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Posted: 10/22/2006 11:01:41 AM EST
This group has been mentioned in a couple threads, but has no thread of its own. Since I've been really impressed by the VCDL in Virginia, thought I'd bring the subject up.

http://www.txcdl.org

They're pretty new and website is being built, but the overall thrust seems to be that they're working to legalize Open Carry in Texas. As I understand it, Texas prohibits Open Carry because Florida does so, and we cribbed most of our CCW laws from FL.

TCDL is inspired by but not affiliated with VCDL, as is ACDL (Arizona). Given AZ's great gun laws, I'm not quite sure what AZfolks have to defend themselves from (coyotes?), but good on 'em anyway.

Membership in TCDL is free, so I signed up just for jollies. If there's any tremendous reason why all TXfolks shouldn't sign up, please post it in this thread, otherwise I'd say all several thousand TXmembers should take the two dang minutes it takes to sign up.

Please, do NOT turn this into a thread as to the merits of Open vs. Concealed. Nobody is going to force you to carry open. Unless you think that TCDL is a bad idea/front group, or think that Open Carry should remain illegal, please refrain from hating. Thanks,

-MV
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 3:57:07 PM EST
hmm, sounds like a good idea to me
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 4:15:29 PM EST
i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone carrying a handgun that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.

If you want to carry a pistol on your person, or a shotgun or rifle or bazooka for that matter, carry anything you want, just reassure me that your lawful and proficient with the weapon first.

I wouldnt have a problem with open carry, but there should be a fingerprint and background check first just like with concealed.

Actually liscensed open carry might be good because it would show the pro gun control (im afraid of fellow citizens owing guns type of crowd) people that there are millions of texans around them every day with a firearm on and they dont pose a threat to anyone.

If libtards actually knew how many law abiding citizens were carrying around them every day then maybe they wouldnt be so afraid of guns.
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 4:57:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2006 5:08:20 PM EST by MatthewVanitas]

i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone carrying a handgun that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.


Not picking on you, man, but:

Imagine substituting about any other activity into that sentence and see if it makes sense:



i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone CARRYING A PROTEST SIGN that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.



i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone WEARING A VEIL that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.



i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone WITH LARGE MUSCLES that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.



i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone READING "THE MONKEYWRENCH GANG" OR "CAMP OF THE SAINTS" that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.


Guilty until proven innocent?

-MV
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 5:21:12 PM EST
i like my CHL.
Would I like a HL?

I would probably drink less and carry more.
Just remove the concealed sections of the law.
But then there should be an easy way for a cop to visually ID a lawful HL holder. Say a badge or something that says “don’t shoot me”.

Its kind of spooky to see plain clothed cops remove their jackets at buffet restaurants and go back for a second plate without covering up the guns. No exposed badge or ID. Just a fat guy with a gun. I guess as long as it’s not pointed at me I am kind of uneasy with it.

Now if buba wants a CHL that’s fine he can keep it concealed. If he wants a thigh holster I don’t know. Seems provocative.

I guess I have to think about it more. Not saying I don’t like it. just that it’s a new thought and I need to consider it.

Missouri has a open carry law with a stipulation that any local municipality can outlaw open carry in the city limits. So they all did. WE CAN’T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN IN TEXAS!

Ask the Alaska boys how they like theirs.
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 5:30:58 PM EST

Say a badge or something that says “don’t shoot me”.


Same as above: the mere fact that the you're doing nothing wrong should be reason enough not to shoot you.

As I understand it, this happens in VA from time to time:

**ringring***
LEO: Waspboro Police, how may I help you?
FB: Ohmigodohmigodohmigod!!! There's a man in the library with a gun!
LEO: Is it in a holster?
FB: Umm, yes, but he has a gun!
LEO: Is he threatening anybody, placing his hand on it, harassing anyone?
FB: He's reading "Canterbury Tales", but he has a gun.
LEO: Can't do anything about it, have a nice day!
**click**

Myself, I don't think that I'd carry Open in my daily life. It's crowded here in Austin, and I don't generally feel like getting in a discussion every 100ft (well, some days maybe).

However, restrictions on rights = bad thing, so therefore I support liberalizing/eliminating the oppressive gunlaws of my new home, the Great State of Texas.

(On a minor sidenote, CCW licenses cost far less and are far easier to get in latte-sipping, Thai food-eating Seattle than in shoot-em-up El Paso)

-MV
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 5:58:28 PM EST
Well I'm in Anchorage and IIRC we can't open carry in the muni (we scare to tourists or something . Anyway, I carry every day on my right hip with a jacket or flannel shirt to cover. I wouldn't carry open as a normal thing myself, but it would be nice to remove my jacket and not worry about getting in hot water. Personally I prefer to be descrete. I know I'm packing and don't feel like I need to show it off to anyone else.
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 9:36:36 PM EST
I'm an Alaskan.

I'm all for open carry if that is how a person wants to carry.

Our basic handgun law is anyone that can legally own a handgun can carry it any way they want. open or concealed

In Anchorage although it is legal to open carry (our Mayor thinks we shouldn’t)
You will most likely get a visit from you know who, if you are seen walking the streets packing a handgun on your hip. Just to check you out. Most times it is a lower 48’er thinking the Last Frontier is still the Wild Wild West.

I like our carry laws as they are for the most part.

I would like to see Concealed Handgun Permit holders being able to carry at some of our off-limit places like Schools and Federal land like National Parks and Post Offices and Federally funded Daycare Centers.

I conceal carry in town.
When out in the Bush (woods) I carry under a jacket or raincoat to protect my handgun from the weather.

Ripak
Be Safe Have Fun
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 5:04:12 AM EST
I remember when they were debating concealed carry. One of the reasons they didn't want open carry, was it would scare people when they saw a couple of good ol boys walking down the street with tied down guns.
The only reason I could come up with for open carry would be summertime. It would be nice to be able to wear jeans and a t-shirt and still carry.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 5:20:54 AM EST
I am STRONGLY in favor of open carry in Texas. I think open carry by law abiding citizens goes a long way to educating the public about the Second Amendment, RKBA, and that guns are merely objects that should not be feared.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 6:10:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2006 6:15:52 AM EST by clikclikpull]
I'd like the option to open carry as long as it doesn't start a trend like "why does anyone need to conceal?".

For the most part I don't like being the center of attention and open carry seem like a real attention getter.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 6:21:53 AM EST
I moved to Texas a little over a year ago from VA, and I can honestly say that I love open carry. In VA I open carried more than I carried concealed. While you do get some strange looks from time to time, most people are to oblivious to their surroundings to even notice that you have a weapon on you.

I especially would like open carry in TX because I ride a motorcycle and concealment of my full size autos is quite a pain if I want it to be accessible when I'm stopped.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 11:02:54 AM EST
Good idea to me. When working, drop-leg carry works best for me. I hate having to conceal it just to drive a mile and help the neighbor fix his fence.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 12:39:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2006 1:04:44 PM EST by motown_steve]
No offense, but this is one of the more illogical and uninformed opions that I have read on this board.


Originally Posted By hkusp9:
i kinda like the idea that the police can arrest anyone carrying a handgun that doesnt bother proving themselves not to be a criminal first.


Read the papers or watch the news. There are murders and armed robberies being commited in this state everyday. Criminals are already carrying guns with impunity regardless of the concealed carry laws in the state. Laws only effect the law abiding.


If you want to carry a pistol on your person, or a shotgun or rifle or bazooka for that matter, carry anything you want, just reassure me that your lawful and proficient with the weapon first.


Under Texas law, anyone can carry a rifle or shotgun. You can literally sling your AR15 if you want to go for a walk. In some places you'll probably get hassled by the police if you do, but as long as you aren't 'displaying it in a threatening manner' there is nothing that they can do about it. Also, anyone who can legally buy a handgun can have it in their car with them. Again, you might get hassled by the cops and prosecuted by a prosecutor with an axe to grind, but your chances of beating it should be very high.


I wouldnt have a problem with open carry, but there should be a fingerprint and background check first just like with concealed.


Why? Criminals are already carrying guns and the laws aren't stopping them. The only people that would be effected by a restriction on open carry would be the law abiding people that you don't have to worry about. If someone isn't going to carry a gun because of legal restrictions then they aren't going to commit criminal acts with a gun if they could carry it. The people that you do have to worry about commiting crimes with guns are already carrying guns regardless of the law.


Actually liscensed open carry might be good because it would show the pro gun control (im afraid of fellow citizens owing guns type of crowd) people that there are millions of texans around them every day with a firearm on and they dont pose a threat to anyone.

If libtards actually knew how many law abiding citizens were carrying around them every day then maybe they wouldnt be so afraid of guns.


The DPS keeps pretty detailed statistics about concealed carry and they are easily accessed by the public. The libtards know exactly how many people are licensed to carry concealed handguns in the state of Texas. The Brady Bunch commonly uses the statistics on concealed carry in Texas when writing their anti-gun publications. Anyone who wants to can find out in about 5 seconds just how many people are licensed to carry concealed weapons in Texas, and they can also find out what ethnicity these people are, what county they live in, what crimes have been commited by CHL holders, what the crime was that was commited by the CHL holder, whether or not the CHL holder had his CH with them when the commited the crime, how many applications have been denied by the DPS and what counties the people who were denied lived in.

Open carry and even unlicensed carry have worked successfully in other states and there is no reason why they would not work here. Bad people will continue to do bad things and good people will continue to do the right thing regardless of the law.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 12:45:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ripak:
I'm an Alaskan.

I'm all for open carry if that is how a person wants to carry.

Our basic handgun law is anyone that can legally own a handgun can carry it any way they want. open or concealed



As it should be.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 2:08:11 PM EST
open carry info can be found here.
www.opencarry.org/
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 8:19:52 PM EST
I'm originally from the Houston area. I moved to Alaska 9 years ago. We have open carry here in Alaska and you can carry concealed without a permit as well (as long as you can legally own a handgun). I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen that carry OPEN. Folks just don't bother. I would rather not carry open because if someone wants to jack me up he will come with something big. I like the eliment of surprise myself. That said, I like the freedom of being ABLE to carry open if I desire. Also, if anyone needed to carry it would be someone that lives in a city like Houston or LA

Good luck,
Bill
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 2:09:29 AM EST
Heck, Louisiana has open carry and it ain't like blood runs in the streets over there.

Ain't it funny how there's a lot of common everyday things that used to be legal but are now against the law?

t
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 4:25:36 AM EST
I am always in favor of more rights for good citizens.

From a practical perspective though, open carry can (but does not always) create backlash if it prompts more hoplophobes to be active because they are now aware of things that they weren't aware of before.

I don't know that this is much of a problem in Texas since it already has a reputation as a gun state; but I hope it is something TXCDL keeps in mind in pursuing its goals. If they want to work towards open carry I've got no problem with that... if their sole method to pursue that consists of walking around town with a gun on their hip looking to upset someone enough to make their point, then I don't really find that tactic all that helpful.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 5:19:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 6:17:57 AM EST by Possum-Sandwich]

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
I am always in favor of more rights for good citizens.



Originally Posted By texnAK:
I like the freedom of being ABLE to carry open if I desire.

Two excellent points.

Whatever your personal choice is on open carrying, most pro-RKBA folks would agree that removing laws that criminalize open carry is a step in the right direction.

Even for those folks that conceal all the time, changing the law removes the possibility that someone catches a glimpse of your handgun, calls the police, and you're charged (rightly or not).

I hope that this gets pushed through this session, but I suspect that TSRA and the legislature will focus on Castle Doctrine and fixing the "traveling" debacle. Although, if we're doing that, we may as well include open carry. An "Omnibus Personal and Family Protection Bill," of sorts.

Edit to fix speling.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 6:10:38 AM EST
How about vermont..... carry a gun however the hell you want; just dont commit a crime.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 6:22:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
How about vermont..... carry a gun however the hell you want; just dont commit a crime.


I only wish Texas could be that freedom-minded.

damnyankees got us beat there.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:26:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
How about vermont..... carry a gun however the hell you want; just dont commit a crime.


I only wish Texas could be that freedom-minded.

damnyankees got us beat there.


Don't try and pin it on the Yankees, there are plenty of native Texans who are gun grabbing, big government leftists. Ann Richards was a native Texan. Alberto Gonzales is a native Texan. Hell, Texas didn't even have a CHL until 1996. Hardly pioneers in the way of gun rights.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:42:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Trueno:
Heck, Louisiana has open carry and it ain't like blood runs in the streets over there.

Ain't it funny how there's a lot of common everyday things that used to be legal but are now against the law felonies?

t



There, fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 10:20:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
How about vermont..... carry a gun however the hell you want; just dont commit a crime.


I only wish Texas could be that freedom-minded.

damnyankees got us beat there.


Don't try and pin it on the Yankees, there are plenty of native Texans who are gun grabbing, big government leftists. Ann Richards was a native Texan. Alberto Gonzales is a native Texan. Hell, Texas didn't even have a CHL until 1996. Hardly pioneers in the way of gun rights.


I think that was his point.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:49:21 AM EST

if their sole method to pursue that consists of walking around town with a gun on their hip looking to upset someone enough to make their point, then I don't really find that tactic all that helpful.


Hey, it worked in Virginia! Not kidding either, check out the VCDL's webpage if you get curious.


Most of Americans are pretty apathetic. If they seem someone with a gun and can't get them arrested, they might write something snarky on their blog.

The 1% of Americans who actually get involved with gun control already have their volume knob turned all the way up to 11 anyway, so one more thing for them to yelp about won't make any difference.

However, if Open Carry comes to be seen as normal, tons of fence sitters will slowly realize "Huh, whenever I see Bob at the hardware store, he always has that gun, and he seems so reasonable. Guess it's not such a big deal."

-MV
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:08:10 PM EST
Up home in Kaintuck we can open carry. Although I have a CCW, it's nice to be able to strap on a web belt with a Govt holster for my GI issue 1911.

I don't open carry very often as I prefer the tactical advantage of concealment, but it's nice to be able to carry handguns which are too big to conceal. Think 50 Smith.

Any return to our RKBA rights is a good thing, no?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:46:47 PM EST
I'm all for it, when I lived in Arizona my brothers and friends and I opened carried all the time going to/from the range. No hassles either. I think people criminals are more worried if they think you can fight back.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:25:45 PM EST
No open carry?? I'm shocked! I mean, c'mon, it's Texas we're talking about!!

I did not know that.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:01:48 PM EST
I live in a small town in AK and tons of people carry, mostly either concealed, or some do what I call "sloppy" carry.

Sloppy carry is that the gun isn't either totally concealed, like gun a shoulder holster under an open vest, or on the belt under a shirt. We can carry and do it whatever way is most comfortable. It is more a matter of practicality than anything.

I think open carry was impractical here because os the heavy winter coats and so on, it makes sense in TX though. Every one of you guys should have a 1911 in .38 super on them big ass belts you wear. You are on the front lines of the invasion. You should be armed.

I think the BG's will think that if there is a gun in the open, that person is likely to use it, and then wonder how many guns out there that they cannot see.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:11:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By BangStick1:
No open carry?? I'm shocked! I mean, c'mon, it's Texas we're talking about!!


No open carry of handguns. On the other hand, the New Black Panther Party marched on the GOP convention carrying AK47s and had no troubles.
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