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Posted: 1/27/2006 10:25:56 AM EDT




Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:16:15 AM EDT
Well, that didn't take long.

What do you think is next?

Also, any chance you can e-mail the letter to me at mapesq@verizon.net ?

Thanks,

Mike
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:41:04 AM EDT
Well that happened a bit sooner than I expected.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:46:17 AM EDT
Let me get this straight-

So basically, you've become an instant criminal for those who have had their mags temporarily blocked up till now. Now you have to render them permanently, otherwise face prosecution?

Gee, its too bad you only have 1 mag to begin with....guess you'll have to render only that one mag since you ever had the opportunity to purchase any other ones........rainy days ahead, plan accordingly.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:25:57 PM EDT
Looks like that vaseline has sand in it -
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:26:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 12:28:37 PM EDT by Bogey1911]
God Damn it. It seems like every state, with exception to the usual suspects, are getting less gun control. i.e. castle doctrine & CCW. Freakin Jersey is gonna supercede Cali with Jackass Corzine at the helm. I would say buy lowers now, but this god-forsaken state never grandfather's anything anyway.

ETA: PK do you have any converted Bushy mags laying around? I'm in for a couple to stay range legal.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:52:31 PM EDT
Looks like I will move to Maryland this summer after all. I know Maryland is a restrictive state but it is better than NJ now.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 1:08:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 1:16:16 PM EDT by GoingIncognito]
...<insert comment here>

Edit: So in continuing to stay legal, we must make ANY 15-round blocked mag PERMANENTLY blocked to 15-rounds? Say we were to solder the floorplate on? Or are any and all blocked 15-round mags now pretty much useless no matter what?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 1:42:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 1:56:39 PM EDT by BSOG1]
just weld the floorplates on...

SCUMBAG ASSHOLES.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:28:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MAP:
Also, any chance you can e-mail the letter to me at mapesq@verizon.net ?
Thanks,
Mike


DONE

Originally Posted By Bogey1911:
ETA: PK do you have any converted Bushy mags laying around? I'm in for a couple to stay range legal.


UPDATED

Originally Posted By GoingIncognito:
Say we were to solder the floorplate on? Or are any and all blocked 15-round mags now pretty much useless no matter what?


WELDS or RIVETS
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:32:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 2:38:24 PM EDT by steveinct]
F them! Ask them if they check gang members' mags.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:36:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 2:38:06 PM EDT by steveinct]
.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:58:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:08:51 PM EDT
and to all the non believers----

i told yas blocked mags where good to go....

TILL NOW...
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:15:27 PM EDT
nappen wrote a letter i think in 2003 talking about this, he said the state police were wrong and "your blocked mags need to be permanently altered and are incapable of holding more than 15 rounds" (cant find the link) if i come across this page i will post it but, at this point it does not matter anyway.

you can bet the .50 is next.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:25:14 PM EDT
Okay, so how would one "fix" existing converted 15-round BM mags? PK90's new magazines include a fix mag floor and I'm wondering what that entails.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:49:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 4:01:42 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:03:51 PM EDT
My question is what about semi-auto shotguns? It was okay in NJ to temporarily block semi auto shotguns to 5 rounds. Does this mean permanetly blocked shotguns too?

I got out of that f-ing state just in time.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:38:16 PM EDT
I can't wait till I am out of here. This is such Horseshiz
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 12:22:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By target435:
what about the Colt five round mags that have the Ushaped limiter?



I have two. They are fine as the floorplate is rivited.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:22:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M1-Matt:
Looks like I will move to Maryland this summer after all. I know Maryland is a restrictive state but it is better than NJ now.

Na...Just come on over the river to PA.

No magazine restrictions of any kind.

Full-Auto to your hearts content. Suppressors too.

And We're going to the Super Bowl this year!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:43:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 4:02:13 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:46:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 4:02:39 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:20:54 AM EDT
Seriously, all I need to do is find a job there and you can add another to the population of PA.


Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:

Originally Posted By M1-Matt:
Looks like I will move to Maryland this summer after all. I know Maryland is a restrictive state but it is better than NJ now.

Na...Just come on over the river to PA.

No magazine restrictions of any kind.

Full-Auto to your hearts content. Suppressors too.

And We're going to the Super Bowl this year!



As far as I have seen with the ones I have, there is no way to get anymore then 15 rounds into these mags. Everything looks just long enough to stop the floorplate from popping off. They are great conversions btw.


Originally Posted By target435:
what about the PK90 converted mags with the screw in the floorplate-can they be re-re-converted??




^_^_^
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:22:10 AM EDT
2nd Design: I have reconfigured the design of the conversion. There is no restriction inside the mag to interfere with the follower's travel. The base is secure by an alternate method. The capacity is limited to 15 rounds maximum and any alteration to the base to increase the capacity beyond the 15 rounds would render the mag useless. Of course that is what Bushmaster said.
My converted mag, like the original BM mag, can be disassembled, but not readily, and taken apart for cleaning. I do not reccommend this and it will show that the mag has been disassembled.

Originally Posted By target435:
what about the PK90 converted mags with the screw in the floorplate-can they be re-re-converted??

I believe that this letter from the NJSP, under the direction of the Attorney General, addresses the blocking down of the higher capacity magazines. I do not believe that all magazines need to be made permanent. Only those originally designed to hold more than 15 rounds, i.e. AR Type, AK Type, Glock 17, etc...
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:21:43 AM EDT

Ah...................... CORSLIME
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:05:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 3:58:27 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 12:51:10 PM EDT
As this was expected but nothing was done.... Lets try to make an appeal for exemptions for sport shooters... USPSA members. Since all club members name were submitted to State Police maybe we can work out a registered High Capacity magazine. Assault Weapon can still be registered in this state, maybe a registered magazine is not a wild idea. Lets get serious
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 1:50:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 1:51:56 PM EDT by bushy2112]

Originally Posted By nutbad:
As this was expected but nothing was done.... Lets try to make an appeal for exemptions for sport shooters... USPSA members. Since all club members name were submitted to State Police maybe we can work out a registered High Capacity magazine. Assault Weapon can still be registered in this state, maybe a registered magazine is not a wild idea. Lets get serious



If you start registering mags you are just creating a list of AR owners for the state police. So when the state requirers you to turn in your detatichable magazine rifles they will know which doors to knock on. Lets face it USPSA is now dead in NJ unless you are shooting L-10 or production. No one is going to shoot USPSA rifle or shotgun if there is the risk of being arrested. I know I will just stick with the PA matches.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 1:52:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nutbad:
.... Assault Weapon can still be registered in this state, maybe a registered magazine is not a wild idea....


Your time has come and gone.

2C:58-12. Registration of assault firearms
b. The owner of an assault firearm purchased on or before May 1, 1990 which is on the list of assault firearms determined by the Attorney General to be legitimate for target-shooting purposes shall have one year from the effective date of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12 et al.) to register that firearm.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:59:12 PM EDT
Damnnned shame on this state...I'll stick around with my 15 rounders....
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:54:24 PM EDT
oh... shit
Anyone have a source for 15rd AK mags?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:54:45 AM EDT
As usual, gun control is always a winning issue in the blue states. They can't and won't control violent criminals, so they go after gun owners again. I feel your pain.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:55:21 AM EDT
scary military type rifles, high cap mags, folding stock, henny penny! they are so deadly we must ban it all! oh but wait, on demand abortion, well we need to have some more of that because its written law you see, and we all know the right to bear arms is not. gun control is about public safety and the children. lets see there were 67 zillion abortions last year and our guns killed no one.( HUMMM? ) it is mind blowing to me how these fools twist and turn right from wrong and the good folks allways pay the price. overnight your mags turn you into a 3rd degree felon, but rush that scanky whore off to kill a unborn child and your good to go.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:45:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cx4stormer:
scary military type rifles, high cap mags, folding stock, henny penny! they are so deadly we must ban it all! oh but wait, on demand abortion, well we need to have some more of that because its written law you see, and we all know the right to bear arms is not. gun control is about public safety and the children. lets see there were 67 zillion abortions last year and our guns killed no one.( HUMMM? ) it is mind blowing to me how these fools twist and turn right from wrong and the good folks allways pay the price. overnight your mags turn you into a 3rd degree felon, but rush that scanky whore off to kill a unborn child and your good to go.



To keep the record straight, it's not a felony, it's a crime in the fourth degree. Although I wouldn't want to be charged with either.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:57:57 AM EDT
So now the question is what type of glue could be considered permanent enough to satisfy the requirements of not being readily convertible back to a "large capacity magazine".

I'm talking about gluing the Block into the body of the magazine.

A Temporary Block is now being interpreted as no good.

A Permanent Block to 15 rounds is good.

There are different methods to achieve this permanency.

Welding and Rivets have thus far been mentioned.

Some strong glues should be comparable for those without welding expertise or for those who have plastic bodied magazines (Glock, etc).

I think we can rule out Elmer's Glue of course.

Various Loc-Tites should qualify however.

Let's think about what other types of glue might fall into this category?

We're talking about a wood block gluing into either a metal or plastic magazine body.

The bottom of the magazine does not receive exposure to extreme heat nor moisture so that shouldn't be a problem.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:06:08 AM EDT
Someone brought up an interesting point to me in an IM. This letter says "Permanently Altered". Does that mean the mags have to be cut down to only accept a maximum of 15 rounds or does it mean that the mags have to be permanently blocked down to the 15 rounds?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:30:38 AM EDT
Good question, I would imagine that if a magazine had the block inside "reasonably" permanently attached and the floorplate "reasonably" permanently attached that it would satisfy the new ruling. Household Goop and Gorilla Glue are both really strong expansion/crack filling glues, and if you were to rough up the bottom of the floorplate and glue a wood block down there is nearly no way that you could get the block off short of cutting and sanding. After that it's just a matter of welding/soldering/riveting/etc the floorplate on. Does this sound reasonable?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:43:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 7:48:12 AM EDT by MAP]

Originally Posted By GoingIncognito:
Good question, I would imagine that if a magazine had the block inside "reasonably" permanently attached and the floorplate "reasonably" permanently attached that it would satisfy the new ruling. Household Goop and Gorilla Glue are both really strong expansion/crack filling glues, and if you were to rough up the bottom of the floorplate and glue a wood block down there is nearly no way that you could get the block off short of cutting and sanding. After that it's just a matter of welding/soldering/riveting/etc the floorplate on. Does this sound reasonable?



The question becomes, IMHO, can the magazine be changed back into a hi-cap mag? If it is possible then it would be no good.

Mike

Edit to add: I just sent CP Products an e-mail asking if they could do a run of 15 round magazines.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:03:10 AM EDT
Not to toot my own whistle, but........

Originally Posted By PK90:
2nd Design: I have reconfigured the design of the conversion. There is no restriction inside the mag to interfere with the follower's travel. The base is secure by an alternate method. The capacity is limited to 15 rounds maximum and any alteration to the base to increase the capacity beyond the 15 rounds would render the mag useless....

I think that my mags are within the legal limits, especially after showing my design to a NJSP Firearms Unit Member.

Originally Posted By MAP:
...I just sent CP Products an e-mail asking if they could do a run of 15 round magazines.

Who is CP Products?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:59:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 9:01:25 AM EDT by Camdeck]
Of course, for AR mags the most cost-effective approach is the 15 round magazines offered by PK90.

The real discussion centers around magazines that are not readily available in 15 round increments or do not readily convert through other means.

What immediately comes to mind in the category of magazines that will require a glued or welded block are:
a) M1A 20's permanently blocked to 15
b) AR10 20's permanently blocked to 15
c) Glock 17's permanently blocked to 15
d) Various AK mags

What other common magazines in this category represent an issue to NJ Arfcommers?

I'm voting Gorilla Glue between the block and the inside mag wall, but not the floorplate.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:20:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Camdeck:
I'm voting Gorilla Glue between the block and the inside mag wall, but not the floorplate.




Good point, gluing it to the inside mag wall is a much better idea than the floor plate, since it makes it much harder to fully remove. If you use a sufficent amount of Gorilla Glue, the only way to remove the block and excess glue would nearly destroy the magazine body anyway, as cutting it out with a dremel would be the only real option and then sanding down the remaining expanded glue (as no solvent for the dried glue exists that wouldn't destroy the magazine anyway, to my knowledge).
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:33:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 3:59:50 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:07:49 PM EDT
Guys IMHO I think that welding or riveting the hi cap mags may be the only way to go.

Here are a couple of photos of my BAR mags that OOW supplied with the rifle.
60 years ago they started life out as 20rds mags.





As you see they have welded the floor plate on to the mag body. On the bottom of the follower they welded a piece of tubing on as the block. There is no way that these can be modified without tearing apart the mag.

IMO With Paul's mags I think we are good to go because I see no difference with his mag compared to a beretta 92 mags. They both hold 15rds and have removable floor plates.

YTFMFD (Your tin foil may fit differently)
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:33:52 PM EDT
how about dont comply... who is going to check and tamper with your mags....

id just put my mags away and not take them out...until I moved or the laws changed....
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:44:35 PM EDT
Word of advice, don't be the test case to see how far you can go with perm blocked mags.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:19:22 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:47:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PK90:

Originally Posted By MAP:
...I just sent CP Products an e-mail asking if they could do a run of 15 round magazines.

Who is CP Products?



Look here

Mike
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:26:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By steveinct:
F them! Ask them if they check gang members' mags.




Dude, you're forgetting something. We're the criminals.

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:01:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:

Originally Posted By cx4stormer:
scary military type rifles, high cap mags, folding stock, henny penny! they are so deadly we must ban it all! oh but wait, on demand abortion, well we need to have some more of that because its written law you see, and we all know the right to bear arms is not. gun control is about public safety and the children. lets see there were 67 zillion abortions last year and our guns killed no one.( HUMMM? ) it is mind blowing to me how these fools twist and turn right from wrong and the good folks allways pay the price. overnight your mags turn you into a 3rd degree felon, but rush that scanky whore off to kill a unborn child and your good to go.



To keep the record straight, it's not a felony, it's a crime in the fourth degree. Although I wouldn't want to be charged with either.hinking.gif



The terms misdemeanor and felony are not used in NJ. The terms used here are disorderly persons offence (basicly equal to misdemeanor in other states) and crime (basicly equal to felony in other states). This is a Crime of the 4th degree, so if you were to mix and match with the more popular terms used out of state...than yes it in fact would be a 4th degree felony.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:45:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Oblivion:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By cx4stormer:
overnight your mags turn you into a 3rd degree felon,

To keep the record straight, it's not a felony, it's a crime in the fourth degree. Although I wouldn't want to be charged with either.hinking.gif



The terms misdemeanor and felony are not used in NJ. The terms used here are disorderly persons offence (basicly equal to misdemeanor in other states) and crime (basicly equal to felony in other states). This is a Crime of the 4th degree, so if you were to mix and match with the more popular terms used out of state...than yes it in fact would be a 4th degree felony.



guys, thank you for your pin-point accuracy on the law, i made a tiny error in my sarcastic rant, guess the point that i was trying to make was missed.
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