If you are walking down a city street with wife/G/F/parents/kids and are confronted by five ganstas with knives and firearms . . . what do you do?

You can't retreat.

Do you walk into the threat and establish fire superiority?

Walk & Shoot afternoon at the Impact Zone

Spent yesterday afternoon with a suppressed Glock .22 & my M-11 practicing walking and shooting.

I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags on the SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags.

Of course, If I was John Wayne or Chuck Norris, I would just look at them and they would all fall over dead.

Quoted: I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags on the SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags. Of course, If I was John Wayne or Chuck Norris, I would just look at them and they would all fall over dead.

Ok, Im very confused.   They never have to change mags in the movies?  



Seriously though, it is VERY surprising how hard it is to walk, shoot and reload at the same time.  You don't realize it until you do it.

Of course, If I was John Wayne or Chuck Norris, I would just look at them and they would all fall over dead.

gangsters dont even walk down the same street as Chuck, they smell him a mile away and scamper off like frightened deer!

Great video SC! Are there any more shoots like this? I've never done that type of shooting and have been wanting to try. Standing at the line is plain boring now....

Quoted: Quoted: I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags on the SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags. Of course, If I was John Wayne or Chuck Norris, I would just look at them and they would all fall over dead. Ok, Im very confused.   They never have to change mags in the movies?   Seriously though, it is VERY surprising how hard it is to walk, shoot and reload at the same time.  You don't realize it until you do it.

That is why practice is soooooo important.

Too many guys just plink and don't work on real life situational tactics.
Hopefully someone will pick up on this and spend a little time drilling this exact type of muzzle awarness/mag change.

Very good to do a lot of.

Thanks for sharing

That looks very cool, Impressive as well.

Quoted: Ok, Im very confused.   They never have to change mags in the movies?   Seriously though, it is VERY surprising how hard it is to walk, shoot and reload at the same time.  You don't realize it until you do it.

Like you'd know, you never come out and play with us at the matches.......

Quoted: That looks very cool, Impressive as well.

Its impressive until you see someone like the owner of the Impact Zone do it.

Quoted: Quoted: That looks very cool, Impressive as well. Its impressive until you see someone like the owner of the Impact Zone do it.

This situation would never happen in a hundred million years. Even if it did, I would most likely NOT be carrying a suppressed FA Mac-11 with several mags.

Assuming that hell froze over and this scenario did occur, im pretty sure i could retreat back down the city street that i was walking on with my family.

I would not be the first to engage and i would NOT rush toward's the enemy who has superior numbers and weapons.

If they're 25-50 yards out im going to retreat or go for cover and not even draw my weapon untill they start shooting.

What the hell kind of training are you doing when you plan on rushing 5 guys with weapons while you have your family with you?

Quoted: Seriously though, it is VERY surprising how hard it is to walk, shoot and reload at the same time.  You don't realize it until you do it.

Start shooting shooting IDPA or IPSC and it becomes second nature. I'm not sure I remember how to reload without moving.

Quoted: This situation would never happen in a hundred million years. Even if it did, I would most likely NOT be carrying a suppressed FA Mac-11 with several mags.

Then you obviously are not properly prepared for the city streets.

Let me suggest something for you:

Assuming that hell froze over and this scenario did occur, im pretty sure i could retreat back down the city street that i was walking on with my family.

Really?  Let me ask you:  How are you going to coordinate movement of several people and maintain cover on the gangstas?

I would not be the first to engage

I never said I would be the first to engage.  however, if they had firearms out and started to point them at you, are you saying that you would not engage tghem until they started shooting at you?

and i would NOT rush toward's the enemy who has superior numbers and weapons.

Why not?

If they're 25-50 yards out im going to retreat or go for cover and not even draw my weapon untill they start shooting.

Well, duh.  But what if they are 50 ft?  30ft?  At what point do you turn and fight?

What the hell kind of training are you doing when you plan on rushing 5 guys with weapons while you have your family with you?

The idea would be to gain fire superioroty and give the family time to disengage while you fight a holding action.

Basically, it creates distance between teh armed bad guys and your family.

Quoted: Quoted: This situation would never happen in a hundred million years. Even if it did, I would most likely NOT be carrying a suppressed FA Mac-11 with several mags. Then you obviously are not properly prepared for the city streets. Let me suggest something for you: www.atomiclabrat.com/images/Emoticon/mac10.gif Assuming that hell froze over and this scenario did occur, im pretty sure i could retreat back down the city street that i was walking on with my family. Really?  Let me ask you:  How are you going to coordinate movement of several people and maintain cover on the gangstas? I would not be the first to engage I never said I would be the first to engage.  however, if they had firearms out and started to point them at you, are you saying that you would not engage tghem until they started shooting at you? and i would NOT rush toward's the enemy who has superior numbers and weapons. Why not? If they're 25-50 yards out im going to retreat or go for cover and not even draw my weapon untill they start shooting. Well, duh.  But what if they are 50 ft?  30ft?  At what point do you turn and fight? What the hell kind of training are you doing when you plan on rushing 5 guys with weapons while you have your family with you? The idea would be to gain fire superioroty and give the family time to disengage while you fight a holding action. Basically, it creates distance between teh armed bad guys and your family.

I dont know, its a sucky situation either way and it will probably never happen.

If i got into CHL practice really heavily, i would probably expect to engage single or double targets at close range rather than the urban warfare type of engagement you conveyed in that video.

With today's horrible university shooting, I would think this thread had a little more legs than this (no pun intended, ILikeLegs).

 This type of training, regardless of the firepower used to train, prepares one for contingencies that one cannot foresee.  If it's a regular un-supressed 9mm, 45, or a full milspec M4, it's about preparing your mindset to confront what may appear at first as overpowering odds.  Not only this, but doing so in a purposeful, goal-oriented manner trains the mind to handle situational reasoning.
 I've heard three accounts of today's events saying that in at least one classroom, the gunman had the victims line-up against the wall, and systematically shot them one-by-one. The fear of the situation, or the fear of the guns (a 9mm and a .22???) rendered the victims helpless, or so it appears.
 If just one of the 10+ kids lined against the walls had some level of situational training, perhaps they would have taken a chair, a desk, or a frigging pencil and tried to bring this prick down.  Then there might have been a better chance for the 20+ other victims to walk out of this situation.
 I don't want to make this argument about gun-control/victim-disarmament - it's about presence of mind and preparation.  It doesn't matter if you have an anti-tank launcher or a sling-shot, these types of scenarios are useful to train individuals to react in a calculated, measured fashion, which we're sorely lacking these days.

If I was prepared enough to carry a suppressed MAC with multiple mags out with my family for a day at the park, but let myself be cornered and not notice 5 gangbangers beforehand, I REALLY have some issues with my training and mindset priorities.

I shoot a bit of three gun and this is a common scenario.  Fun to shoot, more fun if the targets shoot back like they do at Tiger Valley with the paintball gun.  Not very realistic in the real world with SMG's.  

Run a similar stage with a forced tac reload (using only the tac reload mag later on in the stage), handgun only, and targets at various ranges with you being required to use cover that requires you to squat down, and then have the paintballs flying at you from 30' away, then the fun starts.


 

Quoted: If you are walking down a city street with wife/G/F/parents/kids and are confronted by five ganstas with knives and firearms . . . what do you do? You can't retreat. Do you walk into the threat and establish fire superiority? Walk & Shoot afternoon at the Impact Zone Spent yesterday afternoon with a suppressed Glock .22 & my M-11 practicing walking and shooting. I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags on the SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags. Of course, If I was John Wayne or Chuck Norris, I would just look at them and they would all fall over dead.

Well first, if you got rid of that damn cigar, the 5 bangers would not have seen you coming at night, it glows. Also, it blocks your field of vision, so that you could not see them until the last minute..Also, get rid of the Miata and buy a truck, you could just run them over...
Seriously, good vid..Good practice..Real world or not, it is always good to practice different situations. In my last shooting, went into idiot mode and walked towards the 2 of them and gave up cover. 1 10 rd mag and no cell phone..STOOPID but I survived.Not my firearms of choice for bugging out but use what you got..
In closing, Dude, gotta work on the spell check...just kiddin as you would say..Later..Pike

Quoted: Of course, If I was John Wayne or Chuck Norris, I would just look at them and they would all fall over dead.

John Wayne - they run for their lives

Chuck Norris - hear that foot slicing through the atmosphere, too late to run.

You - use Vader mindtrick to make gangstas turn around and come back, choke one until eyes bug out, they apologize and then run away.
(well, that's what some gunshow patrons tol' me would happen)



t

What I want to know is how you train for the deafening roar when you touch off that high powered handgun?  We all practice with muffs or earplugs but how many have actually heard their weapon fired without hearing protection? which you won't be wearing at that come to Jesus meeting you're talking about.
I know I have no desire to touch off my Glock or any other firearm inside my house.  I touched off my .357 outside with no hearing protection about 30 years ago and have not forgotten the pain.
cb

You should walk around with your com-tac 2s turned on for super bat hearing

No wy to train for that without destroying your hearing.

However, if you train consistently i.e. trigger technique, proper grip, front sight, front sight, walk, trigger technique, etc. your body should do what it has been trained to do.

Watch me in teh video:  when changing mags, I am dropping the SMGs barrel off the threat and not keeping my eyes on the threat.  My own poor training has resulted in those bad habits.

The guys pointing out the difficulty of shooting and moving are right on.  If you haven't done it, give a whirl.  The first response I have gotten from the people I have coaxed into it is some thing along the lines of "d@mn, I couldn't hit Sh@t"

With that knowledge, and assuming the average banga doesn't train/practice,I think my first reaction in the scenario given (assuming weapons were drawn by the assailaints) would be to tell my family to run like hell while I did my best to engage the threats while maintaining movement on my part.  Take it for what its worth, I'm no ninja and I'm sure I could just freeze up just as well as the next guy too.

The Impact Zone is the only place in the houston area that I am aware of where you can practice scenarios like that.  That alone makes it worth its weight in gold.

...and oh yeah, as SC-Texas pointed out, the owner can shoot.

Quoted: What I want to know is how you train for the deafening roar when you touch off that high powered handgun?  We all practice with muffs or earplugs but how many have actually heard their weapon fired without hearing protection? which you won't be wearing at that come to Jesus meeting you're talking about. I know I have no desire to touch off my Glock or any other firearm inside my house.  I touched off my .357 outside with no hearing protection about 30 years ago and have not forgotten the pain. cb

Actually under the pressure of an actual shoot not a drill, I really never heard the rounds go off. There was the noise of a firearm but it sounded very distant, no ringing, no pain. I don't recommend this on a regular basis but that it the way it was for me. Practice with muffs/plugs and then when the real deal happens, if it ever happens, you are prepared. In sports, the coaches would always say, "you play like you practice". A good rule to live by. I hate to agree with an attorney but SC has a point..Practice,practice,practice...Pike (okay, just jacking with ya on the attorney comment)

Quoted: What I want to know is how you train for the deafening roar when you touch off that high powered handgun?  We all practice with muffs or earplugs but how many have actually heard their weapon fired without hearing protection? which you won't be wearing at that come to Jesus meeting you're talking about. I know I have no desire to touch off my Glock or any other firearm inside my house.  I touched off my .357 outside with no hearing protection about 30 years ago and have not forgotten the pain. cb

It's like shooting deer from inside a deer stand.  Granted the muzzle is outside the window, but still, my 270 & 30.06 are very loud at the range when shoot them so I where ear protection.  When I'm shooting at a deer, the adrenaline is pumping and the sound of the shot is the last thing I think about.  It's all in where your mind is.   If your shooting for your life, your not going to feel a thing in your ears.  And before someone wants to tell me how you are destroying your ear drums, BULLCRAP!  I'm going to shoot once or twice at a time out of the deer stand.   If I'm shooting for my life, I might dump a mag.  Neither of which are going to cause permanent damage.

Quoted: Neither of which are going to cause permanent damage.

I have to disagree with you about the permanent damage.  I have very selective hearing loss which must be due to shooting firearms as I was growing up.  Never had a mag to dump and never shot much except to be sure my rifle was sighted in and then at deer and maybe for a while at jacks but I cannot hear crickets that bug the heck out of my wife and I also can't hear low level sounds.  Can't hear the stove timer when it goes off.
Believe me, this constant water rushing sound in my ears isn't easy to hear over.
whether you think about it or not doesn't change the damage it does.
cb

Quoted: Quoted: Neither of which are going to cause permanent damage. I have to disagree with you about the permanent damage.  I have very selective hearing loss which must be due to shooting firearms as I was growing up.  Never had a mag to dump and never shot much except to be sure my rifle was sighted in and then at deer and maybe for a while at jacks but I cannot hear crickets that bug the heck out of my wife and I also can't hear low level sounds.  Can't hear the stove timer when it goes off. Believe me, this constant water rushing sound in my ears isn't easy to hear over. whether you think about it or not doesn't change the damage it does. cb

I understand but my point was that you are not going to shoot more than a few times at a perp.  A few shots in a once in a lifetime instance is not going to damage your hearing for life.  More than likely, your not going to dump several 32 round mags (in a Mac or Uzi or whatever) at a perp.  In a real world situation, you going to shoot a few rounds before either the perps scatter or you get away.  

As far as deer hunting,  your going to shoot once or twice in a weekend.  

That being said, if your shooting a high powered rifle at jack rabbits all weekend long then yes, it could pose a problem to your hearing.