Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Page Hometown » Ohio
Site Notices
9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/20/2003 3:41:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 3:47:10 AM EDT by illigb]
I just heard on WTAM in Cleveland that Taft will veto any CCW legislation that does not publish the permit holder's name as a matter of public record.

Taft strikes again.



Taft plans to veto bill on hidden weapons

11/20/03

Sandy Theis
Plain Dealer Bureau Chief


Columbus - Gov. Bob Taft said he will veto legislation to allow Ohio residents to carry concealed weapons - unless it requires the state to disclose names of those who are issued gun permits.

Taft's newfound concerns could derail the long-awaited gun bill because the Senate appears to lack the votes needed to override a veto.

The governor's rare veto threat comes as legislators try to iron out differences between House- and Senate-passed versions of the bill. Both versions, however, call for exempting permit information from public scrutiny.

In a letter to House and Senate leaders dated Tuesday, Taft said people have the right to know whether their friends, enemies or neighbors have a license to carry a concealed weapon.

"It's also important for the public [and, on behalf of the public, the news media] to have access to basic information about the permit process itself," Taft wrote, "information to determine, for example, how many permits get issued and where they are issued."

In Florida and other states, newspapers have exposed flaws in gun-permitting laws by showing that felons and people confined to mental hospitals were accidentally issued permits.

More recently enacted gun laws, including ones in Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota and New Mexico, bar the public identification of permit holders. And the gun lobby is attempting to close permit records in some states where they are now open. They argue that barring public scrutiny deters crime because criminals don't know who is armed.

Taft disagrees, and asked lawmakers to: require a licensee's name, date of birth and county of residence to be public; and shield from disclosure information about an applicant's mental competency, drug abuse or alcoholism.

House Speaker Larry Householder dismissed Taft's request.

"The whole idea of concealed carry is that criminals don't know if you're armed," Householder spokesman Dwight Crum said.

A Senate spokeswoman said the chamber is "disappointed" that Taft did not raise the public records issues sooner and said the conference committee will confine its debate to differences between the House and Senate bills.

Taft spokesman Orest Holubec said the governor grew concerned about the disclosure provisions after The Plain Dealer and other newspapers began calling attention to them.

Frank Deaner, executive director of the Ohio Newspaper Association, praised Taft's action, saying, "He's taking the legislation in the right direction."




www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1069324432246581.xml

Edited to add story and link

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:49:57 AM EDT
Taft will veto any CCW bill, this is just the latest reason.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:56:03 AM EDT
Asshole.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 4:08:44 AM EDT
That fucktard Taft. He is ruining the state, and then this.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 4:15:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 5:33:36 AM EDT
My suggestion here is pretty simple. Make the records public in the same way that driver's licenses are public records. That is, if one wants to know someone else' driving record, then they must specifically request from the department of motor vehicles the drivers license information of that individual. This system satisfies public records, and keeps a modicum of privacy. In reality, if they are publishing that John Smith, Dob xx/xx/xx of Monroe County, has a CCW it is really no big deal to me, as I'm sure that there are many such John Smiths or Olaf Stanislaski's or Lillian Jones' out there. As long as they are not publishing specific street addresses then its really not that big a deal to the law abiding.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:16:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:19:40 AM EDT
Yes, you can. If you ask for them at the courthouse specifically and by name and date of birth.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:47:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRicker:
So, can I have the addresses of all violent felons convicted in this state, please?



Does the name and address of every convicted felon get listed in the paper?

Does the name and address of every formerly incarcerated felon get listed in the paper?

Why should my name and address be listed in the paper when I am exercising a Constitutionally guaranteed right?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:02:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:07:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MickeyMouse:
The lying S.O.B. is really a democrap. The POS does whatever his wife tells him to do! He will NEVER sign ANY pro-gun bill so why consider any of the insane amendments he pushes? The legislature should pass a good bill and challenge the bastard to veto it. At least that way it becomes clear who the problems are. A bad bill is worse than none!

Can anyone name ONE THING good about Taft? (other that he is on his LAST term!)



Uh-huh!

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:16:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 7:27:00 AM EDT by Slash]

Originally Posted By shotar:
My suggestion here is pretty simple. Make the records public in the same way that driver's licenses are public records. That is, if one wants to know someone else' driving record, then they must specifically request from the department of motor vehicles the drivers license information of that individual. This system satisfies public records, and keeps a modicum of privacy. In reality, if they are publishing that John Smith, Dob xx/xx/xx of Monroe County, has a CCW it is really no big deal to me, as I'm sure that there are many such John Smiths or Olaf Stanislaski's or Lillian Jones' out there. As long as they are not publishing specific street addresses then its really not that big a deal to the law abiding.



The problem is, it will never end there.

Once the database is made public, eventually it will include everything up to and including your damn blood type.
Do you want your employer checking their payroll list against the CCW list?

There is no good reason why this info should be part of public record.
My 'friends and neighbors' have no business knowing if that bulge under my jacket is a 1911, or if I just ate one (dozen) too many donuts.
This is just another infringement on out rights.

"You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything" ...


Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:28:01 AM EDT
I will never forget Bob Taft speaking at a campaign dinner in Cincinnati where he proclaimed, "Elect me Governor and you will have CCW in Ohio."
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:56:14 AM EDT
please note how I worded this. Some are under the impression that this would create a searchable list and that all one would have to do is grab the big sheet of paper and go searching for names. One can however make records public but not allow fishing expeditions by simply doing what the DMV already does. Making it a specific request item. That is, if you want to check your neighbors driving record, you fill out the form stating specifically who's driving record you want checked, then send it in, and wait, they will then send you the info. Now that is really too much of a PITA for most people, and even newspapers to spend their time doing. Its all in the details of how such information is made public.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 9:39:53 AM EDT
Shotar -

I understood what you said. Despite my public education, I do have a fairly good grasp of the english language.
(And my comprehension is pretty good when I pay attention and READ instead of skimming.)

My point is that it's a 'slippery slope'.

I remember when it was very difficult, if not impossible for anyone but LEOs to access BMV records.
Now, almost anyone with a computer and some determination can pull up a MVR. Add to that insurance companies, credit reporting agencies, etc.
I can easily see the same thing happening with CCW records.

Maybe I've got my tin-foil hat on too tight, but I just don't think that its anyone else's damn business.

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 10:36:04 AM EDT
I don't think its anyone's business, neither do I think its the end of the world.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:47:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 2:34:59 PM EDT
Pretty much everyone already knows who I am and many where I live so thats not a real issue to me. As to publishing addresses, phone#s etc. No, I would not think its a good idea. That is not however what he's asking for. He is asking for Name, DOB- to prove adulthood no doubt, and county, probably for statistical purposes. I think its sort of absurd, but I don't think its the evil deed its being made out to be. In fact, what it does is appease an anti segment, while giving them really nothing of value. Will the newspapers spend money $$$$ and valuable ad space to print this information. Maybe for the initial novelty, but then I would say not. Why waste money for something so few people really care about when it does nothing to sell newspapers. I'm sure Mike Jones age 35 from Cleveland would be really bothered as the criminals try to figure out which 35 year old mike it is that has a gun???? In fact, this is a BS proposal that really amounts to alot of hoopla with no substance. As stated, access to the information does not mean handing out printouts to anyone that asks. It means that a person goes to whereever these records are stored, asks if specific person ABC has a permit, and gets the answer. Now, unless the person was really a person of interest, why would they bother? Like I said, noise with little meaning or substance. Want my driving record, feel free to drive to Columbus and file the DMV form. I have specifically not blocked mine even though the law specifically allows Deputy Sheriff's and other LEOs to do so.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 2:55:29 PM EDT
Does Ohio have a recall provision in its Constitution?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red-Leg:
Does Ohio have a recall provision in its Constitution?



Unfortunately no. Only in the case of malfeasance of office, which pretty much means a criminal conviction.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:10:17 PM EDT
I don't know but I have heard rumblings of this.

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:13:15 PM EDT
650 million surplus to 1 billion deficit in 6 months. Does that qualify him as a thief???

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:31:22 PM EDT
Taft is such a sorry ass excuse for a Republican I just want to put my fist through something whenever I hear or read of his misdeeds.

Thirty plus states have CCW and we're still wating.

It is a good thing this is his last term.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 4:43:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 9:06:20 AM EDT
If I have a CCW it's none of the publics god damn busuness. PERIOD.
Shotar I hate to say this becouse you have always seemed a reasonable man in the past but, your insistance that this "list" is no big deal makes you sound a little like a JBT. You know damn good and well the goverment will NEVER stop fucking us over and trying to take our rights.
Incremenalism is why this country is so FUCKED UP now.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 9:28:40 AM EDT
While we're at lets have a list for eveyone who owns a:
baseball bat
kitchen knife
hammer
tire iron
screwdriver
2x4
When checking ones driving record you are checking for things that person has done that are wrong or CRIMINAL.
Exersizing my constutional rights IS NOT A CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 10:53:11 AM EDT
Apparently you missed my point. People who have a medical license are on a list, people who are nurses are on a list, people who own an automobile are on a list, people who sell fireworks are on a list. These lists are not however generally published as lists. You go to the appropriate office, and ask if such and such person has such and such license.

As I stated, I don't particularly care for such lists either, but will not make it the be all and end all of this legislation.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:10:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
I will never forget Bob Taft speaking at a campaign dinner in Cincinnati where he proclaimed, "Elect me Governor and you will have CCW in Ohio."


That was the plan and he got my vote...that one time and never again since!
I wonder who's on tap for the next governership?
Write this one off.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:30:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
I will never forget Bob Taft speaking at a campaign dinner in Cincinnati where he proclaimed, "Elect me Governor and you will have CCW in Ohio."


That was the plan and he got my vote...that one time and never again since!
I wonder who's on tap for the next governership?
Write this one off.



He must go away, I do not think he likes Ohio !
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:38:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 4:42:17 PM EDT by glimmerman68]
Damn AW4EVER, did the disconnector spring break in your 1919a4 again???



Link Posted: 11/21/2003 7:27:40 PM EDT
Screw Taft. Open carry works. If that's what they want, let's give it to them. I'm carrying at all times, now. So far, so good.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 9:06:41 PM EDT
I dont know what all the fuss is about. The Ohio contitution is clear.

"All men are, by nature, free and independent, and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and seekingand obtaining happiness and safety."

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

Law abiding citezens are clearly allowed to conceal carry for the purpose of protecting themselves/property under the OHio constitution. Taft just hasnt read it correctly yet. Maybe some of us law abiding citizens need to get some jail time so more will recognize whats going on here. Jail time by excersising out rights. But that wont be me because Im a good American and a humble ohioin. Dont wanna cause no trouble you know


Link Posted: 11/21/2003 9:55:45 PM EDT
No. Didn't break another spring yet. I'm just sick and tired of that worthless SOB Taft. I normaly don't wish anyone ill but, if Taft were on fire I wouldn't even piss on him. However if he were drowding I may toss him a LARGE rock to hold onto.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 10:28:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By siennfein:
I dont know what all the fuss is about. The Ohio contitution is clear.

"All men are, by nature, free and independent, and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and seekingand obtaining happiness and safety."

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

Law abiding citezens are clearly allowed to conceal carry for the purpose of protecting themselves/property under the OHio constitution. Taft just hasnt read it correctly yet. Maybe some of us law abiding citizens need to get some jail time so more will recognize whats going on here. Jail time by excersising out rights. But that wont be me because Im a good American and a humble ohioin. Dont wanna cause no trouble you know





Unofortunately, they way the Ohio Constitution is worded affords no right to CCW. It merely states that we have the "Right to bear arms," but does not specify in what capacity. Therefore, this allows the State to regulate the capacity in which we excersice this right. As long as the right is granted (Open Carry), they can regulate the manor in which it is permited. This is basically what the Ohio Supreme Court just stated when they reaffirmed our right to Open Carry. This really sucks for us.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 6:12:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JCKnife:
Screw Taft. Open carry works. If that's what they want, let's give it to them. I'm carrying at all times, now. So far, so good.



I agree, to a point.

However, it is still illegal for us to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle.

Link Posted: 11/22/2003 6:37:03 AM EDT
Seinn --

Apparently you missed the Ohio Supreme Court decision which clearly stated that the right to bear arms doesn't included bearing them concealed. They specificially stated, however, that open carry was completely legal.

The fact that the Ohio Supreme Court is incapable of reading the Ohio Constitution is not relavant.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:14:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Seinn --

Apparently you missed the Ohio Supreme Court decision which clearly stated that the right to bear arms doesn't included bearing them concealed. They specificially stated, however, that open carry was completely legal.

The fact that the Ohio Supreme Court is incapable of reading the Ohio Constitution is not relavant.

-- Chuck



So your saying I cant interpret the constitution to whatever suites me best?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 7:30:35 PM EDT
Since the suckwad court said that we can open carry, people have started to wear pistols on their belts. And I guess thats a good thing. But it doesnt really get the point across.

How long do you think it would take to get concealed carry if everyone who wanted to were to suddenly strap on their favorite AR, AK, M1A, FAL, Rem 870, whatever? Since the supreme court has said that we can carry openly, the cops cant bust you for that, no matter how much they may want to. And I think that Sally Soccermom is going to ger her panties in a wad MUCH faster over an AK that is glaring back at her, than a 9mm she can only see if she looks.

If the liberalcrybabycommies see guys walking around with rifles and shotguns, they are going to make a stink. Its what they do. Hell, its the ONLY thing they do, cry about stuff. But they cant stop us, courtesy of the supreme ("we cant read") court. So, they start to cry, and we can come back with "You know, if the .gov would just pass the concealed carry bill WE want, instead of the crap Taft wants, we wouldnt have to scare you with our big, evil looking rifles".

Who knows, maybe, just MAYBE, we'll be able to get thru their thick skulls, and they can cry to their ligislators, wanting the same thing that we want.

This would probably work better in Cincinnatababwe, Columbusomalia, Cleveswaziland, or Tuh-lee-DUH, than where I live. There are more people in probably 2 square miles of Columbusomalia than in my entire county. And I dont think that the Amish would walk around carrying their shotguns.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:37:28 PM EDT
Shotar,

Here's another reason why I don't feel that CCW records should be made public:


Fairborn man assaulted, robbed answering door
Dayton Daily News
November 26, 2003

FAIRBORN | A 20-year-old man told police that four masked men rushed into his apartment Monday and put a gun to his head before stealing two handguns, Fairborn police reported.

The man said he opened the door of his apartment, in the 200 block of Dayton-Yellow Springs Road, about 9 p.m. believing a neighbor was knocking. He told police the men barged in and began assaulting him, but when he realized the gun one of them had was a plastic toy he struggled and yelled for help, according to a police report. Police said he told them the suspects fled when neighbors came to his aid.

Witnesses also told police that two semi-automatic handguns — a black Lama .45-caliber and a chrome Jennings .380-caliber — were stolen, according to the report.

[hl]

Commentary:
Since the victim's firearms were clearly the intended target of these criminals, it is obvious they knew they were present in his home. If concealed carry licenseholders' personal information is made open to the public, criminals like these will be provided a list of Ohio homes in which they can find firearms to steal.

These criminals had a toy gun when they invaded this home. Because they knew exactly which home to rob in order to get what they wanted, they were able to use that information to assault this man and steal his property. Now they have two real guns.



www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/1126fairborn.html

www.ohioccw.org/article1595.html

Page Hometown » Ohio
Top Top