If you went to the August meeting for SCSSA, then you know that they "the board" is looking into the possibility of selling the land in exchange for a club complete elsewhere.  he
I personally feel that it does our sport, hobby, freedom good to have a shooting club in the middle of Hoover.  This is one of its most attractive features.  Location, location, location.  This is what keeps most some involved.  Isn't that part of the reason of the club?

Nothing may come of this.  And sooner or later the club will come under fire (pardon the pun).  But with fewer safe places to teach others to shoot, we all need to be prepared to fight for our shooting clubs! No matter where they are located.

If you went to the August meeting for SCSSA, then you know that they "the board" is looking into the possibility of selling the land in exchange for a club complete elsewhere.

"They" (the Board of Directors) aren't "looking to sell", they were approached by the developer (blindsided-more like it) that owns the property to the south of the range with an offer to exchange property and reloacte the range.

The BoD made a decision to investigate the potential, but as you stated, the membership will have the final say.  The BoD can only make a recommendation.  If you know any member(s) of the Board, make sure you voice your opinion regarding the range and it's potential sale, especially if you are a member.

You may contact the BoD via email if you go to the steel city web page.

Whitechevy's sentiment regarding the need to fight for our rights is true enough.  However, if SCSSA came under fire, how many would actually support the club in a fight?  Most of the time I have promoted the range here at ARF.com, it has been disregarded as a "fudd range" and scoffed for various reasons...

Steel City is clearly protected by the AL range protection act.  Anybody (and their lawyers) who have likely investigated that legal protection the NRA jammed through the legislature back in 2000 is going to be very discouraged about their prospects of ever getting rid of the club through civic action or the courts.

I am certain the developers not only want the land, but want the club gone, it is a situation where the best, if not the only way for that to happen is with the carrot since they don't genuinely have a stick at this point in time.  

I am wondering what sort of carrots they will come up with and how the membership will react.  I doubt that moving the place anywhere that requires a long drive is going to move the membership.  

On the other hand, if it did not move far and the money situation where made overwhelmingly attractive (e.g. enough cash to rebuild what the club has, and relieve the debts/mortgage completely) the BOD would be obliged to present that option to the membership.

Wrt the FUD club accusations, Steel City does not completely dis-allow NFA weapons, just the bottle neck rifle caliber full auto versions, and it is done rightly or wrongly, only out of concern for the potential of bullets leaving the range in a heavily populated area, not because they (the weapons) are considered politically incorrect.  They do allow members who have qualified themselves to shoot full auto pistol caliber NFA weapons to do so.

There are only three clubs in central AL I am aware of that allow unrestricted full auto, Heritage, where the range backs up into a mountain, Moss Branch, where the range backs up to the Anniston Army depot test firing range, and FOP.  Everybody has to assess their risk profile for full auto, and if Steel City is overly cautious on the subject, it is a call made on the basis of the board’s assessment of risk, not political correctness.

Steel City is the only club in this area currently having regular dedicated black rifle action shooting competitions, and they host all the other non-NRA sanctioned politically incorrect action shooting sports that exist, USPSA (including 3-gun), IDPA (including rifle and shotgun side matches), and a few that are even so called “outlaw matches” because unsanctioned by any action shooting organization.  They are the only club that has built a rifle range suitable for the use of .50 BMG at interesting distances. That hardly makes them Zumbo acolytes, so the FUD charge is pretty damn thin.

Bullets leaving the range is a smokescreen by the fudds to eliminate f/a from their range. I talked to the guys at FOP, where I used to be a member until I bought private property where I can blast away, and they knew of only one instance of f/a leaving the range and they caught it quickly and stopped it. Some gal let her son, about 12, blast away with a 9mm f/a while she was elsewhere shooting another gun. He would probably have done the same with a 9mm pistol.

F/A shooters are generally more cautious than non-f/a shooters because they know their options of where to shoot are limited due to the fudd control of most ranges and take extra caution to keep their bullets in the berms when shot. In uncountless 1000s of rounds shot by me and those at FOP I let shoot my f/a, none ever went over the berms, never.

With the costs of a f/a being what it is, and the cost of shooting f/a being what it is, I would seriously question whether a f/a shooter is less dangerous than a guy or gal that can walk into Chinamart and for a couple of hundred dollars buy a gun and begin to blast away. Oh well, don't have to worry about the predujices of fudds any more.

And it's not just f/a. Bet if the Slayer bought his hand cranked fun gun there and started blasting away, he would be stopped too because the continuous noise would hurt the concentration and sensitivy of the fudds.

And it's not just f/a. Bet if the Slayer bought his hand cranked fun gun there and started blasting away, he would be stopped too because the continuous noise would hurt the concentration and sensitivy of the fudds.

At our last Apleseed Shoot, we finished the day taking turns with one of the shooters 1919 SemiAuto's.  Do you know just how fast you can shoot a 1919 in semi-auto.  Two of the BoD were right there squeezing the trigger with us.

All that aside, it really is the reason I posted in the first place: If SCSSA decided to go the distance, would ARFcommers, even those that are not allowed to shoot their f/a(s), still help support the range for the sake of the 2A?

Quoted: Bullets leaving the range is a smokescreen by the fudds to eliminate f/a from their range.

The first misrepresentation you are making here is that full auto is banned at Steel City.  It is not, but it is limited to pistol caliber rounds.

Go to the big night shoot at Knob Creed some time and watch the tracers skip all the way over the top of the mountain (I have been 11 times and that is my father's home club).  And that is a big back stop.  Everybody who has been there and observed it closely knows it happens.  And then tell me it could not possibly be an issue.

I suspect all ranges have bullets that skip out, full auto or not.  But having seen it first hand many times at Knob Creek, I can understand why some range safety people have objections, even if I don't agree.  

The emphasis at steel city is insuring that all bullets impact within the berms where they are more certain be be absorbed.  If they hit in front of the target or go over the conditioned area of a berm there is always a good possiblity they will strike a rock, no matter how small and then skip on another trajectory.

Having been to knob creek and that thing up in Piedmont a couple of times, and having been an officer at Heritage for the past 8 years, I have no illusions that having the money to own NFA weapons necessarily means you have jack squat for skill or competence at arms, so that part of the argument is specious as well.  I have seen many individuals at all those venues who did not know how to shoot, who's safety training (especially muzzle discipline) is poor to marginal.  Combine that with letting their friends who have even less skill take a turn...yeah, right, nobody showing off letting their friends get their first full auto experience ever looses control of their impact area and lets rounds get in front of the target or just over it where they can hit rocks or skip.

Steel City is not a commercial supervised faciltiy.  There is no range officer on duty, so that is also part of the risk management calculus.

Your contention that this rule is just the handiwork of fudds is simple broad brush slander on your part.

Quoted: Quoted: Bullets leaving the range is a smokescreen by the fudds to eliminate f/a from their range. The first misrepresentation you are making here is that full auto is banned at Steel City.  It is not, but it is limited to pistol caliber rounds. Go to the big night shoot at Knob Creed some time and watch the tracers skip all the way over the top of the mountain (I have been 11 times and that is my father's home club).  And that is a big back stop.  Everybody who has been there and observed it closely knows it happens.  And then tell me it could not possibly be an issue. I suspect all ranges have bullets that skip out, full auto or not.  But having seen it first hand many times at Knob Creek, I can understand why some range safety people have objections, even if I don't agree.   The emphasis at steel city is insuring that all bullets impact within the berms where they are more certain be be absorbed.  If they hit in front of the target or go over the conditioned area of a berm there is always a good possiblity they will strike a rock, no matter how small and then skip on another trajectory. Having been to knob creek and that thing up in Piedmont a couple of times, and having been an officer at Heritage for the past 8 years, I have no illusions that having the money to own NFA weapons necessarily means you have jack squat for skill or competence at arms, so that part of the argument is specious as well.  I have seen many individuals at all those venues who did not know how to shoot, who's safety training (especially muzzle discipline) is poor to marginal.  Combine that with letting their friends who have even less skill take a turn...yeah, right, nobody showing off letting their friends get their first full auto experience ever looses control of their impact area and lets rounds get in front of the target or just over it where they can hit rocks or skip. Steel City is not a commercial supervised faciltiy.  There is no range officer on duty, so that is also part of the risk management calculus. Your contention that this rule is just the handiwork of fudds is simple broad brush slander on your part.

Fudds always look at someone questioning them as slander. What's new about that? Again, I will put a MG shooter up against the average person on safety all day long. But whatever, by the Grace of God, I no longer have to be concerned with fudds and their arcane rules. Also, since fudds don't support my right to shoot MGs, see NRA, I really don't care if SC shuts down or not. When they come out and protect my interests, I will look after their's too.

Also, when I was looking for a range to join, I called SC as well as FOP. FOP said yes, SC said no when asked. So now they have let .22 and 9mm be shot. Still a ways to go.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bullets leaving the range is a smokescreen by the fudds to eliminate f/a from their range. The first misrepresentation you are making here is that full auto is banned at Steel City.  It is not, but it is limited to pistol caliber rounds. Go to the big night shoot at Knob Creed some time and watch the tracers skip all the way over the top of the mountain (I have been 11 times and that is my father's home club).  And that is a big back stop.  Everybody who has been there and observed it closely knows it happens.  And then tell me it could not possibly be an issue. I suspect all ranges have bullets that skip out, full auto or not.  But having seen it first hand many times at Knob Creek, I can understand why some range safety people have objections, even if I don't agree.   The emphasis at steel city is insuring that all bullets impact within the berms where they are more certain be be absorbed.  If they hit in front of the target or go over the conditioned area of a berm there is always a good possiblity they will strike a rock, no matter how small and then skip on another trajectory. Having been to knob creek and that thing up in Piedmont a couple of times, and having been an officer at Heritage for the past 8 years, I have no illusions that having the money to own NFA weapons necessarily means you have jack squat for skill or competence at arms, so that part of the argument is specious as well.  I have seen many individuals at all those venues who did not know how to shoot, who's safety training (especially muzzle discipline) is poor to marginal.  Combine that with letting their friends who have even less skill take a turn...yeah, right, nobody showing off letting their friends get their first full auto experience ever looses control of their impact area and lets rounds get in front of the target or just over it where they can hit rocks or skip. Steel City is not a commercial supervised faciltiy.  There is no range officer on duty, so that is also part of the risk management calculus. Your contention that this rule is just the handiwork of fudds is simple broad brush slander on your part. Fudds always look at someone questioning them as slander. What's new about that? Again, I will put a MG shooter up against the average person on safety all day long. But whatever, by the Grace of God, I no longer have to be concerned with fudds and their arcane rules. Also, since fudds don't support my right to shoot MGs, see NRA, I really don't care if SC shuts down or not. When they come out and protect my interests, I will look after their's too. Also, when I was looking for a range to join, I called SC as well as FOP. FOP said yes, SC said no when asked. So now they have let .22 and 9mm be shot. Still a ways to go.

FOP isnt in the middle of Hoover either.

I dont like that they dont allow rifle class FA, but I do understand the reason.  It is more the fault of the society we live in than the range.

I hope they stay. I have been looking hard at joining just because of how convenient it is and the quality of the facility.

Quoted: I hope they stay. I have been looking hard at joining just because of how convenient it is and the quality of the facility.

I was gonna join to since I lived in Hoover and it was a lot closer than FOP. When the fudds said no to f/a, I went to FOP and met some great people like Slayer, etc. at the shoots.

The worst part about this is that here we are...all gun owners and all supporters of the 2A...but we seem divided...ready to throw SCSSA under the bus becaus eyou can't go f/a with rifle cartridges.

The antis are laughing their asses off...a great facility is facing a very well organized, well planned attempt to remove them and we're arguing about semi vs f/a.

Quoted: The worst part about this is that here we are...all gun owners and all supporters of the 2A...but we seem divided...ready to throw SCSSA under the bus becaus eyou can't go f/a with rifle cartridges. The antis are laughing their asses off...a great facility is facing a very well organized, well planned attempt to remove them and we're arguing about semi vs f/a.

F/A guys  support the fudds and do a lot of letter writing, etc. when a bad bill comes up. Don't see the fudds writing, calling, etc to help the F/A guys repeal 922(0), amnesty bill, etc. Have seen a lot of them say nobody needs a MG but you never see a MG guy say a fudd doesn't need his shotgun, Model 70, etc. I've seen many fudds say the 2nd protects hunting, not a true right to keep and bear arms as our founders meant.

How do you think the fudds would react if they had to pay $200 to buy any gun, pass an FBI fingerprint test, get local CLEO permission to buy any gun and then have to have ATF approval, wait 1-4 months to get their gun and have to carry a paper saying it was OK to have it in your possession but better not let anyone borrow it to shoot without your being there, etc? How would they react at SC if they were told they could shoot only pistol calibers?

Never seen a MG range disallow fudds from shooting their guns, place a limit on the ammo they can shoot, etc.  See and read about the reverse all the time. How many members of the SC do you think have gone to the board and other members and argue the limitation of full auto to pistol caliber ammo is wrong?  From my prespective, the fudds are the biggest danger to our 2nd rights except for the U.N. and liberals since they will not stand up for all.

I dropped my NRA membership which is a fudd organization when in reply to a question, I was told it was about hunting and target shooting and it was OK to limit MGs as the government has done. Thankfully there are other gun organizations that know the true meaning of the 2nd and support all of us.

Us MG guys would welcome the fudds with open arms

Quoted:Fudds always look at someone questioning them as slander. What's new about that?

Don't know mac, but I am confused as how somebody who disagrees with your assertions suddenly becomes a fudd.  

Maybe you can help me break the code here.  I am a long time NFA owner, long time gun rights activist who actually has had many face to face meetings with my state and national legislative representatives (ask Bill Armistead, our former state senator who convinced him to introduce CCW reciprocity in AL when it finally passed back in 2000), and I have actually been shooting competitively in organized events with black rifles and various pistols since 1987.  Now which of those makes me a fudd?

So far the intellectual content of your arguments consist of name calling as far as I can see.  And there is implied guilt by association for being a fudd, I need to get the code here on that.

So, you wanna clarify who is a fudd?  Hunters?  I haven't been hunting since the late 80's so I miss it on that count, people who belong to the NRA?  ok, guilty, life member, blow a good bit of cash at NRA-ILA every year...maybe that gets me in the fudd club.

Members of steel city?  Members of any organized gun club?  I think I need to understand who is really a fudd so I can do a better job of standing with my own kind I guess....

alaman,

Your point here is well taken and you are correct that there are some at SC (as well as probably your home range) that think NO ONE should have a MG.  Thery're wrong and I have pointed out many times that I am just as "dangerous" with my M1A as anyone is with a f/a.  

There is a mindset that is slowly changing and there are those that would never, ever allowf/a, even pistol.  With time and effort, I think changes can be made.

This is all assuming, getting back to the OP's topic, that SC is still in the center of Hoover.  

Anyone here have any Commercial Real Estate, Legal or other experience that would/could help under the current situation?

I would love to talk to them PM or email regarding SCs options.

Quoted: Anyone here have any Commercial Real Estate, Legal or other experience that would/could help under the current situation?.

As an officer at Heritage, I hired two different attorney's at two different times since 2001 when the range protection act went into effect, to advise us when we were dealing with neighbor complaints to the governing zoning authority.  Both told us that if somebody did not like it, they had three opportunities to do something about it.  The first was to go back to the legislature and get them to rescind or ammend the new state law in such a way that they could put us out of business, two, prove that we were not in compliance with the requirements of the law and mainly that we established operating hours that were outside the 9-9 requirements, third, file suit and find a judge who would declare the law unconsitutional, which they said was an unlikely outcome.

The purpose of this law, which was written by NRA-ILA and pushed through the AL legislature, is to specifically pre-empt ALL local attempts to shut down existing shooting ranges.  Clearly Steel City complies with the eligibility requirements for protection.  I don't know what there is to worry about unless the opponents want to push the mortgage lender to call the loan or something.

It could be that there are approaches to it legally that our attorney's did not consider.  I don't know what they would be.

I don't think a bunch of unhappy people in Hoover, or local developers are going to have enough sway in Montgomery to rescind the law, especially since it  is a second ammendment issue and we are talking the Alabama legislature.  So unless somebody who has bought off most of the legislature like Milton McGregor comes out against it I can't identify a legal remedy that forces the range closed.

If Steel City is really worried about it, it is time to seek the advice of a practicing attorney to cover that base.  I am sure there are some in the club.

billbott, here's a fudd

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=607375

Great, he is certainly a fudd, can you tell me about his relationship with the Steel City club?  I have been shooting competitively at Steel City since about 1987, never met anybody like him....

If MGs are limited to pistol caliber at an outdoor range, it is a fudd range. When asked if MGs are permissable 5 years ago and the answer is no, that is a fudd range.

Quoted: If MGs are limited to pistol caliber at an outdoor range, it is a fudd range. When asked if MGs are permissable 5 years ago and the answer is no, that is a fudd range.

Somehow I think there's too much 7.62x39, .223, and insipid 5.7x28 mm brass on the ground for Steel City to be a fudd range.

Quoted: If MGs are limited to pistol caliber at an outdoor range, it is a fudd range. When asked if MGs are permissable 5 years ago and the answer is no, that is a fudd range.

ah, at last some clarity, you have given us the definition of a fudd range, so all of the members of steel city are fudd's as well since we belong to the fudd range....

if so, I will have to change my avatar to a fudd logo, see I just joined this year, they have the best rifle range in this part of the world, they are hosting the best black rifle matches ever, and if being a member now makes me a fudd, I need to fess up and show my true colors

thank you so much for helping me on this journey of self discovery....it is good to know that some of us action pistol/3-gun playing NFA owners are fudd's as well, don't know how I would have stumbled through the rest of my life without your assistance in discovering my true identity...

Quoted: Quoted: If MGs are limited to pistol caliber at an outdoor range, it is a fudd range. When asked if MGs are permissable 5 years ago and the answer is no, that is a fudd range. ah, at last some clarity, you have given us the definition of a fudd range, so all of the members of steel city are fudd's as well since we belong to the fudd range.... if so, I will have to change my avatar to a fudd logo, see I just joined this year, they have the best rifle range in this part of the world, they are hosting the best black rifle matches ever, and if being a member now makes me a fudd, I need to fess up and show my true colors thank you so much for helping me on this journey of self discovery....it is good to know that some of us action pistol/3-gun playing NFA owners are fudd's as well, don't know how I would have stumbled through the rest of my life without your assistance in discovering my true identity...

Glad to help you realize your identity. Most need to go to a psy so I saved you a bunch of money.

Since I have a .223 and .308 pistol, reckon if I can shoot those caliber MGs since the .223 and .308 are also pistol calibers too in some circunstances