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Posted: 10/5/2004 12:28:30 PM EST
Who in the Phoenix area sells tannerite? Is it a big deal to purchase?

Thanks in advance.

SD
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:30:50 PM EST
IM
MCTLTD
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 7:37:56 PM EST
I bought a case last Saturday for $75.00 from a gentleman in AJ named Travis. Since his phone # was published in the newspaper, here it is. 480.474.2207.

AB
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:54:33 AM EST
I bought a case from Travis in Gold Canyon and it was almost solid. It was a real pain to mix. Complimentary funnel was also absent.

MCTLTD is the good to go. His tannerite is fresh, and had the little funnel. I like the free funnels.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:13:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By tfod:
I bought a case from Travis in Gold Canyon and it was almost solid. It was a real pain to mix. Complimentary funnel was also absent.

MCTLTD is the good to go. His tannerite is fresh, and had the little funnel. I like the free funnels.



+1
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 2:34:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 2:36:36 PM EST by mjrowley]

Originally Posted By mylhouse:

Originally Posted By tfod:
I bought a case from Travis in Gold Canyon and it was almost solid. It was a real pain to mix. Complimentary funnel was also absent.

MCTLTD is the good to go. His Tannerite is fresh, and had the little funnel. I like the free funnels.



+1



I need to add the fact that, MCTLTD has been out of town of almost a month. He may not have much in stock...

Hell maybe I should start selling the stuff....
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 2:54:25 PM EST
NETXT GROUP BUY???



Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:59:14 AM EST
Seeing all that ordinance being wasted like that brings a tear to my eye...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:51:06 AM EST
Anyone try making their own?

We know one of the ingredients is pyro grade aluminum. Several theories on what the other stuff is.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:39:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Anyone try making their own?

We know one of the ingredients is pyro grade aluminum. Several theories on what the other stuff is.


Gotta source for the AL that won't bring the Booze, smoke and gun guys?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:48:01 AM EST
I have heard that it is potassium perchlorate mixed with pyro grade aluminum. I don't have sources for either. The more Al the more shock sensitive.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:40:26 PM EST
Honestly, if you want to make it, it's not that big of a deal. It's just not very cost effective unless you're buying stuff in bulk.

The ammonium perchlorate is the only portion that is considered an explosive by the ATF. The aluminum and other powdered metals are considered flamable metals. They aren't regulated by the ATF, but they still require hefty HAZMAT fees for shipping.

The only way you can do it legally without having an explosives magazine to store unused ammonium perchlorate is to use all of the ammonium perchlorate the day you recieve it. So, as soon as Mr. UPS drops it off at your house, you've got to go mix it into the tannerite base. This "dilutes" (for lack of a better word) the AP to the point where it is no longer considered an explosive by the ATF.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:42:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 12:43:08 PM EST by WolverineAtWork]

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
I have heard that it is potassium perchlorate mixed with pyro grade aluminum. I don't have sources for either. The more Al the more shock sensitive.



NONONONONONONONONONO.... It's ammonium perchlorate. If I remember correctly, messing with potassium perchlorate is a really good way to make your beneficiaries rich.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:01:12 PM EST
This is what I read.

potassium perchlorate (NEVER use chlorate!!) & black aluminum powder (pyro grade)
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:39:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By WolverineAtWork:

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
I have heard that it is potassium perchlorate mixed with pyro grade aluminum. I don't have sources for either. The more Al the more shock sensitive.



NONONONONONONONONONO.... It's ammonium perchlorate. If I remember correctly, messing with potassium perchlorate is a really good way to make your beneficiaries rich.



This is why I just buy it from Dan.

No stress, No worrys.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:06:03 PM EST
Ok guys, you are partially right. I have a copy of the US patent application that gives the specific components and there quantities. The reason I dont make it myself is because to buy it in the quantities that I would need, i would be required to have a explosives manufacturing license, and thats out of the question right now. I do have some people that want it, but I have just got back from in town, and I need to make a decently sized purchase to get the discount that he has been giving me. I normally sell it for $85 a case and it does come with a funnel and a spoon. If some of you would like to do a group purchase, i would be glad to coordinate it for you all, if it would be allowed by the powers that be here at ARFCOM. I do have good references on this site, but I dont post very often. So, if the powers that be will allow it, I would be glad to give everyone a hand.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:05:32 PM EST
What would it cost to ship to 85364?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:18:32 PM EST
Probably about 14 or 15 dollars, maybe? Not positive. But I sometimes have friends that go out that way.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:28:55 PM EST
Any chance I can get a small quantity of this stuff for a small shoot I have planned this Sunday? I'm off work Saturday and Live in east Mesa.


-John

Beagles747@aol.com
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:53:35 PM EST



Okay mctltd, I need a case on the 23rd before the 24th shoot..


Anyone else want to get a case. Let's do this together.

AZ-K9 maybe I can pick a case up for you and you come down for the Table Mesa Rd. shoot on the 24th to pick it up. Let me know.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 2:26:48 AM EST
Carbine10,
I need a case and will be there on the 24th. IM or email me and I will get you the money if you are going out to get it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:26:55 AM EST
Guys, if you want to get some from me, I will be placing the order on Monday the 11th. The price is $85 dollars per case, and a case includes 20 bottles, a funnel and a spoon. You will need to get your own mixing container. I wiil need to have cash in hand from you before I place the order. This is part of the reason I can give you this pricing. If you are not comfortable with this, I am sorry but I have many good references and this is the way I do things. If you would like to contact me to order some, my cell phone has been fixed as of 8 this morning. You can contact me at 602-292-6609. Mikehug.gif
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:30:02 AM EST
Beagles, I might possibly be able to get you a small quantity. Right now all I have has been committed to Winston Wolf, if his does not show up by tonight. I am waiting to hear back from him. So if his shows up I will be able to get you some. I am in AJ at approximately Ironwood and Broadway. See my post above for a phone number.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:37:44 AM EST
This one sounds interesting.

patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,521,064.WKU.&OS=PN/6,521,064&RS=PN/6,521,064



What is claimed is:

1. A pyrotechnic burster composition comprising potassium perchlorate, at least one metal powder, and at least one of pentaerythritol and terephthalic acid.

2. The composition of claim 1, wherein the at least one of pentaerythritol and terephthalic acid comprises pentaerythritol.

3. The composition of claim 1, wherein the at least one of pentaerythritol and terephthalic acid comprises terephthalic acid.

4. The composition of claim 2, wherein the pentaerythritol comprises particles having a size of less than 600 micrometers and the potassium perchlorate comprises particles having a size of less than 425 micrometers.

5. The composition of claim 4, wherein the pentaerythritol comprises particles having a size of less than 250 micrometers and the potassium perchlorate comprises particles having a size of less than 250 micrometers.

6. The composition of claim 5, wherein the potassium perchlorate comprises particles having a size of 15 to 25 micrometers.

7. The composition of claim 3, wherein the terephthalic acid comprises particles having a size of less than 600 micrometers and the potassium perchlorate comprises particles having a size of less than 425 micrometers.

8. The composition of claim 7, wherein the terephthalic acid comprises particles having a size of less than 250 micrometers and the potassium perchlorate comprises particles having a size of less than 250 micrometers.

9. The composition of claim 8, wherein the potassium perchlorate comprises particles having a size of 15 to 25 micrometers.

10. The composition of claim 1, wherein the metal powder is selected from the group consisting of aluminum, magnesium, boron, titanium and magnalium.

11. The composition of claim 10, wherein the metal powder is aluminum.

12. The composition of claim 11, wherein the metal powder is aluminum having a particle size of less than about 50 micrometers and a surface area of about 0.58 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3 to 0.78 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3.

13. The composition of claim 12, wherein the aluminum has a particle size of about 12.6 micrometers and a surface area of about 0.68 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3.

14. The composition of claim 6, wherein the metal powder is aluminum having a particle size of less than about 50 micrometers and a surface area of about 0.58 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3 to 0.78 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3.

15. The composition of claim 14, wherein the aluminum has a particle size of about 12.6 micrometers and a surface area of about 0.68 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3.

16. The composition of claim 9, wherein the metal powder is aluminum having a particle size of less than about 50 micrometers and a surface area of about 0.58 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3 to 0.78 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3.

17. The composition of claim 16, wherein the aluminum has a particle size of about 12.6 micrometers and a surface area of about 0.68 m.sup.2 /cm.sup.3.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:05:28 PM EST
Thanks Mike!
So what do I need to have to mix this stuff and how do you mix it? I'm a novice I have shot it but never bought it or mixed it or watched it being mixed before. I don't want to blow my hand off so tell me the proper way to mix this stuff and what's involved...anyone?


-John
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:00:22 AM EST
Just to chime in,
"MCTLTD" is a very honest guy.

You all have nothing to worry about.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:29:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
Just to chime in,
"MCTLTD" is a very honest guy.

You all have nothing to worry about.



+1

Mike is a VERY stand up guy...
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 12:57:30 PM EST
Can someone help me understand what 100% legal means? Legal to own/possess? I would like to get some tannerite but in Kansas, fireworks are illegal for the most part. If firecrakers are illegal, how is tannerite legal?

Next time I'm in AZ, I would like to pickup a case but on most BLM lands (in the desert), fireworks are illegal. Does that include tannerite?

TIA
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:20:12 PM EST
Fireworks are illegal in all of AZ.

Some pissed off officer could interpret tannerite as a firework and cite you but as far as I know it has never happened.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:03:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Fireworks are illegal in all of AZ.

Some pissed off officer could interpret tannerite as a firework and cite you but as far as I know it has never happened.



Oh geeeeez here we go again.

Time for the popcorn!
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:59:22 PM EST



Tannerite Does Not Burn. It just goes BOOM.

Fireworks burn. You must light a fuse to ignite them.

You don't light anything to set off Tannerite. Non Fire exploding target.

Get it! Good.


Plus reason why fireworks are illegal in some staes, is because they will start a fire.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:05:31 PM EST
I don't know how true this is but I heard Tannerite is the type of explosive used to put out fires? I was told it sucks the oxygen out of the area and diminishes flame? Like the type of stuff used to contain fires at oil refineries. Anyone else heard this?


-John
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:06:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 3:07:13 PM EST by kensteele]

Originally Posted By Carbine10:


Tannerite Does Not Burn. It just goes BOOM.

Fireworks burn. You must light a fuse to ignite them.

You don't light anything to set off Tannerite. Non Fire exploding target.

Get it! Good.


Plus reason why fireworks are illegal in some staes, is because they will start a fire.



So tannerite will NOT start a fire? Or is it just low risk? Before I buy someone help me with the question again, the Federal public lands, is tannerite legal to explode there?

Mike, I should be arriving in Phoenix late November. How do I arrange to buy tannerite from you?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:40:22 PM EST
36-1601. Definitions

In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Fireworks" means any combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation, and toy cannons in which explosives are used, the type of balloon which requires fire underneath to propel it, firecrackers, torpedoes, skyrockets, roman candles, daygo bombs, sparklers or other fireworks of like construction, fireworks containing any explosive or combustible compound, and any tablet or other device containing an explosive substance. The term "fireworks" does not include toy pistols, toy canes, toy guns or other devices in which paper caps containing not more than twenty-five hundredths grains of explosive compound are used if constructed so that the hand cannot come in contact with the cap when in place for the explosion, or toy pistol paper caps which contain less than twenty-hundredths grains of explosive mixture, or fixed ammunition or primers therefor.

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:21:18 PM EST
Ken, I will be Bull Elk hunting in Arizona's unit 7 East in November for approximately 2 weeks and then I will be in New Mexico going for Cow Elk for 2 weeks. You can try calling me on the phone at the number listed on page 1 of this thread, but I can't gurantee that I will be in town. I will take care of you though if I am in town. Mike
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:28:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
36-1601. Definitions

In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Fireworks" means any combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation, and toy cannons in which explosives are used, the type of balloon which requires fire underneath to propel it, firecrackers, torpedoes, skyrockets, roman candles, daygo bombs, sparklers or other fireworks of like construction, fireworks containing any explosive or combustible compound, and any tablet or other device containing an explosive substance. The term "fireworks" does not include toy pistols, toy canes, toy guns or other devices in which paper caps containing not more than twenty-five hundredths grains of explosive compound are used if constructed so that the hand cannot come in contact with the cap when in place for the explosion, or toy pistol paper caps which contain less than twenty-hundredths grains of explosive mixture, or fixed ammunition or primers therefor.






Why do we have to mess with this crap again?

Alltho I find it quite entertaining!

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:31:25 PM EST
I'm not making a claim either way because I don't know.

The fireworks question was asked.

Now if you want to argue about AZstan being on State Trust land and it being illegal to shoot there I will put you in your place.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:38:52 PM EST
There is no big fireball but I definitely see an orangish plume at the core of the explosion, small but it's there.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:02:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 6:03:09 PM EST by mjrowley]

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
I'm not making a claim either way because I don't know.

The fireworks question was asked.

Now if you want to argue about AZstan being on State Trust land and it being illegal to shoot there I will put you in your place.



Well I'm glad you are here to tell us how wrong and stupid we are.

What would we do with out you?

BTW what kind of law do you practice?

EDIT: For Spelling
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:37:13 PM EST
Hey Martha!!!! Get me another bag of pop corn and a beer!! I'm going to be on the puter for a while.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:42:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By mjrowley:

BTW what kind of law do you practice?



I don't practice law but I do work for a law firm.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at a map and see that AZstan is on State Trust land. Hell, they even put signs up for you.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:29:31 PM EST
... The trick is finding friends that own a section (1 sq. mile) of land in remote parts of the State.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:33:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:

Originally Posted By mjrowley:

BTW what kind of law do you practice?



I don't practice law but I do work for a law firm.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at a map and see that AZstan is on State Trust land. Hell, they even put signs up for you.



I understand the whole AZSTAN thing.

Just don't know why you seem to take it up on yourself to let us know what we can and cant do. We are all big boys and girls here.

Are you just trying to keep us honest?
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:37:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
Just to chime in,
"MCTLTD" is a very honest guy.

You all have nothing to worry about.



+1

Mike is a VERY stand up guy...



+1 more. And you get the little funnel.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:55:42 PM EST
Yes but do you get the free spoon and demo video? Admitedly I have only received a few of the video tapes but it's fun to watch Daniel and his crew perform a little NFA rock.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:32:19 AM EST
I include 20 bottles, the funnel and yes, a spoon. Sorry, no video. I actually have to go out and buy the funnels and spoons myself because I do not get it with them. It is one of the reasons that I can sell it for that price. Mike
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:53:09 AM EST
I didn't know you had to go out and buy the funnels and spoons, Thank you!

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:54:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 11:32:40 AM EST by Carbine10]

You'll also need to buy a flour sifter.

I have a doctor type bag set up with three tuperware bowls, one flour sifter, one small funnel, one skinny long screwdriver, and measuring spoon. It's my Tannerite bag.


#1. Use long skinny screw driver (6" long) to break up (rock type) white powder out of 8oz. clear bottle into (4" deep X 6" diameter) tuperware bowl.

#2. Continue to break up white rocks with handle of screw driver.

#3. Then pour white rocky powder into flour sifter, with seconed tuperware bowl (3"deep X 6 1/2" diameter) underneath sifter.

#4. Make sure all white powder is finely sifted.

#5. Now mix black powder (I believe one Tablespoon) with 8oz. of white powder. Stir with measuring spoon until all powder is black.

#6. Use small funnel and pour mixed product back into original 8oz. cleasr bottle (shake Bottle well after capping).

#7. Set bottle about 100 yards away and shoot with rifle. We prefer AR15's, AR10's, or AK-47's. Or you may want to use a Remmington 700 or Savage FP110 bolt action rifle. Yes you can use a FAL.

Note my third tuperware bowl is oval (2 1/2" deep X 6 1/2" long) used to hold the black powder and measuring spoon. Becasuse the white plastic container, holding the black powder, is cheap and can break. I can also keep my measuring spoon in this bowl.

Good Luck, Have Fun, And BE SAFE!!!!!!!!!! Don't ruin it, for the rest of us.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:44:28 PM EST
Gee if we use your logic then every shooter at any public of private range that shoots steel for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration would be in violation of this law.


Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
36-1601. Definitions

In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Fireworks" means any combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation, and toy cannons in which explosives are used, the type of balloon which requires fire underneath to propel it, firecrackers, torpedoes, skyrockets, roman candles, daygo bombs, sparklers or other fireworks of like construction, fireworks containing any explosive or combustible compound, and any tablet or other device containing an explosive substance. The term "fireworks" does not include toy pistols, toy canes, toy guns or other devices in which paper caps containing not more than twenty-five hundredths grains of explosive compound are used if constructed so that the hand cannot come in contact with the cap when in place for the explosion, or toy pistol paper caps which contain less than twenty-hundredths grains of explosive mixture, or fixed ammunition or primers therefor.




TK this guy and his friends are just adam henry’s out to tell other people how to live their lives. The fact is TK people are having fun somewhere and people like these clowns do not like that!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:54:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Fireworks are illegal in all of AZ.

Some pissed off officer could interpret tannerite as a firework and cite you but as far as I know it has never happened.



The only logic that I posted along with the ARS defining fireworks.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:36:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Some pissed off officer could interpret tannerite as a firework and cite you but as far as I know it has never happened.



The only logic that I posted along with the ARS defining fireworks.

You, sure did post something. Now read it where it says something about “substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration “.

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
36-1601. Definitions

In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Fireworks" means any combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation, and toy cannons in which explosives are used, the type of balloon which requires fire underneath to propel it, firecrackers, torpedoes, skyrockets, roman candles, daygo bombs, sparklers or other fireworks of like construction, fireworks containing any explosive or combustible compound, and any tablet or other device containing an explosive substance. The term "fireworks" does not include toy pistols, toy canes, toy guns or other devices in which paper caps containing not more than twenty-five hundredths grains of explosive compound are used if constructed so that the hand cannot come in contact with the cap when in place for the explosion, or toy pistol paper caps which contain less than twenty-hundredths grains of explosive mixture, or fixed ammunition or primers therefor.



What happens when a bullet strikes a metal target?

Does it make a noise or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration ?

Here is one of the definitions of explosion:
2. bursting or shattering of something: a bursting with a loud noise, or a shattering of something into many pieces

This is pretty much what a bullet does on impact with a metal target.

Plus if you shoot metal targets when it is dark you will see a visible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration.
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