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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2003 1:14:19 PM EDT
Is the provision for travelling to a range with a pistol a defense against arrest or prosecution. Any info is greatly appreciated
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 1:24:44 PM EDT
You didn't get arrested on the way home did you?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 1:39:36 PM EDT
SC-
No just wanted to settle an issue, with the GF's grandfather.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 1:58:35 PM EDT
It depends on what you mean by "traveling with a pistol". Was it concealed ? In your car ? In your trunk ? etc.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 2:37:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 2:42:48 PM EDT by Energizer]
I don't recall the portion of the law where it pertains specifically to traveling to & from a range, but I do know, that in Texas, if you are traveling, the law states that its perfectly legal to conceal or open-carry a handgun on or about your person, including your vehicle. The law does not state anything about it being a defense to prosecution, nor does it define the word "traveling."

For some reason, its up to a judge to determine the definition of "traveling" (case-by-case basis). Depending on the circumstances and the cop's attitude towards you and guns in general, cops may bust you anyway and let the courts sort it all out. However, sometimes they are justified in hauling you in...
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 2:40:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By presto99:
SC-
No just wanted to settle an issue, with the GF's grandfather.



What's he saying?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:29:39 PM EDT
In my CHL class 3 years ago, our instructor told us that without a CHL, a citizen may have in possession (read: in the car, preferably the trunk, unloaded) a firearm, and travel with it "to and from a lawful activity" (read: the range).

This answer was to a question asked by one of the class members who was concerned about her traveling to a range for practice while waiting for the license to come in. He even further specified that if you need to buy ammo/eat lunch/whatever, then do it before going to the range, and before carrying your gun.

He said that otherwise, in a traffic stop, and subsequent search, you may have some legal issues.

For traveling, he said that the law wasn't specifically clear (2 county rule/overnight/with luggage). He told us if we must take a firearm with us (without license but on a trip), then keep it in the car trunk, unloaded.

-Zmeja
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 6:09:29 PM EDT
Now, as before the current CHL law there is and was an exemption for traveling. The word traveling has no definition in the penal code. Unfortunately, the determination as to what the word means is up to the District Attorney in county that you are stopped in. Some have required some proof of travel like a bag with clothing. Others use the water mark of traveling over two counties. Also it is a defense to prosecution not to arrest.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 6:53:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MADUCE:
Now, as before the current CHL law there is and was an exemption for traveling. The word traveling has no definition in the penal code. Unfortunately, the determination as to what the word means is up to the District Attorney in county that you are stopped in. Some have required some proof of travel like a bag with clothing. Others use the water mark of traveling over two counties. Also it is a defense to prosecution not to arrest.



Actually, its up to a judge.


As for traveling in Texas, you can carry it on your dash loaded if you wish. Had a friend try that when going home one night (2 hours away). It was unloaded. He did get pulled over for a taillight being out (it wasn't), the guy looked at the firearm and let him go without further hassle.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 9:09:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 9:14:08 PM EDT by presto99]
I know I wasn't "travelling" according to the law. The gun was in a locked compartment, unloaded with a trigger lock. Is the "range trip" exception in the code a defense against prosecution or arrest. The grandfather says the could convict me on an "UCW", but I think it should be wrong to even arrest me.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 9:12:28 PM EDT
i also know that a CHL would solve all of this debate, but I may be moving out of state soon, so I am waiting on that.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 4:18:51 AM EDT
Before I got my chl in in Texas I would carry the firearm, to the range or hunting, unloaded and inaccesable to me while the vehicle was in motion(read in the trunk). If you follow this same procedure you should be okay.
Roger
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 5:16:26 AM EDT
oh shoot. Don't sweat it. When I go to the range, I have all my guns in the trunk, but maybe a handgun (loaded) and my range bag in the front. I got pulled over on the way to the range once. Cop was pretty cool about it. Asked if I was military, said 'no, but I was an Air Force brat'. Asked where I was going. Told him to the range down the road (about a mile from where I was stopped at). He gave me a warning (very hilly area, very easy to gain speed.. plus I was putting a little distance between me and the guy behind me so I could turn right off of the highway.)

It's going to depend on the LEO, really. But get your CHL. It's basically an "I'm a good guy" card. Helps in many situations!
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 7:45:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2003 7:57:09 AM EDT by bjt]

Originally Posted By presto99:
Is the provision for travelling to a range with a pistol a defense against arrest or prosecution. Any info is greatly appreciated



Presto99-

It used to be a defense to prosecution under Texas Penal Code 46.02(b)(4). This was stupid (you have to be arrested and charged before defending against prosecution) but clear enough. Now, however, 46.02 has been changed to this:

§ 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

Which, of course, makes ANY carrying (outside of CHL) of a handgun to and from the range illegal. But fear not, the new exceptions are found at 46.15...


§ 46.15. Nonapplicability

<SNIP>

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

<SNIP>

Text of subd. (4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 28

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

While I'm no lawyer, I'm thinking that "nonapplicability" really means "defense against arrest" rather than "defense against prosecution" like the old law. I know it's shocking, but it looks like they actually improved the Penal Code for a change. WOOHOOO!

The best advice, however, has alerady been given - get your CHL.

bjt


Edited to add: Note carefully that "carries on or about his person" is not defined in Chapter 46 and that there is no distinction between loaded and unloaded handguns. Make damn sure you're "directly en route" to avoid complications.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 3:14:05 PM EDT
Hate to bump this, but I stopped and chatted with a Tomball P.D. friend of mine and she says that the exclusion of those activities from the code constitute a defense against ARREST. That was after a 5 minute discussion between 2 officers, a sargent and an engineer(me).
Thank you all for your input.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 4:11:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 4:12:50 PM EDT by SSD]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:13:07 AM EDT
It is a defense against prosecution, not arrest.

However, Federal law provides that you can transport a gun as long as it is unloaded and locked up. (not in the glove box or console).
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:16:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 10:35:02 AM EDT by Energizer]

Originally Posted By switch:
It is a defense against prosecution, not arrest.



Traveling is not a defense against prosecution, its a defense against arrest, but the cops don't know the laws and arrest you anyway.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:14:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 9:53:11 AM EDT by SuperAlpha]
If you get a CHL permit, then you have effectively given up your rights. By signing the paperwork, you acknowledge the new rules of engagement and carrying.

Presto!! You have VOLUNTARILY lost your rights.

Funny, huh?

NOT!!!

Ideally, the 2A is your right to carry, concealed or otherwise.

Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:18:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Energizer:

Originally Posted By switch:
It is a defense against prosecution, not arrest.



Traveling is not a defense against prosecution, its a defense against arrest, but the cops don't know the laws and arrest you anyway.



easy
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:29:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Recruit_Killer:
easy



shhhhh!
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 9:46:57 AM EDT
iiiiiiiittttttttttttt!!!
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