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Posted: 2/12/2007 12:37:36 AM EST
I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion for a spec for straight pull AR-15. I'd be mainly using it for general fun range shooting - typically 100/200/300 meters. Not a lot of competition shooting, maybe a bit of civilian service rifle and ETR. While I do some reloading I'd also want to shoot surplus RG ammo and not have any extraction issues.

Link Posted: 2/12/2007 12:40:22 AM EST
Vultures inbound

No, j/k, actually there are some very helpful and knowledgable chaps on here, but I'll leave you to sort out which ones they are
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 10:52:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By 310Cadet:
I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion for a spec for straight pull AR-15. I'd be mainly using it for general fun range shooting - typically 100/200/300 meters. Not a lot of competition shooting, maybe a bit of civilian service rifle and ETR. While I do some reloading I'd also want to shoot surplus RG ammo and not have any extraction issues.



How much do you want to spend, and what style are you after?

With what you have said, pretty much anything from 14.5" to 20" barrel will work...

Do you want to have a side charger, or just use the standard T handle at the back?

Personally for that requirement I'd have a 14.5" flat-top carbine with a side charger conversion. If you plan on doing much Civ SR (vs the plinking & ETR), then a longer barrel would probably be wise, so in that case I'd have an 18" flat-top with a fixed stock and a side charger conversion...
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 11:24:46 AM EST
I used to have a SGC 30 cal and when the side charging handle worked it was great - but the actual handle tended to work loose even with locktight and end up gouging the upper. Is this the bane of all side handles, or are some better made ?

For price I'd probably spend upto 1k.

So for reliable RG extract would I need to specify a 5.56 chamber and avoid tight match .223 chambers ?
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 11:52:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2007 11:53:01 AM EST by Bunnyassassin]
Things must have come a long way since the days of side cocking handles coming loose..... .....

I have to swing on mine to get the buggers loose.... Must have been a earlier "jabba" affair?
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 11:58:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2007 12:06:24 PM EST by streetfighter]
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 1:02:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2007 1:03:29 PM EST by Bus_pass_warrior]
With the benefit of hindsight I shouldn't have bought the SGC's 20" heavy fluted barrel version. It was fine off a bi pod at 500/600yds but real pain (literally) to use standing / unsupported positional in civ SR comps, especially if you're a wimp like me. 16" h-bar will do 300/400yds no problem, right cocking handle a must if you're right handed, tac-latch optional IMHO


Link Posted: 2/12/2007 1:46:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2007 1:52:30 PM EST by streetfighter]
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 10:50:46 PM EST
Well there is ONE advantage to Fat Bobs 1" bull barrels…

…if you ever need a really strong pry bar your in like Flynn!



ANdy
Link Posted: 2/19/2007 2:51:54 AM EST
I've been looking to purchase an AR15, keeping my eyes open for some second hand bargains…… not that there’s many about. Which has lead my quest to look at a new one

I’ve been looking to get a rifle that fine for target work, fig 11 and may be PR for upto a max of 500-600 yds and so far I’ve been specking up 20” barrelswith the go fatsder bits. Whats I'm stuggling to find out is how effective a 14.5 M4 clone rilfe would be, standard mil spec ? I’ve found a second hand one that’s available and would like to look at this as an option
Link Posted: 2/19/2007 7:16:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 8:15:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 8:43:03 PM EST by 310Cadet]
So for a general plinking range gun with some civilian service rifle I'm looking at something like,

20 inch hbar 1/9 barrel
Right hand side cocking
Flat top upper
A2 Buttstock
Houge type pistolgrip
Free float tube
RRA 2 stage trigger


Few questions,

What sort of muzzle break do people go for ? Whats 'recommended' ?

Is there any particular advantage to an upper with one of those huge risers built in ?

While I don't intend to use a bipod all the time, I'd like the option to use one. Assuming a free float tube of some kind, what the options on attaching a bipod ?

Assuming I want a right hand charging upper - in the UK is there really much in the way of choice for uppers ?

Say I went for something like a Leopold LRT scope - what sort of mounts would be recommended ? Would you need to be able to mount the scope a bit forward of the standard flat top upper rail to get proper eye relief ?

Does the choice of lower make a significant difference ?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 9:15:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By 310Cadet:
So for a general plinking range gun with some civilian service rifle I'm looking at something like,

20 inch hbar 1/9 barrel
Right hand side cocking
Flat top upper
A2 Buttstock
Houge type pistolgrip
Free float tube
RRA 2 stage trigger


Few questions,

What sort of muzzle break do people go for ? Whats 'recommended' ?
None, it's not really needed on a service rifle, just stick with the original A2 flash hider just for the looks. If you must have one then the AK style is good, Holland make a good one, there are several to choose from, but you can upset your neighbours on the range and you're strsight in to match rifle class
Is there any particular advantage to an upper with one of those huge risers built in ?
Not really, unless you have a very large scope to stick on top, or you have trouble getting your head down low. It makes fitting iron sights impossible.
While I don't intend to use a bipod all the time, I'd like the option to use one. Assuming a free float tube of some kind, what the options on attaching a bipod ?
You can add a bipod stud very easily, if you go for the military look with the handguards on the float tube you can get the #5 Harris stud for a few pounds (somewhere around £5) or if you have the aluminium float tube a QD stud can be screwed on easily, just drill a hole and either thread it or use a stud and nut.
Assuming I want a right hand charging upper - in the UK is there really much in the way of choice for uppers ?

Say I went for something like a Leopold LRT scope - what sort of mounts would be recommended ? Would you need to be able to mount the scope a bit forward of the standard flat top upper rail to get proper eye relief ?
There are many mounts that will work, just steer clear of the £10 budget mounts, a one piece would be better than a two piece, but I've managed with a two piece for years with no problem. The trouble with the Leupolds is the eye relief - it can be very difficult to get them far enough forward to get proper eye relief, mainly depending on your shooting position. A rail riser that steps forward over the handguards can solve this if it is a problem
Does the choice of lower make a significant difference ?
Again no, if it is a mil spec receiver, and many of the commercially made (machined) ones you can get here are more than good enough. Get a forged receiver if you are going for the standard profile, I have seen one of the cast ones snap when the pins had been too tight, but that could most likely have been prevented if the fit had been better


Personally I don't like the Hogue grip, they feel funny to me as the 'bumps' never seem to be in the right place, so I'd say save your pennies and get more ammo.

Hope this helps

Matt
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:44:28 AM EST
Would a 1/8 or 1/9 twist be the best compromise for shooting 62gr RG and the occasional reload with 69 SMK, and maybe the 77s ?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:21:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 5:17:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By 310Cadet:
Would a 1/8 or 1/9 twist be the best compromise for shooting 62gr RG and the occasional reload with 69 SMK, and maybe the 77s ?


No point going with a 1:9 when 1:8's are available.
You'll only handicap yourself in the future


As Mark said.

I regularly receive calls (two or three a week) from people saying they don't want a fast twist barrel as they'll only shoot 55gn, and surplus on the range, and the "the fast twist won't take the lighter bullets". Well if you're possibly gonna shoot the 40gn and lighter bullets at stupid speeds then you might have trouble with the bullets spinning themselves apart, but you cannot over-stabilise a bullet. The slower twist barrel will do less work on the bullets and thereby reduce wear, but you'll never notice the difference as the life will be extended by only a few rounds, and there are other factors that will have a bigger impact on the barrel's life.

You should go for the faster twist if you can, and certainly never go slower than a 1:9".

Matt
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 6:30:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scope-eye:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By 310Cadet:
Would a 1/8 or 1/9 twist be the best compromise for shooting 62gr RG and the occasional reload with 69 SMK, and maybe the 77s ?


No point going with a 1:9 when 1:8's are available.
You'll only handicap yourself in the future


As Mark said.

I regularly receive calls (two or three a week) from people saying they don't want a fast twist barrel as they'll only shoot 55gn, and surplus on the range, and the "the fast twist won't take the lighter bullets". Well if you're possibly gonna shoot the 40gn and lighter bullets at stupid speeds then you might have trouble with the bullets spinning themselves apart, but you cannot over-stabilise a bullet. The slower twist barrel will do less work on the bullets and thereby reduce wear, but you'll never notice the difference as the life will be extended by only a few rounds, and there are other factors that will have a bigger impact on the barrel's life.

You should go for the faster twist if you can, and certainly never go slower than a 1:9".

Matt


I read not too long ago and via a link somewhere on this forum that if a bullet spins too fast it will fly 'nose high' and suffer more induced drag thereby affecting velocity and hence accuracy. Is this not so?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 7:54:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 7:55:10 AM EST
Have you visited arfcom's ammo oracle?


everything you wanted to know and stuff you never thought of


Matt is right (of course) go for 1:8,

ammo oracle explains what twist rates / bullet weights / accuracy distances work best

Link Posted: 2/23/2007 7:58:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 8:13:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Bus_pass_warrior:
Have you visited arfcom's ammo oracle?


everything you wanted to know and stuff you never thought of


Matt is right (of course) go for 1:8,

ammo oracle explains what twist rates / bullet weights / accuracy distances work best



The ammo oracle is useless. Don't go there


Well that's helpful!

So what are you saying Mark. Is it actually best to just work up whatever bullets and loads suit your particular setup by trial?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 9:11:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/23/2007 9:14:19 AM EST by streetfighter]
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 11:11:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

I've never seen a bullet come apart either with lightweight bullets and fast twists.
Bullets are tough little buggers


I've shot 52gn Sierra MKs out of a 1:8" but never checked the speed - I only had a box lying around and 100yd range, no need to chrono. No problems at all.

I think the bullet coming apart is becoming a bit of an urban myth, the best kind - one that sounds like it could be true. Nobody I know has actually mentioned they've seen it happen, I've never seen it happen, and neither has Mark and between us we've seen plenty of 'close to the edge of the envelope rounds' as well as hundreds of thousands of normal reloads go down range, but many will still believe it and make pretty big decisions based on the 'fact'.

Matt
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