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Posted: 8/13/2018 4:20:34 PM EDT
I disagree. I think it should be 2nd degree murder. But, at least something is being done. You don't instigate a fight, get pushed, then get to kill someone.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter/story?id=57151343
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 8:46:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Brassaholic13:
I disagree. I think it should be 2nd degree murder. But, at least something is being done. You don't instigate a fight, get pushed, then get to kill someone.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter/story?id=57151343
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Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 9:13:48 PM EDT
He didn't start a 'fight' with the dead guy though...…..he didn't even have words with him. He approached the car that was illegally parked in the spot and was conversing with the woman in the car. You can see in the video he wasn't obnoxious about it--looks pretty calm. Then the dude came out of the store, did NOT pause to say WTF, and violently knocked him down. Even if they would have had words, the future dead guy is the one that got physical and threatening first.

By this interpretation of the stand your ground law, that means if I call someone an asshole and they assault me, then I can't defend myself because *I* started it???? Or do I have to prove they were, in fact, being an asshole to call them an asshole? Nope.....the big guy knocked him down and that's game on. Not saying this is a "good shoot" but it sure seems like the burden will be on the prosecution seeing this guy was PHYSICALLY ASSUALTED. No doubt I would have feared for my life in the same situation, if I got knocked to the ground and had someone towering over me. I don't see the big dude "retreating"......I see him pulling up his pants and moving to the side like he's going to flank the guy. If he hit his head or was in a daze from getting violently knocked to the ground, then he might not have had the depth perception.

I see this being a easy win, thus rioting in the street with mama blubbering what a "gentle giant" her baby was.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 9:40:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By delorean:
He didn't start a 'fight' with the dead guy though...…..he didn't even have words with him. He approached the car that was illegally parked in the spot and was conversing with the woman in the car. You can see in the video he wasn't obnoxious about it--looks pretty calm. Then the dude came out of the store, did NOT pause to say WTF, and violently knocked him down. Even if they would have had words, the future dead guy is the one that got physical and threatening first.

By this interpretation of the stand your ground law, that means if I call someone an asshole and they assault me, then I can't defend myself because *I* started it???? Or do I have to prove they were, in fact, being an asshole to call them an asshole? Nope.....the big guy knocked him down and that's game on. Not saying this is a "good shoot" but it sure seems like the burden will be on the prosecution seeing this guy was PHYSICALLY ASSUALTED. No doubt I would have feared for my life in the same situation, if I got knocked to the ground and had someone towering over me. I don't see the big dude "retreating"......I see him pulling up his pants and moving to the side like he's going to flank the guy. If he hit his head or was in a daze from getting violently knocked to the ground, then he might not have had the depth perception.

I see this being a easy win, thus rioting in the street with mama blubbering what a "gentle giant" her baby was.
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Exactly.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 10:43:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2018 10:48:53 PM EDT by chrisinmo]
I think it's going to be hard to argue that getting shoved was reasonable cause for dearly force. He has to convince a jury that he was in fear of great bodily harm or death and they are going to see that the dead guy was not advancing on a drawn gun. When I first saw the video my comment was this guy is going to face charges for this. Stand your ground removes a legal requirement to flee in the face of a threat i doesn't make your gun the answer to every physical altercation.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 10:58:58 PM EDT
He didn't get just "shoved", the guy knocked him on the ground.

And you don't draw the gun to show it, you draw it to shoot. The guy on the ground isn't a cop...….the decision was made when he pulled it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 11:07:44 PM EDT
Here is the video in question.

Link Posted: 8/13/2018 11:20:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2018 11:25:53 PM EDT by Shootindave]
From the video provided it looks like a bad shoot. I have also seen video..... then shown more video or different camera shots that showed something completely different.

If you think you would shoot someone that shoves you down, you have never used deadly force on someone before. You have never had to make that call and I hope you dont.
Link Posted: 8/14/2018 11:03:37 AM EDT
First, this is not a stand your ground case any more than Zimmerman's was. Second, the old disabled guy was violently assaulted. Violently assaulting a disabled person is a felony and deadly force is allowed in responding to a felony assault according to Florida law. The crippled guy was down and a much bigger younger guy had just knocked him on his ass and was still within a few feet and facing him. I do not think he needs to wait to get his head kicked off to respond.
The prosecutor likely knows going in, this case is a loser but as prosecutor's often do file for political reasons. That way they can blame the jury. Like was done to Zimmerman.
Link Posted: 8/14/2018 11:32:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ahorseman:
First, this is not a stand your ground case any more than Zimmerman's was. Second, the old disabled guy was violently assaulted. Violently assaulting a disabled person is a felony and deadly force is allowed in responding to a felony assault according to Florida law. The crippled guy was down and a much bigger younger guy had just knocked him on his ass and was still within a few feet and facing him. I do not think he needs to wait to get his head kicked off to respond.
The prosecutor likely knows going in, this case is a loser but as prosecutor's often do file for political reasons. That way they can blame the jury. Like was done to Zimmerman.
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Zimmerman was on his back getting his face pounded in when he shot Martin. I'm not seeing that in this video.
Link Posted: 8/14/2018 11:37:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ahorseman:
First, this is not a stand your ground case any more than Zimmerman's was. Second, the old disabled guy was violently assaulted. Violently assaulting a disabled person is a felony and deadly force is allowed in responding to a felony assault according to Florida law. The crippled guy was down and a much bigger younger guy had just knocked him on his ass and was still within a few feet and facing him. I do not think he needs to wait to get his head kicked off to respond.
The prosecutor likely knows going in, this case is a loser but as prosecutor's often do file for political reasons. That way they can blame the jury. Like was done to Zimmerman.
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Michael Drejka is 48 and I've seen nothing reported to indicate he us disabled. Hardly a crippled old man. He was clearly assaulted when he was thrown to the ground. He paused after pulling to he gun which gave the agressor some time to make some distance before he began to shoot. Other reports of him brandishing a gun and making threats are also coming out. I will be stunned if he is not found guilty I think the "reasonable man" standard is going to do him in. I don't think most people will view that video and find that he had reason to believe the attack was going to continue.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 11:23:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 12:10:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By eric10mm:
When assholes collide... 
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On a parking lot, or arfcom?
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 4:10:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Brassaholic13:

Zimmerman was on his back getting his face pounded in when he shot Martin. I'm not seeing that in this video.
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Yea but you don't have to let it go that far either.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 5:11:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Brassaholic13:
On a parking lot, or arfcom?
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Originally Posted By Brassaholic13:
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
When assholes collide... 
On a parking lot, or arfcom?
Little here, little there.

Hopefully no one here has been trespassed from a gas station over a history of starting stuff over a handicapped spot and brandishing a gun as a trump card.

But who knows.
Link Posted: 8/16/2018 2:40:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2018 2:41:14 PM EDT by ziegenbock]
Gas stations are serious shit now days. Watch were you park!

http://www.kmov.com/story/38195996/woman-storms-into-bp-station-threatens-clerk-with-large-machete

Good news is for some of you, she is single



Link Posted: 8/17/2018 3:05:19 PM EDT
I can go either way with this one. First he is not gulity, cause he was not physical with anyone. And I know if your on blood thinners that a good sound trauma to the body or head can kill you. And what I saw is the black guy was not done just shoving the old man down. Did you see the pulling up of the shorts and the little hop? He was coming back for more. So, I too would have feared for my life.

Now on the other hand. Once the gun was drawn, black guy takes a step or two back. So at that point it APPEARS that the threat is over. But as the old guy would try to stand up. Would the black guy charge in? Would the woman get in the car and attempt to run him over?

Looks like we will have to wait and see what comes of it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 4:41:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Max-Paul:
I can go either way with this one. First he is not gulity, cause he was not physical with anyone. And I know if your on blood thinners that a good sound trauma to the body or head can kill you. And what I saw is the black guy was not done just shoving the old man down. Did you see the pulling up of the shorts and the little hop? He was coming back for more. So, I too would have feared for my life.

Now on the other hand. Once the gun was drawn, black guy takes a step or two back. So at that point it APPEARS that the threat is over. But as the old guy would try to stand up. Would the black guy charge in? Would the woman get in the car and attempt to run him over?

Looks like we will have to wait and see what comes of it.
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I agree at that point the threat is over. The shooter was physically assaulted but the assailant had moved away. The shooter had made the decision to shoot when he drew his firearm but he should not have fired at that point in time as the assailant was no longer a threat. If the assailant had started to move toward him again, the threat returns and then he should fire. Most likely the shooter will be convicted as that was a bad shoot in my worthless opinion.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 6:02:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2018 6:04:36 PM EDT by delorean]
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Originally Posted By Brother_Kane:

I agree at that point the threat is over. The shooter was physically assaulted but the assailant had moved away. The shooter had made the decision to shoot when he drew his firearm but he should not have fired at that point in time as the assailant was no longer a threat. If the assailant had started to move toward him again, the threat returns and then he should fire. Most likely the shooter will be convicted as that was a bad shoot in my worthless opinion.
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Taking one or two steps back does not end the threat if you've been violently assaulted. If the victim smacked his head he might have had trouble aiming and that was the delay. At that angle, he might not have even seen the guy step back...….depth perception

I don't get why everyone is second guessing the shooter. None of you were there, you're just seeing a video from one angle. How about the audio? What was the soon to be dead guy saying to the victim? I see him hitch up his pants twice--once before he bum rushed the guy from 20 ft away, and then again after he knocked him down--who's to say he is not going to do it again. The big guy didn't engage in conversation, he just violently knocked the guy down. Victim was on the ground with no means of escape, but the law in FL doesn't even require that. Stand your Ground isn't even needed or an issue in this case. Comes down to simple self defense. And that's why the sheriff didn't charge the guy. The state is all scared about Travon riots and publicity, so that's what this is about.

BTW, dead guy / aggressor had charge(s) of aggravated battery on his record. Why is everybody falling for this BS again? No one here believed Michael Brown was the "gentle giant high school grad".
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 12:04:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By delorean:

Taking one or two steps back does not end the threat if you've been violently assaulted. If the victim smacked his head he might have had trouble aiming and that was the delay. At that angle, he might not have even seen the guy step back...….depth perception

I don't get why everyone is second guessing the shooter. None of you were there, you're just seeing a video from one angle. How about the audio? What was the soon to be dead guy saying to the victim? I see him hitch up his pants twice--once before he bum rushed the guy from 20 ft away, and then again after he knocked him down--who's to say he is not going to do it again. The big guy didn't engage in conversation, he just violently knocked the guy down. Victim was on the ground with no means of escape, but the law in FL doesn't even require that. Stand your Ground isn't even needed or an issue in this case. Comes down to simple self defense. And that's why the sheriff didn't charge the guy. The state is all scared about Travon riots and publicity, so that's what this is about.

BTW, dead guy / aggressor had charge(s) of aggravated battery on his record. Why is everybody falling for this BS again? No one here believed Michael Brown was the "gentle giant high school grad".
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It could go either way. Aggressor may have had a record, but so did the shooter. He was playing parking lot cop and had drawn his gun on people before. Why the hell just not call the police if you're that concerned over a handicap spot?

Time will tell. As the saying goes, I'd rather be judged by 9 than carried by 6.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 12:58:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2018 1:06:43 PM EDT by delorean]
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Originally Posted By Brassaholic13:

It could go either way. Aggressor may have had a record, but so did the shooter. He was playing parking lot cop and had drawn his gun on people before. Why the hell just not call the police if you're that concerned over a handicap spot?

Time will tell. As the saying goes, I'd rather be judged by 9 than carried by 6.
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Ouch.....hadn't heard that. Just heard that he frequently gave people trouble about parking in handicap spots. No law against that, nor being an a-hole, but it certainly doesn't help. Not like the cops are going to respond over it, especially in the time frame that someone is inside a convenient store. Either way, the shooter didn't start the fight--he put himself into an avoidable situation, be we do that every day in hindsight. He never had contact with the thug--he was having what looked to be a fairly calm conversation with the driver of the car, then got attacked by her baby daddy.

I got into it one time with a guy at Schnucks about 10 yrs ago…..he brought his cart into self checkout lanes and didn't know how to use it (kept scanning items before putting them in bags, then putting them back in the cart.....screws with the scales....that's why it's only for carry baskets) After about the 3rd or 4th he locked the machine up, he started going off the teenage checker overseeing the 4 units. I wasn't about to let him verbally abuse this kid, so I told him he if he was too F'n stupid to use the self checkout he should take his generic marshmallows and get in one the lines where they'd ring them up for him. Then he started going off on me as he packed his stuff back into his cart and changed lanes......told me he would kick my ass in the parking lot and to wait for him. Not being an idiot, I finished checking out and was long gone before he came out. I saw him a few months later at the same place--he didn't recognize me. Similar situation though. You gotta stand up for what's right and your fellow citizen sometimes in the moment. That kid would have lost his job if he tried to stand up for himself. Yeah, I put myself in a situation that could have escaladed, but I couldn't live with myself if I ignored the situation like everyone else did.

And had that situation escaladed, you know exactly how the media would have scooped the story up in every nightly newscast across the country......right before the commercial break with a smirk on the anchor's face, "when we come back, see how this fight over marshmallows resulted in a shooting in Missouri--a state known for lax gun laws--see how it has reignited the CCW and stand your ground debate." Same thing going on in FL with this one.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 9:16:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2018 9:19:19 PM EDT by Brassaholic13]
https://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-stand-ground-shooter-history-gun-threats-complaint/story?id=57167847

The complaint also says Drejka allegedly threatened to shoot three different individuals, pulling guns on two people in road-rage incidents dating back to 2012.

Three months before McGlockton's shooting, Drejka, who is white, threatened to shoot a black man for parking in a handicapped space at the same store where McGlockton was shot confronting Drejka, according to the complaint.

The man's boss told detectives Drejka later called him to complain about his worker, telling him "he was lucky that he didn't blow his employee's head off," the complaint alleges.

In another incident, an 18-year-old man told Pinellas County Sheriff's deputies in 2012 that Drejka flashed a black handgun at him during a road-rage incident. The teenager told deputies the altercation started when he stopped at a light that turned had yellow, and Drejka, who was behind him, allegedly honked and yelled at him, and pointed the handgun at him from his driver's-side window, according to the complaint.

The teenager did not wish to press charges against Drejka, the complaint says.

On Dec. 12, 2012, a woman told Largo, Florida, police that a man in a black Toyota truck, later identified at Drejka, pointed a gun at her and her passengers.

"When Largo Police talked to Michael Drejka, he stated that the female driver was driving too slowly through a school zone," according to the complaint.

Drejka denied pulling a gun on the woman, and police let him go when they did not find a firearm in his truck, the complaint says.
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ETA: This is the sort of tool that makes concealed carry holders look bad. He's been a ticking time bomb, wanting to shoot someone, and finally found his opportunity.
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