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Posted: 5/18/2005 6:40:52 PM EDT
Now THIS pisses me off to no end. Be against Bush, be against Cheney, be against whatever. Just don't short change our guys and gals that are doing their job an need help. Nothing like a big middle finger to put the PTA in perspective.

A Seattle high school bars military solicitation, touching off debate over Iraq war and free speech.



SEATTLE – While most Parent Teacher Student Association meetings might center on finding funding for better math books or the best way to chaperon a school dance, a recent meeting here at Garfield High School grappled with something much larger - the war in Iraq.
The school is perhaps one of the first in the nation to debate and vote against military recruiting on high school campuses - a topic already simmering at the college level. In fact, the Supreme Court recently agreed to decide whether the federal government can withhold funds from colleges that bar military recruiters.

High schools are struggling with a similar issue as the No Child Left Behind Act requires that schools receiving federal funding must release the names of its students to recruiters. Some feel that's an invasion of privacy prompted by a war effort that has largely divided the American public. Others say barring recruiters is an infringement of free speech - and a snub to the military, particularly in a time of war.

Garfield High School took a decisive step last week with a vote of 25 to 5 to adopt a resolution that says "public schools are not a place for military recruiters."

All this comes as recruiters struggle to meet enlistment goals.

Although PTA chapters are supposed to be "nonsectarian and nonpartisan, which means nonpolitical," according to Jenny Sopko, a spokeswoman for the national PTA in Chicago, Garfield's PTSA cochair maintains that its action is "wholly consistent with our mission."

"The mission of the PTA is to protect and defend kids," says Amy Hagopian, a mother of three whose son is a Garfield senior. "It's not just limited to education issues - which explains why the PTA takes positions on kids' health, violence, and other serious issues."

Garfield, with 1,600 students, is one of Seattle's top high schools, routinely producing bumper crops of National Merit Scholars, plus internationally acclaimed student orchestras and jazz bands. It's also racially diverse, with African-American students making up 31 percent of its student population.

Like so many schools today, Garfield grapples with painful budget cuts, loss of teachers, and dwindling resources. The school's opposition to military recruitment seems, in part, a result of parents' growing realization that tax money spent for the Iraq war is money not spent on children's educations or other domestic needs.

"They're spending $4 billion a month in Iraq, but we have to cut our race relations class, which costs $12,500," Ms. Hagopian pointed out. "That's an important class for our kids."

During discussion at the PTSA's meeting last week, Ted Inkley argued against the resolution because he thought it dangerous to deny free speech to organizations simply because their philosophies or intentions disagreed with the PTSA.

Mr. Inkley, an attorney whose daughter is a senior, told the crowded library he could "easily" see a resolution by some other PTA that banned Planned Parenthood representatives from campus because of their views on contraception and abortion.

Steve Ludwig, whose son is a senior and whose daughter will enter as a freshman next fall, made a point shared by many in attendance: Garfield does not allow organizations that promote illegal activities to recruit students to perform those activities, nor does it allow organizations that discriminate on the basis of race, gender, national origin, or sexual orientation to recruit on campus.

"Planned Parenthood, as far as I know, does not advocate or perform illegal acts. The US military does," Mr. Ludwig continued. The soft-spoken carpenter said he would not object if Army representatives came to Garfield to debate their ideas on torture or aggressive war. "What I object to is their coming here to recruit students to perform those acts," he said. "It's not about free speech."

Nationally, there's a growing sense that recruiters desperate to bolster falling enlistment numbers are misrepresenting sign-up agreements to entice recruits. In response to 480 allegations of improprieties by recruiters since Oct. 1, the Army announced it will suspend its recruiting for one day on May 20, so commanders can remind its 7,500 recruiters of proper conduct.

Douglas Smith, a US Army spokesman, said the job of recruiters is not to make promises but to show applicants possibilities and career options.

"As for a recruiter making promises and not following through, the recruiter's not in any position to promise anything. We hope that all our recruiters are communicating honestly with our applicants," Mr. Smith said. But he added, "In the contract [between the new soldier and the Army] it says, 'Anything the recruiter may have promised me is moot.' "

Smith also pointed out the legality of military recruitment activity on campuses. "The No Child Left Behind Act requires schools to let us have access to these students," he says.

Indeed, the resolution by Garfield's PTSA is more symbol than policy, for Seattle, like virtually all school districts, requires high schools to give recruiters access to students - or risk losing federal funding under Section 9528 of the act. School districts also are required to notify parents and students that they may "opt out" by signing a letter preventing recruiters from getting their names.

In response to Garfield's resolution, Seattle's district issued a statement reinforcing its policy of allowing recruiters to work on high school campuses, but also said it would increase efforts next fall to make it easier for parents and students to opt out.

"Nothing in this resolution prevents students desirous of joining the military from doing so," said Sasha Riser-Kositsky, a Garfield sophomore from a written statement during last week's meeting. "Indeed, there is a recruiting center within a five-minute walking distance of Garfield."


Link Posted: 5/18/2005 6:45:25 PM EDT
That's just peachy, as if recruiters don't already have to work their asses off. I had a coworker that was a recruiter in NorCal, he constantly had threats of violence and death from idiotic liberal parents of kids he contacted. Good thing they are the kind and peaceful types, right?
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 6:59:12 PM EDT
Wait...I forget this is the same area as UW. Where students attacked and destroyed a recruiter's table..........
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 6:59:15 PM EDT

"Planned Parenthood, as far as I know, does not advocate or perform illegal acts. The US military does," Mr. Ludwig continued.

I'm sorry.... WHAT?!?!?!?!

You know....I'm not so sure Mr. Ludwig knows what he's talking about... I know that illegal things have been performed by military personnel before... I mean they are human after all... but as far as I can remember from my time of service, doing illegal things could land you in quite a bit more hot water IN the military than OUT of it... but what the hell do I know, I'm not an "educator".
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 6:59:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 7:00:22 PM EDT by Hippynik]

"Nothing in this resolution prevents students desirous of joining the military from doing so,"


No, we are just convincing them that it is a heinous thing to want to do...
I think Starship Troopers should be required reading in high school
for parents and students...
then maybe people will remember what patriotism is and how much better a country is when people believe in it
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 7:02:36 PM EDT
F-##K Garfield High. Cut off their funding and tell them to shove it up their ass. I'm so sick of the moonbeam pricks of Seattle. Sorry, next time I won't SUGAR COAT what I really feel.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 7:13:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
F-##K Garfield High. Cut off their funding and tell them to shove it up their ass. I'm so sick of the moonbeam pricks of Seattle. Sorry, next time I won't SUGAR COAT what I really feel.



+1

I agree. Cut them off! It's just another sign of the sad times that we are living in!
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 7:37:24 PM EDT
Ah the Berkley of Washington rears it's ugly head. Let's hope planned parenthood is next on the chopping block.

Link Posted: 5/18/2005 8:08:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bosifus:
Ah the Berkley of Washington rears it's ugly head. Let's hope planned parenthood is next on the chopping block.
The "PARENTS" of these high school kids are a bunch of 60s hippy losers and should have been "aborted" just like they so FERVISHLY defend.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 8:49:39 PM EDT
his,
On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee.

What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well.

It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert!

These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal.

There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.

The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women.

We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence.

The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain.

Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field.

The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association.

The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA.

I am not a member of the NRA.

I am not a hunter.

I do not even own a gun.

I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death.

Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended.

If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room.

Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves.

"I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!


"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more re strictive laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this out to everyone you can


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Link Posted: 5/18/2005 8:54:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 8:56:50 PM EDT by Spyda]
Now that is embarrassing.

Wish I could'a been there. I have yet to have a anti-war liberal explain a lucid alternative to this war. They suggest we should have quit after Afghanistan. When I ask them if they think the attacks would stop if we had, they mumble and try to aviod the question.

Some suggest we should pull out and stop being the police of the world. When asked if that would halt the reign of terror around the world, they mumble and try to avoid the question.

What happened to the US in the last 60 years? If this was 1945 rather than 2005, Iraq would be considered a great strategic victory. We are in a fight over values, and we have taken our values to the heart of the enemy. The criminal clerics don't fear death, but they fear freedom. Freedom for women's educatation and equality is a dagger in their dark hearts. Now two countries once exporting evil have begun to break the shackles of these oppressive leaders.

Anyone doubting the effectiveness of this policy need only look at the extremes the criminal clerics are going to to stop this movement towards freedom in Iraq. Sunnis are bombing Shiite mosques. Foreign fanatics pour across the border to kill fellow muslims. Barbers are killed for trimming beards. Peaceful workers from around the world are being slaughtered. They are desperate to stop this drive to democracy. We need only to keep our nerve and finish the job.

Until some of these weak willed America hating liberals come up with a better plan to avenge our dead and win this war against criminal clerics, they should sit down and shut up. The loss of power in the 2000/4 elections is not a reason to invite nucular terrorism on our soil. It's shameful.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 10:01:15 PM EDT
Spyda....Take a
Well said sir!
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:12:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Just-ice:
DARRELL SCOTT TESTIMONY
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm?

<<SNIP>>





I'm always nervous about email chain letters, but looks like this one has some validity...

www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/scott.htm
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:57:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
The "PARENTS" of these high school kids are a bunch of 60s hippy losers and should have been "aborted" just like they so FERVISHLY defend.





I LIKE IT!
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 5:38:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 5:39:19 AM EDT by XD_Fan]

Originally Posted By Hippynik:

"Nothing in this resolution prevents students desirous of joining the military from doing so,"


No, we are just convincing them that it is a heinous thing to want to do...
I think Starship Troopers should be required reading in high school
for parents and students...
then maybe people will remember what patriotism is and how much better a country is when people believe in it



+1

Starship troopers is the only SF book I could ever get my Dad to read. He approved of my reading it whole heartedly. Its a real pity that it is now impossible to be a Democrat and a patriot. Real pity is all the kids who believe this bullshit and are helping send this country down the shitter. We have something very special in this country, and it needs to be guarded and protected carefully since everyone else seems to want to see us fail. My vote certainly took on a new meaning after my first deployment. Martial law in the PI was a real eye opener.

As Spyda says , the clerics of islam are vehemently opposed to freedom erupting in their midst. True freedom would and will destroy their control of people. And their fear of this knows no bounds. Witness Zarqwi's recent claim that the killing of innocent people is justified since to avoid doing so would interfere with jihad. Where is the outrage from the rulers of the "Religion of Peace"?

Anyone with half a brain can see the world of 5 years ago is gone. There is no safe place anywhere when the target is everything and everyone. And its only a matter of time before the first bombs go off here. Wonder what will happen to the liberal attitude then? But then its always the government at fault isn't it?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 6:27:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
Originally Posted By bosifus:
Ah the Berkley of Washington rears it's ugly head. Let's hope planned parenthood is next on the chopping block.
The "PARENTS" of these high school kids are a bunch of 60s hippy losers and should have been "aborted" just like they so FERVISHLY defend.



If that were to have happened I for one would not be here raising two children. Both my parents are bleeding heart liberals. Their explanations of things only make sense if you have a feverent desire to be on the dole. I don't bother anymore trying to talk to them about any of this crap since it is like talking to a brick. Funny how this happens though, my parents parents were as conservative as you can get and they all turned out to be hippies. Then my brother and I grow up and are nothing like them politically, ah the cycle of life....

The one thing I do have going though is the attemp to get them to think none of this is worth voting over and how the man is screwing us all. I know I have accomplished something if I can keep them from the voting booth.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:37:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
Originally Posted By bosifus:
Ah the Berkley of Washington rears it's ugly head. Let's hope planned parenthood is next on the chopping block.
The "PARENTS" of these high school kids are a bunch of 60s hippy losers and should have been "aborted" just like they so FERVISHLY defend.



They're just frustrated, because they sold out to the system.

Its things like this that makes me embarrassed to tell people I'm from Seattle when I'm out of state.

How many of you can remember the victory parade we had for the troops from Desert Storm?

-Frnak
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 9:28:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
F-##K Garfield High. Cut off their funding and tell them to shove it up their ass. I'm so sick of the moonbeam pricks of Seattle. Sorry, next time I won't SUGAR COAT what I really feel.



+1

U gotta remember, they probably voted for your governor also! Isn't that just nice?
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 4:04:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 6:42:16 PM EDT by SAICO]
The "TRIPE" Amy Hagopian was on the cover of yesterday's PI pointing a finger at recruiter, Marine Sgt. Christopher. Her looks reflects her character. What a wretched little beast! Too bad parasites like her will continue to feed off the protection and sacrifices of our soldiers and bite their hands in gratitude.

Link Posted: 5/20/2005 5:33:01 PM EDT
"They're spending $4 billion a month in Iraq, but we have to cut our race relations class, which costs $12,500," Ms. Hagopian pointed out. "That's an important class for our kids."

The kids cant read but we are spending money on this shit?
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:19:52 PM EDT
I saw that Saico,

His expression was priceless. It said, "God I wish you were in Iraq to learn what freedom really means." I'd love to ask her if there was anything she felt that was worth fighting for.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:33:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spyda:
I saw that Saico,

His expression was priceless. It said, "God I wish you were in Iraq to learn what freedom really means." I'd love to ask her if there was anything she felt that was worth fighting for.



Spyda,

I'm sure she's getting plenty of "fan" mail from her notoriety; Washington State's Hanoi Jane.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:37:12 PM EDT
I got as far as "A Seattle..." and didn't need to read any further. IIRC this isn't the first time a HS in Seattle has doen this since the WoT began. F*ck'em.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:53:23 PM EDT
Oddly enough, I started out as lefty as it gets. In 68, I campaigned for Eldridge Cleaver and Cal Winslow! I figured things out about 1 week into boot camp. I don't know exactly why I enlisted, but I'm sure glad I did. I'm grateful for all that I learned in the service. Nowdays I'm about as conservative as they come. I used to own a book that proudly proclaimed Ronald Reagan on their list of 101 worst things. I cried watching his funeral. Open season on liberals: 1 in the bag, 1 in your sights.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:19:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 8:07:42 AM EDT by Fredericksburg]

Originally Posted By Spyda:
Until some of these weak willed America hating liberals come up with a better plan to avenge our dead and win this war against criminal clerics, they should sit down and shut up. The loss of power in the 2000/4 elections is not a reason to invite nucular terrorism on our soil. It's shameful.



How do our efforts in Iraq make us safer from nuclear terrorism?

We should be more concerned about N. Korea and perhaps Iran in that respect.
True that Iraq gives us a strategic base of operations right next door to Iran.
Last time I checked though it was N. Korea who is sabre rattling about actually
testing a nuke.

We need to keep our eye on the ball.

Fred
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:34:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:45:14 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:52:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 8:53:31 AM EDT by SAICO]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Fredericksburg:

Originally Posted By Spyda:
Until some of these weak willed America hating liberals come up with a better plan to avenge our dead and win this war against criminal clerics, they should sit down and shut up. The loss of power in the 2000/4 elections is not a reason to invite nucular terrorism on our soil. It's shameful.



How do our efforts in Iraq make us safer from nuclear terrorism?

Last time I checked, we should be more concerned about N. Korea and perhaps Iran.
True that Iraq gives us a strategic base of operations right next door to Iran.
Last time I checked though it was N. Korea who is sabre rattling about actually
testing a nuke.

We need to keep our eye on the ball.

Fred



I assume he was referring to potential use of a dirty nuke by al-queda/hezbollah/other similar vermin.

anyway great expression on that Marine's face

Was there some moratorium or something on Army recruiting? I heard the tail end of just a snippet from a press conference on TV, I think it was yesterday morning.



Didn't hear anything other than a one dayer to discuss recruiting eithics.
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