing this occasionally was ok ....


I think the key is the definition of "occasionally" though the ATF should provide a definition.  During the 6 years from 2003 to 2008 he bought 81 guns and sold 66 guns.   Obviously the juror's and ATF's definition was not that many.  

My personal maximum definition of "occasionally" would be probably buying 5 guns and selling 5 guns per year max which translates to at most buying 30 guns and selling 30 guns over 6 years.  Anything more than that and I'd be worried about a knock on the door from the ATF.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 10:15:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/
.
A cautionary tale for those hoarding lowers, etc  and flipping them for a huge profit...


Impossible....  Arfcom told me doing this occasionally was ok ....


I think the key is the definition of "occasionally" though the ATF should provide a definition.  During the 6 years from 2003 to 2008 he bought 81 guns and sold 66 guns.   Obviously the juror's and ATF's definition was not that many.  

My personal maximum definition of "occasionally" would be probably buying 5 guns and selling 5 guns per year max which translates to at most buying 30 guns and selling 30 guns over 6 years.  Anything more than that and I'd be worried about a knock on the door from the ATF.


They intentionally dont......

"Did you really think we want those laws observed? said Dr. Ferris. We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be
much easier to deal with"


Link Posted: 1/21/2013 12:49:49 PM EDT
[#9]
There was a thread on GD a month or so ago about some guy getting a letter from the ATF telling him to stop dealing.  All because one gun he sold was found in Canada.  Don't know if the thread was legit as it was questionable whether the ATF would send a warning letter.

So yeah, in a sense, you sell one gun in a private sale and if the ATF wanted to, they could say you're 'dealin'.
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