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Posted: 11/11/2012 4:24:27 AM EST
Okay, I have heard of the trust method of obtaining a suppressor. I visited Wade's Eastside and was informed that they had a 'can' form that they said they had a lawyer set up to use. Anyone use this form? Thoughts/comments?
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 4:33:53 AM EST
I used Cascade Arsenal in Snohomish. Chip had a similar set up. I was in and done with the trust paperwork within an hour. It was a very easy experience.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 4:48:50 AM EST
I have a quicken trust so I can't personally comment however I would think that if a reputable place has the set up, and they've sold a few cans on it then it should be fine. Your going to a reputable place and not some pawn store so I would think its legit. Bad comes to worse ask them how many people have used the forms. Trust me, if you send off the form and there's an issue they'll kick it back for you to fix.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 4:52:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 7:32:23 AM EST
I don't provide trusts to my customers because I'm not a lawyer and I don't want any liability if the trust has an issue someday that could blow back on me. If you have a lawyer do it for you, then they'll be on the hook to defend you if that trust is determined to be faulty. Not worth the risk to me. Hell, you can do the Nortwest Gun Law Group's Bronse trust all online for $100. Seems very reasonable to me.

Not affiliated with them, nor do I get a "kickback" or referral fee.

As for the ATF kicking back stuff if it isn't right? Yeah sometimes, but I've also had one-sided Form 4's come back approved. One guy had a suppressor approved on his trust when the trust name was completely wrong. It got caught on his second transfer (I did his second transfer, not his first), and he had to change his trust name to match the existing, approved F4. A friend bought a suppressor from me, after buying 3 from other places. His F4 got kicked backed because of a missing Schedule B. All 3 of his previous F4's went through without a Schedule B (beneficiary designation in his case). So no, they don't always catch the issues.....
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 7:43:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By RainierArms-Sales:
We've had a ton of customers go through Dennis Brislawn at Northwest Gun Law Group. Well respected, trusted (pun intended) and legit legal trusts.


I have a silver level trust with Dennis Brislawn. Instead of just being me who is allowed to use my cans, my wife, kids, father in law, and one good friend are listed as successor trustees, so they have the ability to use my cans withou me being present. I can also add trusted friends and family with a single form for either temporary periods or for the life of the trust. It also allows you to specifically designate beneficiaries for your toys upon your death.

Chip has sold a lot of cans to my friends and they haven't had any delay or problems status issues. If nobody will never use your suppressor without you, Chip's trust or other similar gun shop trusts, will suit you. You can always upgrade later after your initial purchases have been made because you will likely own these things for life, as well as you heirs.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 9:06:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2012 9:19:46 AM EST by Kaliburz]
Originally Posted By RainierArms-Sales:
We've had a ton of customers go through Dennis Brislawn at Northwest Gun Law Group. Well respected, trusted (pun intended) and legit legal trusts.


I wonder if that is where the place I went to had their "generic" trust done. I might as well say it, Wade's Eastside says they have a "trust" form that people use.....(by the way, I'm not from Western Washington, but was in the area for work, and dropped by Wade's.)

Plus, I'm wondering if I could get a Full Auto into the trust....IF I can even find one inside the state of WA....or (well, that's a different topic....but still....) thinking aloud here.



Link Posted: 11/11/2012 9:41:44 AM EST
+1 for Dennis Brislawn. His services are worth the price.

You will not be able to get an MG into a trust in WA, because those that are legally present are grandfathered in, and must go out of state if they are ever transferred.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 10:29:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Terrato:
+1 for Dennis Brislawn. His services are worth the price.

You will not be able to get an MG into a trust in WA, because those that are legally present are grandfathered in, and must go out of state if they are ever transferred.


Actually, I thought that getting a MG was a no-no. Wasn't 100% sure about if the ones in the state had to leave or could be sold to another IN the state.....
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 6:03:27 PM EST
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 9:36:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.


NW Gun Law group is different and specifically set up for NFA, though generic.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 4:26:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 4:37:47 PM EST by Redtazdog]
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.

You need to read more about a trust as there was never a trust designed for guns or nfa until around 2007 when the legals found out they could put the scare in people to make money.
Anything that is put on a trust to aid in the transfer of such items means nothing as it is the responsibility of the beneficiary to transfer a car, house, business, guns, nfa items or anything that needs to be transferred.
It is your resposiblity to know if the beneficiary on your trust is legal to own such items up until the day you die and a trust with rules about having back ground checks or other legal hoops to jump through will not keep a beneficiary gone bad from getting the goods as there is nobody to police them after you die.
You can make a simple page of instruction on how to transfer items on the trust if you want but they are not needed to have a valid trust for guns or nfa.
Many have been using a standard trust for guns and nfa since I was a kid and I have never heard of anyone have trouble of any sort when the goods get passed down.
When there is a trust involved that has gun anything most people seek legal advise as other family members are after the goods.
If you only need a simple trust than a generic one works fine but if you need a complicated trust to fit your bigger needs then seek legal help,

Link Posted: 11/18/2012 8:20:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Terrato:
+1 for Dennis Brislawn. His services are worth the price.[div]

+2
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:22:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 11:29:50 PM EST by Unicorn]
Originally Posted By BD1a:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.


NW Gun Law group is different and specifically set up for NFA, though generic.


By generic I meant the crap that is given out by some gun shops, even though that could be considered giving legal advice without a license, or Quicken, etc. The ones by NW Gunlaw group are not generic in that they are for anything, they are firearms specific. Their silver and gold aren't just NFA items either, they are for all firearms.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:28:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.

You need to read more about a trust as there was never a trust designed for guns or nfa until around 2007 when the legals found out they could put the scare in people to make money.
Anything that is put on a trust to aid in the transfer of such items means nothing as it is the responsibility of the beneficiary to transfer a car, house, business, guns, nfa items or anything that needs to be transferred.
It is your resposiblity to know if the beneficiary on your trust is legal to own such items up until the day you die and a trust with rules about having back ground checks or other legal hoops to jump through will not keep a beneficiary gone bad from getting the goods as there is nobody to police them after you die.
You can make a simple page of instruction on how to transfer items on the trust if you want but they are not needed to have a valid trust for guns or nfa.
Many have been using a standard trust for guns and nfa since I was a kid and I have never heard of anyone have trouble of any sort when the goods get passed down.
When there is a trust involved that has gun anything most people seek legal advise as other family members are after the goods.
If you only need a simple trust than a generic one works fine but if you need a complicated trust to fit your bigger needs then seek legal help,



You obviously have no clue what I am talking about or what is in the trusts given by Brislawn. The instructions in the binder for the benificiary are there as a convenience to assist your survivors in not breaking the law.
Just because people have been using craptastic trusts for years doesn't mean they are the best, or even valid. Many slip past the ATF because they are receiving a hundred thousand or more a year. They have a quick checklist they do down and as long as it looks ok at quick glance the box is checked and you get your stamp. Someone in another state got an SBR with the reason being zombies. Doesn't mean it's correct, or that it will stand if it ever gets looked at for whatever reason. Sure, the odds of it coming up later are slim, but who wants to be the first? Why not have a solid one from the beginning? I'd rather trust a lawyer who does this for a living, than some schmuck behind the counter of an overpriced store just wanting to sell you a can at above MSRP.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:14:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:18:41 AM EST by Redtazdog]
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.

You need to read more about a trust as there was never a trust designed for guns or nfa until around 2007 when the legals found out they could put the scare in people to make money.
Anything that is put on a trust to aid in the transfer of such items means nothing as it is the responsibility of the beneficiary to transfer a car, house, business, guns, nfa items or anything that needs to be transferred.
It is your resposiblity to know if the beneficiary on your trust is legal to own such items up until the day you die and a trust with rules about having back ground checks or other legal hoops to jump through will not keep a beneficiary gone bad from getting the goods as there is nobody to police them after you die.
You can make a simple page of instruction on how to transfer items on the trust if you want but they are not needed to have a valid trust for guns or nfa.
Many have been using a standard trust for guns and nfa since I was a kid and I have never heard of anyone have trouble of any sort when the goods get passed down.
When there is a trust involved that has gun anything most people seek legal advise as other family members are after the goods.
If you only need a simple trust than a generic one works fine but if you need a complicated trust to fit your bigger needs then seek legal help,



You obviously have no clue what I am talking about or what is in the trusts given by Brislawn. The instructions in the binder for the benificiary are there as a convenience to assist your survivors in not breaking the law. Thats fine as like I said you could add instructions on how to on a generic trust but that dousnt mean they can follow instructions or will follow through with them so chances are they will get help with or without instruction when it comes to gun anything
Just because people have been using craptastic trusts for years doesn't mean they are the best, or even valid. Many slip past the ATF because they are receiving a hundred thousand or more a year. They have a quick checklist they do down and as long as it looks ok at quick glance the box is checked and you get your stamp. Someone in another state got an SBR with the reason being zombies. Doesn't mean it's correct, or that it will stand if it ever gets looked at for whatever reason. Sure, the odds of it coming up later are slim, but who wants to be the first? Why not have a solid one from the beginning? I'd rather trust a lawyer who does this for a living, than some schmuck behind the counter of an overpriced store just wanting to sell you a can at above MSRP.

Like I said you need to read more about a trust
There is many criminals that steal for a living just like some of the legal smuucks do, most of them are not in the busness for you but more for the money they
take from you for very little that is done.
I took a couple of trust to two of the best legals in this state to have them proof read and this was way before the so called NFA trust was ever thought of.
A few years ago I went to see one of them again and told him about the NFA trust that some think they need and he laughed and and showed me the trust he has been using for the last 20+ years and it said nothing about NFA.
He said you can make a trust and have NFA words in it all you want and it is still works the same as a normal trust that you put you
base ball cards on or a trust you call a car trust.
Yes you can make a trust more complicated with instructions but you can do the same with the generic trust.
If anyone needs a legal to guide them from putting zombies on a trust or NFA forms than they probably shouldnt even own a gun.
At this time I have well over 30 NFA items some purchased and some built by me and not any
forms or a copy of my generic trust you call it has ever be thrown out.
I can see having a custom trust made to fit your needs. like the 200 items on your trust will be handed down to
Fives bennies by serial number or this gun goes to joe and this can goes to jim or this gun will be in uncle joes name until my son billy is of age to
have it ect ect.
When the NFA trust thing started I did some hard reading as the legal BS had me wondering about my own trust and I even called ATF to ask questions.
Funny thing is ATF told me more than 75% of the trust they see are made with PC software like QW
Do you even know what makes any trust valid, I do and I'm thinking that you dont and the legals have brain washed you into thinking they
are the only way.



Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:50:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:51:05 AM EST by Scollins]
Using a generic trust or a "gun trust" is up to the individual. But did you know that Washington's trust laws were heavily revamped as of January 2012? How about all of these requirements for trusts?
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=11.98

Did you know that you can't be the sole trustee AND beneficiary? I didn't......


The King County Bar Association put out some info: https://www.kcba.org/streaming/Documents/RPPT-Handout_2_February_2012.pdf


It is because of all of that that I don't provide trusts for my customers. I say go to Brislawn or get QW. Of course, QW is $50 and Brislawn is $100, so we aren't talking big bucks here.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:21:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.

You need to read more about a trust as there was never a trust designed for guns or nfa until around 2007 when the legals found out they could put the scare in people to make money.
Anything that is put on a trust to aid in the transfer of such items means nothing as it is the responsibility of the beneficiary to transfer a car, house, business, guns, nfa items or anything that needs to be transferred.
It is your resposiblity to know if the beneficiary on your trust is legal to own such items up until the day you die and a trust with rules about having back ground checks or other legal hoops to jump through will not keep a beneficiary gone bad from getting the goods as there is nobody to police them after you die.
You can make a simple page of instruction on how to transfer items on the trust if you want but they are not needed to have a valid trust for guns or nfa.
Many have been using a standard trust for guns and nfa since I was a kid and I have never heard of anyone have trouble of any sort when the goods get passed down.
When there is a trust involved that has gun anything most people seek legal advise as other family members are after the goods.
If you only need a simple trust than a generic one works fine but if you need a complicated trust to fit your bigger needs then seek legal help,



You obviously have no clue what I am talking about or what is in the trusts given by Brislawn. The instructions in the binder for the benificiary are there as a convenience to assist your survivors in not breaking the law. Thats fine as like I said you could add instructions on how to on a generic trust but that dousnt mean they can follow instructions or will follow through with them so chances are they will get help with or without instruction when it comes to gun anything
Just because people have been using craptastic trusts for years doesn't mean they are the best, or even valid. Many slip past the ATF because they are receiving a hundred thousand or more a year. They have a quick checklist they do down and as long as it looks ok at quick glance the box is checked and you get your stamp. Someone in another state got an SBR with the reason being zombies. Doesn't mean it's correct, or that it will stand if it ever gets looked at for whatever reason. Sure, the odds of it coming up later are slim, but who wants to be the first? Why not have a solid one from the beginning? I'd rather trust a lawyer who does this for a living, than some schmuck behind the counter of an overpriced store just wanting to sell you a can at above MSRP.

Like I said you need to read more about a trust
There is many criminals that steal for a living just like some of the legal smuucks do, most of them are not in the busness for you but more for the money they
take from you for very little that is done.
I took a couple of trust to two of the best legals in this state to have them proof read and this was way before the so called NFA trust was ever thought of.
A few years ago I went to see one of them again and told him about the NFA trust that some think they need and he laughed and and showed me the trust he has been using for the last 20+ years and it said nothing about NFA.
He said you can make a trust and have NFA words in it all you want and it is still works the same as a normal trust that you put you
base ball cards on or a trust you call a car trust.
Yes you can make a trust more complicated with instructions but you can do the same with the generic trust.
If anyone needs a legal to guide them from putting zombies on a trust or NFA forms than they probably shouldnt even own a gun.
At this time I have well over 30 NFA items some purchased and some built by me and not any
forms or a copy of my generic trust you call it has ever be thrown out.
I can see having a custom trust made to fit your needs. like the 200 items on your trust will be handed down to
Fives bennies by serial number or this gun goes to joe and this can goes to jim or this gun will be in uncle joes name until my son billy is of age to
have it ect ect.
When the NFA trust thing started I did some hard reading as the legal BS had me wondering about my own trust and I even called ATF to ask questions.
Funny thing is ATF told me more than 75% of the trust they see are made with PC software like QW
Do you even know what makes any trust valid, I do and I'm thinking that you dont and the legals have brain washed you into thinking they
are the only way.





Blah blah. The bullshit accepted years ago has been denied when the BATFE started getting stricter. There was a lot of whining about it over the past few years.
Keep using your stuff, I'll keep using one made by a lawyer who is also a shooter...

It also varies from examiner (or their assistant). Even Sandy's assistant for WA was doing it differently than Sandy in what she accepted.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:57:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 6:59:17 PM EST by Redtazdog]
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Those generic trusts don't have the words firearms or NFA in them, nor do they have info on how to transfer them if you die. They are not designed for firearms at all, much less NFA items.

You need to read more about a trust as there was never a trust designed for guns or nfa until around 2007 when the legals found out they could put the scare in people to make money.
Anything that is put on a trust to aid in the transfer of such items means nothing as it is the responsibility of the beneficiary to transfer a car, house, business, guns, nfa items or anything that needs to be transferred.
It is your resposiblity to know if the beneficiary on your trust is legal to own such items up until the day you die and a trust with rules about having back ground checks or other legal hoops to jump through will not keep a beneficiary gone bad from getting the goods as there is nobody to police them after you die.
You can make a simple page of instruction on how to transfer items on the trust if you want but they are not needed to have a valid trust for guns or nfa.
Many have been using a standard trust for guns and nfa since I was a kid and I have never heard of anyone have trouble of any sort when the goods get passed down.
When there is a trust involved that has gun anything most people seek legal advise as other family members are after the goods.
If you only need a simple trust than a generic one works fine but if you need a complicated trust to fit your bigger needs then seek legal help,



You obviously have no clue what I am talking about or what is in the trusts given by Brislawn. The instructions in the binder for the benificiary are there as a convenience to assist your survivors in not breaking the law. Thats fine as like I said you could add instructions on how to on a generic trust but that dousnt mean they can follow instructions or will follow through with them so chances are they will get help with or without instruction when it comes to gun anything
Just because people have been using craptastic trusts for years doesn't mean they are the best, or even valid. Many slip past the ATF because they are receiving a hundred thousand or more a year. They have a quick checklist they do down and as long as it looks ok at quick glance the box is checked and you get your stamp. Someone in another state got an SBR with the reason being zombies. Doesn't mean it's correct, or that it will stand if it ever gets looked at for whatever reason. Sure, the odds of it coming up later are slim, but who wants to be the first? Why not have a solid one from the beginning? I'd rather trust a lawyer who does this for a living, than some schmuck behind the counter of an overpriced store just wanting to sell you a can at above MSRP.

Like I said you need to read more about a trust
There is many criminals that steal for a living just like some of the legal smuucks do, most of them are not in the busness for you but more for the money they
take from you for very little that is done.
I took a couple of trust to two of the best legals in this state to have them proof read and this was way before the so called NFA trust was ever thought of.
A few years ago I went to see one of them again and told him about the NFA trust that some think they need and he laughed and and showed me the trust he has been using for the last 20+ years and it said nothing about NFA.
He said you can make a trust and have NFA words in it all you want and it is still works the same as a normal trust that you put you
base ball cards on or a trust you call a car trust.
Yes you can make a trust more complicated with instructions but you can do the same with the generic trust.
If anyone needs a legal to guide them from putting zombies on a trust or NFA forms than they probably shouldnt even own a gun.
At this time I have well over 30 NFA items some purchased and some built by me and not any
forms or a copy of my generic trust you call it has ever be thrown out.
I can see having a custom trust made to fit your needs. like the 200 items on your trust will be handed down to
Fives bennies by serial number or this gun goes to joe and this can goes to jim or this gun will be in uncle joes name until my son billy is of age to
have it ect ect.
When the NFA trust thing started I did some hard reading as the legal BS had me wondering about my own trust and I even called ATF to ask questions.
Funny thing is ATF told me more than 75% of the trust they see are made with PC software like QW
Do you even know what makes any trust valid, I do and I'm thinking that you dont and the legals have brain washed you into thinking they
are the only way.





Blah blah. The bullshit accepted years ago has been denied when the BATFE started getting stricter. There was a lot of whining about it over the past few years.
Keep using your stuff, I'll keep using one made by a lawyer who is also a shooter...

It also varies from examiner (or their assistant). Even Sandy's assistant for WA was doing it differently than Sandy in what she accepted.

Thats funny because the trust you call BS that was made back when both of us were only kids is still working and so is the generic trust that I have been using for 10 years now.
The lawyer's that proof read my trust have been shooters longer than both of us have been on earth and both have many toys we now cant have.
Another funny thing is I know a few dealers that have had problems with some of the trust from brislawn. omg it cant be.
And I'm still wondering if you even know how to make a trust valid


Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:17:00 PM EST
Does anyone have any expierience with the bronze trust offered for $100.
I just bought it and will have it notarized ASAP but it would be nice to hear
Some positive feedback from the members and industry partners.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:43:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By jonnyjeeps:
Does anyone have any expierience with the bronze trust offered for $100.
I just bought it and will have it notarized ASAP but it would be nice to hear
Some positive feedback from the members and industry partners.


My first two suppressors were purchased using the Bronze trust. Had an issue with the name as submitted on the application for the first one and on the trust. A call to Brislawn the day I found out about the error and it was fixed with Brislawn contacting BATFE directly that day. Part was my error on the ap, part was theirs on the trust. Happy with the speed of their resolution. Got the stamp 1 week later.

Second suppressor pending, due February or so. Upgraded trust to silver after the purchase the second item but before approval.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:53:00 PM EST
That's my plan, get the ball rolling with the can I've always wanted then upgrade later when sbr legislation
gets done
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 6:42:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:


Thats funny because the trust you call BS that was made back when both of us were only kids is still working and so is the generic trust that I have been using for 10 years now.
The lawyer's that proof read my trust have been shooters longer than both of us have been on earth and both have many toys we now cant have.
Another funny thing is I know a few dealers that have had problems with some of the trust from brislawn. omg it cant be.
And I'm still wondering if you even know how to make a trust valid


[/quote]

You keep missing the obvious. And taking what I say a step too far. Your trust has been checked.... You didn't get it from some gun shop who didn't t even bother to give you the original back. You didn't slap it together at 2am on your 18th beer.

Not everyone does that. You keep accusing me of not knowing how to make a trust valid.... there are a ton of people who don't even know what a trust is. Do you think it's better to just hand them something, tell them to sign and they still don't have a clue? Or to copy the first one they find on Google?

There are a lot of trusts floating around that people made that wouldn't t be accepted today. This I've seen firsthand whe people were denied using the same trust that worked a few years ago.
Part of that is the change in examiners, some stricter than others. Now that it's region based it should be more consistant.

I've also seen a ton of trusts that don't include spouses. If your hunting in E. WA and your can in here....and your wife has the combo could that not be construed as an illegal transfer? As she now is in physical possession?

The instructions you kept getting bent out of shape about were just there to be helpful. No shit it's not something that can be forced. It's to make it easier for your wife or kids who don't give a shit about your guns. Nothing more.
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