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Posted: 4/29/2011 2:21:45 AM EDT
What does the next Bill need to contain?

* Real Deal Open Carry.

* Campus carry for everyone licensed, school or otherwise imo. IF teachers want to carry, then they can.

* Define Airport carry. Is carry in the airport kosher up until security line or is the entire facility off limits?  What about the parking lot. (I called and asked the Orlando International people onceo n that one and was transferred to a cop that said even concealed carry in the parking lot was illegal)

* Expand the license to cover all lawfully owned weapons rather than just handguns.

* Carry at professional sporting events

* Carry inside Post Office Lobby (this may have federal limitations)

(I would even support carry in bars, several other states have this, as long as you're under the legal driving limit for consumption of alcohol I don't see what the problem is.)
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:32:18 AM EDT
What does the next Bill need to contain?

It needs a Senator who has balls to stick to the original bill.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:36:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ebbtide:
What does the next Bill need to contain?

It needs a Senator who has balls to stick to the original bill.


Ditto
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:31:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 6:32:04 AM EDT by Dogue]
I agree with Hommie on what we need in the next bill.  I think by adding the PO, bars, and airport language it gives them something to negotiate out to stick with OC and Campus Carry.  At this point they could bargain out everything but OC if they could get it passed, then work on campus carry and some other stuff later.  Incrementalism .
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:20:04 AM EDT
It would be better to clay pigeon everything into separate bills.



It would also be better if the rationale for the bill was open rather than a veiled method of keep one from brandishing.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:46:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 1:47:41 PM EDT by Mannlicher]
unless we get rid of some of the idiots in the Senate, nothing will ever come of this.  My Senator, Steve Oelrich, an ex sheriff, was against the bill.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:26:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 2:30:15 PM EDT by America-first]
Don't kid yourself, plenty of the senators who said they supported the open carry bill, as well as the governor,  knew all along that they wouldn't have to vote for it.

That's how it works, a senator who wouldn't be hurt politically by sabotaging the bill is selected to introduce the poison pill amendment.

We may be surprised by last minute machinations, but they never are; everything is hashed out behind closed doors in advance.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:33:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 2:34:35 PM EDT by floridahunter07]
Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
What does the next Bill need to contain?

* Real Deal Open Carry.

* Campus carry for everyone licensed, school or otherwise imo. IF teachers want to carry, then they can.

* Define Airport carry. Is carry in the airport kosher up until security line or is the entire facility off limits?  What about the parking lot. (I called and asked the Orlando International people onceo n that one and was transferred to a cop that said even concealed carry in the parking lot was illegal)

* Expand the license to cover all lawfully owned weapons rather than just handguns.

* Carry at professional sporting events

* Carry inside Post Office Lobby (this may have federal limitations)

(I would even support carry in bars, several other states have this, as long as you're under the legal driving limit for consumption of alcohol I don't see what the problem is.)


Not really a fan of the bar carry with that stipulation. We can already drink in restaurants as long as we aren't in the bar area because unless the gun is in your hand, it does not count as "ready for use" and thus is not illegal. Nor is it illegal to defend yourself after consuming alcohol.

Then again, the only two places in town I'll go to drink are restaurants. All of the regular bars are full of shitbags.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 3:53:36 PM EDT
I'm all for categorical OC, but maybe we need incremental steps.  Maybe we first need a law to state that we can OC on private property w/ permission, not just or own residence/business.  Also, maybe we need to be able to OC in our car so we don't have to get our jacket wrinkly on a hot day.  Also speficically in the law we should be able to OC entering or exiting our car, the non-sterile areas of airports and more public buildings and bars under the limit, but maybe concealed only in bars...

These things woudl have been better that the way we tried to justify it this time by the whole accidental exposure thing.  

But ultimately, free men should be able to bear arms pretty much anywhere any time.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:37:58 PM EDT
Yall are thinking rationally , Rational thinking doesn't exist in Gov. You have to use the LIBERAL way. Go for everything and take a hand out, just like the fishing regulations. Offshore fishing is now over because the liberals never quit. Every year prior they ask for a total fishing ban and they get new limits on fish. NOW they finally got them all , soon there will be no fishing allowed. Bet your bottom they'll get it. Who would have believed 3 years ago that you would not be able to take any grouper, snapper or amber jack in federal waters ??  The lib way is the only way to get anything accomplished.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 12:51:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
What does the next Bill need to contain?

* Real Deal Open Carry.

* Campus carry for everyone licensed, school or otherwise imo. IF teachers want to carry, then they can.

* Define Airport carry. Is carry in the airport kosher up until security line or is the entire facility off limits?  What about the parking lot. (I called and asked the Orlando International people onceo n that one and was transferred to a cop that said even concealed carry in the parking lot was illegal)

* Expand the license to cover all lawfully owned weapons rather than just handguns.



* Carry at professional sporting events

* Carry inside Post Office Lobby (this may have federal limitations)

(I would even support carry in bars, several other states have this, as long as you're under the legal driving limit for consumption of alcohol I don't see what the problem is.)


It is already legal to conceal carry other weapons other then firearms. Florida issues a "Carry Concealed Weapon" Permit. Only thing that cannot be carried right now is machine guns and illegal items like knuckle dusters (brass knuckles) and other items outlawed for ownership. Batons, Knives, Pistols, SBR Rifles, Suppressors, etc are all legal. Machine Guns and other certain items are not.

It is against Federal Law to posses a firearm or weapon within a federal building. Post Offices are part of that. So is the Park Ranger Station and any other public building at Everglades National Park.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 1:04:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 1:36:27 AM EDT by HommieDaKlown]






Originally Posted By SkyntT800:
Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
What does the next Bill need to contain?
* Real Deal Open Carry.
* Campus carry for everyone licensed, school or otherwise imo. IF teachers want to carry, then they can.
* Define Airport carry. Is carry in the airport kosher up until security line or is the entire facility off limits?  What about the parking lot. (I called and asked the Orlando International people onceo n that one and was transferred to a cop that said even concealed carry in the parking lot was illegal)
* Expand the license to cover all lawfully owned weapons rather than just handguns.

* Carry at professional sporting events
* Carry inside Post Office Lobby (this may have federal limitations)
(I would even support carry in bars, several other states have this, as long as you're under the legal driving limit for consumption of alcohol I don't see what the problem is.)

It is already legal to conceal carry other weapons other then firearms. Florida issues a "Carry Concealed Weapon" Permit. Only thing that cannot be carried right now is machine guns and illegal items like knuckle dusters (brass knuckles) and other items outlawed for ownership. Batons, Knives, Pistols, SBR Rifles, Suppressors, etc are all legal. Machine Guns and other certain items are not.
It is against Federal Law to posses a firearm or weapon within a federal building. Post Offices are part of that. So is the Park Ranger Station and any other public building at Everglades National Park.

Machine guns, SBRs SBS, DDs, and AOWs were the intended target of my comments when saying all lawfully owned weapons. The letter of the law seems to exclude rifles, shotguns, SBRs Suppressors, SBSs, DDs, and AOWs by not mentioning them and narrowing the field to just handguns. Unless there is some sort of case law that I'm unaware of. Not a legal scholar.
For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9).

As for Post Office carry, the federal regulation itself is unclear and to my knowledge untested.
US Code Title 18






§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.







(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.







(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.







(d)Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;







(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or







(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other
lawful purposes.







Is state licensed concealed carry for self defense considered a 'lawful purpose' exempt from the restriction by the Federal Government?
 
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:27:32 AM EDT
How about an open carry / campus carry bill that allows open carry and campus carry just like the last one that was sabotaged at the last second by the Republicans; except next time they don't betray us by pulling a last minute flim flam so quickly that it doesn't  give us the ability  to fight back ?

The bill is moving along nicely and it's supporters suddenly crumble like rotten melons and accept a poison amendment without debate.

Not a damn one of them had anything to say or any questions before the amendment was adopted, including the bill's sponsor, but they will all act as if they had clean hands, including the governor.


Really.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:50:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 3:53:25 AM EDT by Hendricks5150]





Originally Posted By Narcoholic:



Yall are thinking rationally , Rational thinking doesn't exist in Gov. You have to use the LIBERAL way. Go for everything and take a hand out, just like the fishing regulations. Offshore fishing is now over because the liberals never quit. Every year prior they ask for a total fishing ban and they get new limits on fish. NOW they finally got them all , soon there will be no fishing allowed. Bet your bottom they'll get it. Who would have believed 3 years ago that you would not be able to take any grouper, snapper or amber jack in federal waters ??  The lib way is the only way to get anything accomplished.



This is how to get what you want. Go crazy and extreme with something, the public/other side freaks out, you say that you're willing to compromise and back off to your original intent (but you don't tell them that it's your original intent), bill gets passed because it's not as ridiculous as it was originally and they will be relieved that "at least it wasn't as absurd as it used to be".





 
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:53:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hendricks5150:

Originally Posted By Narcoholic:
Yall are thinking rationally , Rational thinking doesn't exist in Gov. You have to use the LIBERAL way. Go for everything and take a hand out, just like the fishing regulations. Offshore fishing is now over because the liberals never quit. Every year prior they ask for a total fishing ban and they get new limits on fish. NOW they finally got them all , soon there will be no fishing allowed. Bet your bottom they'll get it. Who would have believed 3 years ago that you would not be able to take any grouper, snapper or amber jack in federal waters ??  The lib way is the only way to get anything accomplished.

This is how to get what you want. Go crazy and extreme with something, the public/other side freaks out, you say that you're willing to compromise and back off to your original intent (but you don't tell them that it's your original intent), bill gets passed because it's not as ridiculous as it was originally and they will be relieved that "at least it wasn't as absurd as it used to be".
 


Think of it like divorce court. Most guys start negotiations at what is fair and what they want, then get taken to the cleaners. Have to start at everything and then negotiate downward, wash rinse repeat. Start demanding the moon and then get something do it all over again next year.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:32:27 AM EDT
1. Work to vote out anyone that didn't support this.

Dockery and Borgadoff to start.

2. Call the NRA and tell them how pissed at them you are for allowing it. Borgandoff said she had support from the NRA to put her Amendment in. She will now be rated A+ by the NRA still, no matter that she killed OC.

3. The next bill should make it damn clear that OC and Campus carry is the goal... Not protection from something that could be easily fixed.

4. Reduce the divide from the "Elmer Fudds" about carrying a weapon, and get the CCW folks to support OC as well. A house divided cannot stand.

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:14:15 AM EDT
The LEOs are afraid of people with guns.  They may give lip service to the Second Amendment but at the end of the day they would love it if they had the firearms and the citizens had none.

The LEOs were against concealed carry, “assault weapons”, and they will be against any kind of open carry.  

The people that make money off the tourists are deathly afraid of open carry and anything that they think will scare the tourists.  

Those are two powerful special interest groups.  These stupid ass elected officials will look for the support of those special interest groups over the rights of a citizen to keep and bear arms any day.

Forget about open carry in Florida.  The LEOs and Disney will never allow it to happen.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:16:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Flash66:
The LEOs are afraid of people with guns.  They may give lip service to the Second Amendment but at the end of the day they would love it if they had the firearms and the citizens had none.

The LEOs were against concealed carry, “assault weapons”, and they will be against any kind of open carry.  

The people that make money off the tourists are deathly afraid of open carry and anything that they think will scare the tourists.  

Those are two powerful special interest groups.  These stupid ass elected officials will look for the support of those special interest groups over the rights of a citizen to keep and bear arms any day.

Forget about open carry in Florida.  The LEOs and Disney will never allow it to happen.


Bingo.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:24:53 AM EDT
Forget about open carry in Florida. The LEOs and Disney will never allow it to happen


Remove the politicians that vote that way and the next set will think twice.

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:50:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:16:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VegasSig:
Originally Posted By SSMdive:
Forget about open carry in Florida. The LEOs and Disney will never allow it to happen


Remove the politicians that vote that way and the next set will think twice.



We have open carry in Nv, and it doesnt hamper tourism a bit.


Quit trying to make sense and use facts.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 1:20:59 AM EDT
What about pushing a constitutional amendment?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 1:27:33 AM EDT
The only non-firearm weapon you can't carry w/ the CWL is a Ballistic Kn*fe.  Which is illegal to carry, own, make, sell etc etc.  I think its a misdemanor to even draw a picture of one.  There is some other law against making or selling slung shots and I think brass knuckles in there, but nothing about being illegal to own or carry (w/o a permit).  

There is a section in the code that states it is a felony to carry a firearm and a misdemenor to carry other weapons, included by name is slung shot, brass knuckles or duster, dirk and I think dagger.  

The cwl is for "hand gun or other weapon"  So it would seem that carrying a SBR or SBS is out.  Maybe not certain AOWs though, since a "smooth bore handgun" is a hand gun and an AR pistol w/ a VFG would be a "handgun w/ a VFG".  Suppressors, dunno.  If they are considered "firearms" by the state of FL then I guess not, cause a suppressor is neither a HG nor LG.  Would like to beable to do that though.  

Also, I think that SB 234 only allows CWL holders to keep their handguns locked in their car in any parking lot where you are a lawful visitor or customer, not just their employers (sans certain exempt places).  That's effed up.  Shouldn't one be allowed to keep a HG in their locked car anywhere* regardless of whether they hold a CWL?  That one will probably have to be challegened on equal protection or something, since no permit is required to keep a firearm in the vehicle.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:53:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Flash66:
The LEOs are afraid of people with guns.  They may give lip service to the Second Amendment but at the end of the day they would love it if they had the firearms and the citizens had none.

The LEOs were against concealed carry, “assault weapons”, and they will be against any kind of open carry.  

The people that make money off the tourists are deathly afraid of open carry and anything that they think will scare the tourists.  

Those are two powerful special interest groups.  These stupid ass elected officials will look for the support of those special interest groups over the rights of a citizen to keep and bear arms any day.

Forget about open carry in Florida.  The LEOs and Disney will never allow it to happen.


Bingo.


Unfortunately, it looks as if  recent events have proven you right.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:40:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 8:45:31 AM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 9:12:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SGB:
Next week Florida Carry will be sending out information to all of our members and friends about a coordinated effort to pass an open carry bill next year.



SGB
Director,
Florida Carry, Inc.
 


This time we need to win the battle before it ever gets to the floor for a vote.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:54:34 PM EDT



Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:


What does the next Bill need to contain?



* Real Deal Open Carry.



* Campus carry for everyone licensed, school or otherwise imo. IF teachers want to carry, then they can.



* Define Airport carry. Is carry in the airport kosher up until security line or is the entire facility off limits?  What about the parking lot. (I called and asked the Orlando International people onceo n that one and was transferred to a cop that said even concealed carry in the parking lot was illegal)



* Expand the license to cover all lawfully owned weapons rather than just handguns.



* Carry at professional sporting events



* Carry inside Post Office Lobby (this may have federal limitations)



(I would even support carry in bars, several other states have this, as long as you're under the legal driving limit for consumption of alcohol I don't see what the problem is.)

It already does as far as I know. Knives of any type, blackjacks, OC, tasers you name it are legal to carry with a permit concealed and all are legal to carry openly without a permit as well





 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:29:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 8:29:26 PM EDT by HommieDaKlown]





Originally Posted By LazarusLong:
Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:


What does the next Bill need to contain?





* Real Deal Open Carry.





* Campus carry for everyone licensed, school or otherwise imo. IF teachers want to carry, then they can.





* Define Airport carry. Is carry in the airport kosher up until security line or is the entire facility off limits?  What about the parking lot. (I called and asked the Orlando International people onceo n that one and was transferred to a cop that said even concealed carry in the parking lot was illegal)





* Expand the license to cover all lawfully owned weapons rather than just handguns.





* Carry at professional sporting events





* Carry inside Post Office Lobby (this may have federal limitations)





(I would even support carry in bars, several other states have this, as long as you're under the legal driving limit for consumption of alcohol I don't see what the problem is.)


It already does as far as I know. Knives of any type, blackjacks, OC, tasers you name it are legal to carry with a permit concealed and all are legal to carry openly without a permit as well





 
Poorly worded on my part. I meant I want the license to cover NFA firearms, rifles, and shotguns.
 
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 9:27:43 AM EDT
OC should reduce crime == reduction in job security for LEOs. This is why they don't want it. I'm actually ok with the idea of an identifying holster mark/tag that couldn't be confused with a badge (small colored pin, hanging "cufflink," et cetera).

The fact is, there are places where you need to carry a full-sized high capacity pistol. The weather in Florida during some months is simply not conducive to wearing clothing that can easily conceal a firearm. I believe that conditions could be met to where flash riots of the intensity of the LA Riots could take place. There are a lot of places in Florida where high density poor areas are within a few blocks of dense high income areas along the coast.
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