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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:59:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:21:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 7:22:33 AM EDT by stator]
You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:09:44 AM EDT
May I ask what justification DOJ gave you for making such a request?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:27:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mute:
May I ask what justification DOJ gave you for making such a request?



And how exactly did they phrase this request? It seems the DOJ will say one thing over the phone, but in writing, concede that it is legal. The only thing they mention is that it is POSSIBLE for a local DA to still prosecute.

But if it is done to the letter of the law, and you are still afraid of prosecution, you(or anyone else who feels that way) shouldn't be in the gun business. Maybe instead you could open a flower shop. A lot less risk of running afoul of BATF and DOJ there.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:42:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:48:12 AM EDT by SillyPuddy]

Originally Posted By roseco:
Sorry guys, DOJ asked Stag not to ship and we won't be shipping Stag or Double Star or any other AR15 lower receiver.



It's a shame when something is perfectly legal yet we still can't get support from some of our friends out of state. While Stag has chosen "not to ship" they have had to turn up production to keep up with a "sudden increase" in sales. These turds managed to save face with the DOJ yet sell all of their lowers. Hell, we ran them dry! When was the last time Stag was out of lowers? Rumor has it Stag is working on a fixed mag CA legal rifle (like Fab10 or new Bushmaster). I wonder if getting the new rifle approved had anything to do with their willingness to bend over for the DOJ? Sad.....truely sad.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:30:06 PM EDT
So, would you have taken the same action if the Brady center or VPC asked you to do this?

Why are you volunteering for voluntary gun control that's not mandated by law?

You were likely talking to a DOJ agent by the name of Dana McKinnon. He's been the bad boy doing scary phone calls to vendors. Fortunately, some are ignoring him since they know the law and the 2001 Harrott decision.

He appears to be quite unfamiliar with details of California's assault weapon laws, and/or insists to non-Californians that the law disallows things it actually doesn't. And he hasn't told you at all about the CA Supreme Court's 2001 Harrott v. Kings County decision, which says that AR and AK lowers are not illegal/banned unless first declared as such by DOJ and then added to California Code of Regulation sec 979.11. (Of course, these couldn't be built into working rifles w/detachable magazines after 2000, but they can get pistol grips put on them if they use 10rd fixed magazines so they don't violate SB23 characteristic features rules. These will likely be declared AWs in future and after registration can have evil features attached + detachable mag.)

DOJ is very embarrassed as they had a chance - for FIVE YEARS - to update this list (called the Kasler list, or the AR/AK Roster) and they did not do so.

Several thousand "off-list", non-Kasler lowers have already made it into CA and have been legally sold to individuals. DOJ agents have even stopped by gunstores doing this business and have acknoweledged it's legal. (If it weren't, many FFLs and gun owners woulda been arrested over the last month.) The DOJ agents are even gathering DL info from the bulk off-list lower vendors to send out registration cards.

We have enough trouble in CA without having our 'friends' help the gun controllers.

Just remember this: you're doing what Sarah Brady wants you to do.
And you are not required to do what the DOJ 'asks' you to do.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:37:03 PM EDT
Yet another dealer who won't get one cent from me in the future. Those who choose to not do business in CA out of ignorance only help the cause of the gun grabbers.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:38:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roseco:
Sorry guys, DOJ asked Stag not to ship and we won't be shipping Stag or Double Star or any other AR15 lower receiver.



That really BLOWS!

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:05:33 PM EDT
LOSER!!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:49:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 1:56:04 PM EDT by TKoProductions]
Lonestar Wholesale made a business (not a legal) decision to abandon those of us in California.

So, vote with your checkbooks.

If Lonestar Wholesale is unwilling to support us, than don't support them.

If anyone asks for feedback about Lonestar Wholesale, let it be known how they conduct business.

Refuse to and persuade others not to purchase any:

-stocks
-parts kits
-upper receivers
-conversion kits

from Lonestar Wholesale.

And spread the word that when Californians had an opportunity to legally acquire stripped non-listed lower receivers, that Lonestar Wholesale turned their back on us.

Only patronize those industry members who were willing to support our right to keep and bear arms. They're the true patriots.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:53:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 2:03:29 PM EDT by deez]
+1

It's their loss...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:04:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roseco:
Sorry guys, DOJ asked Stag not to ship and we won't be shipping Stag or Double Star or any other AR15 lower receiver.



Wow, um, er, well then, you suck...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:07:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:57:15 PM EDT by WizardOfAhs]

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:
Lonestar Wholesale made a business (not a legal) decision to abandon those of us in California.

So, vote with your checkbooks.

If Lonestar Wholesale is unwilling to support us, than don't support them.

If anyone asks for feedback about Lonestar Wholesale, let it be known how they conduct business.

Refuse to and persuade others not to purchase any:

-stocks
-parts kits
-upper receivers
-conversion kits

from Lonestar Wholesale.

And spread the word that when Californians had an opportunity to legally acquire stripped non-listed lower receivers, that Lonestar Wholesale turned their back on us.

Only patronize those industry members who were willing to support our right to keep and bear arms. They're the true patriots.



Hell, I think they need NEGATIVE FEEDBACK in the EE from everyone in California. Run 'em out of here..

UPDATED: Recommendation retracted. I still however won't buy anything from this guy's business though.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:21:50 PM EDT
hey i recently got my dbl. star and i know someone who is shipping into cali, and a ffl willing to do transfer in nor cal.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:26:14 PM EDT
Glad I didn't use you for my receiver orders.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:45:14 PM EDT
The time to fight the law and the law makers was before the law was passed, now is the time to comply with the law.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:04:23 PM EDT
I guess the CA doj let him have it. Well thats ok Im on my 4th lower and will be looking for a few uppers (not stag).
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:15:34 PM EDT
We're complying with the law.

We're only buying receivers that have not been banned!

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:19:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 5:20:31 PM EDT by WizardOfAhs]

Originally Posted By warlord:
The time to fight the law and the law makers was before the law was passed, now is the time to comply with the law.



WTF?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:46:53 PM EDT
Its unfortunate that they wont sell here. but they are not alone in that regard and i give them credit for at least letting everyone know.

Are any manufacturersshipping directly to Cali FFLs or is it still up to the buyer or Cali FFL holder to find a dealer or distrubutor will lowers in stock that he's willing to ship to Cali?

Is there a reason Colt, Armalite, Eagle, Bushmaster, Stag, LMT, Fulton, Oly cant/wont ship stripped lowers with a non bamnned model number of the sidfe to cali?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:02:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:09:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Its unfortunate that they wont sell here. but they are not alone in that regard and i give them credit for at least letting everyone know.

Are any manufacturersshipping directly to Cali FFLs or is it still up to the buyer or Cali FFL holder to find a dealer or distrubutor will lowers in stock that he's willing to ship to Cali?

Is there a reason Colt, Armalite, Eagle, Bushmaster, Stag, LMT, Fulton, Oly cant/wont ship stripped lowers with a non bamnned model number of the sidfe to cali?



I have 3 out of your list, its too bad the most of them wont back us. Where's Ronnie Barret when you need him.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:12:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mute:
May I ask what justification DOJ gave you for making such a request?



I would like to know as well.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:45:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuanticoArms:
Bill,
This is Dave Hensley..Used to be a co-owner of Cold War Relics...Remember that???
Dave Hensley



I certainly DO remember you, CWR and its great service and Hector - and my excited trip at end of 1998 to Pacific Grove to pick up my AR10A2....

I love that gun. It's bone stock and is a tack driver with match ammo thru it. I have a Valdada 6X 35mm illum. scope on it. May convert upper to flattop, will see...

How's life out where you are? You still in .MIL ?

Regards,
Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:50:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Its unfortunate that they wont sell here. but they are not alone in that regard and i give them credit for at least letting everyone know.

Are any manufacturersshipping directly to Cali FFLs or is it still up to the buyer or Cali FFL holder to find a dealer or distrubutor will lowers in stock that he's willing to ship to Cali?

Is there a reason Colt, Armalite, Eagle, Bushmaster, Stag, LMT, Fulton, Oly cant/wont ship stripped lowers with a non bamnned model number of the sidfe to cali?



I believe a couple of the smaller ones are shipping directly.

Many mfgrs - Colt, Armalite, Eagle, Bushmaster etc - haven't changed model #'s and likely won't. This is too small a thing for them. Other vendors may ship but are keeping mum - and/or are just referring sales to a friendly FFL. Moot issue in some ways (except for timing) since CA folks will readily pay extra $$ to get lowers. Some CA folks are still (idioticially, IMHO) holding out for specific brand/models when they really should be getting any lower they can at this point.

Stag and Fulton got scared off by scary talk from a DOJ phone clerk who was Kaslering them to death.

As it is, intermediaries and small mfgrs seem to be jumping on. If this thing lasts another 2 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if we got 4500 lowers into CA. The Calif action apparently drained most all of Stag's 960 lower inventory in December...


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:34:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 7:38:31 PM EDT by spreadfirearms]
please, before anyone else takes a dump on Robbie (roseco) at Lonestar Wholesale, please let me chime in.

Robbie is a fellow dealer in Texas and he is a personal friend of mine. i'm sure he has bitten his tongue here and hasn't commented about all the negative comments you guys have given him.

he, like every other dealer actively selling lowers on the net in the U.S., has probably been inundated with AR-15 buyers from CA.

it is Robbie's prerogative to ship, or not ship, to CA. what i can say, is that Robbie is a stand-up guy. he has alot of satisfied customers. Robbie is making a business decision. while it may not illegal, he has chosen not to participate.

it's a free country......he doesn't have to sell to anyone if he doesn't want to.

i've heard of all kinds of buyers from CA making ludicrous requests: finding them a CA transfer dealer, brokering lowers from other FFL's who won't ship to CA, sending them multiple lowers so they can hand-pick the ones they want and send back the ones they don't want, etc. also alot of hoarding. there are some guys patiently waiting for 1 lower and others in line for 5 or 6. im sure they are reselling them for a profit. there are guys attempting to bribe dealers to bump them to the top of the list if they pay more money. i can see how perhaps Robbie doesn't want to deal with all the sharks who are busy trying to screw their fellow CA AR-15 brothers. or maybe he has a different reason. i don't know really.

all i'm saying is that Robbie is a good guy and i'll defend him. you guys may or may not personally know him. i do. i will say he is a good guy and an honest dealer.

at least he isn't price gouging CA buyers at $250 for a Stag lower......

DISCLAIMER: I am not a registered dealer with ARFCOM and as a result do not take this as an advertisement. I have no AR-15 stripped lowers in stock that are available for people to buy. Do not contact me off this board to attempt to purchase anything. Please use the registered dealers in the Equipment Exchange to purchase items. Thank you.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:45:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By warlord:
The time to fight the law and the law makers was before the law was passed, now is the time to comply with the law.



WTF?


Well, I did the 2nd Amend rights for a number of years, and fought for the repeal of SB15/SB23. I find that many Calif gunners are most interested in shooting than they are of fighting a bad laws. Personally, I don't blame the mfg'rs for not taking any chances by not selling equipment to Calif due to badgering from the CalDoJ and taking a chance that CalDoJ will take them to court. It is very expensive to fight CalDoJ for the small number of whatevers sold. Has anyone tried to hire a lawyer lately? I doubt if the NRA or CRPA would help out because they have bigger fish to fry elsewhere.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:59:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:02:48 PM EDT by tatsuosan1964]

Originally Posted By bwiese:

I love that gun. It's bone stock and is a tack driver with match ammo thru it. I have a Valdada 6X 35mm illum. scope on it. May convert upper to flattop, will see...



As long as we're getting all warm and fuzzy , that Valdada scope you have may be the one that I sold to you a while back. I originally bought it for my M1A but the eye relief didn't do it for me so I sold it on the EE to you. I thought that you might use it on one of your M1A.s I hope that you are enjoying it. How could you not on THAT rifle? I have the same scope that is Bullet drop compensated for 5.56 on one of my Bushmasters.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:06:36 PM EDT
Too bad Lonestar decided not to sell completely legal lowers to Californians. What other state has 4,500+ consumers hungry for uppers, stock sets, 10 round mags, and other accessories? Even if each of those consumers spent only $100 on one upper that's potentially nearly $450,000 in lost business.

But the California market isn't for everyone. Afterall, I guess the Big Bad DOJ is going to huff and puff till he blows your FFL down !
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:29:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 10:00:59 PM EDT by DrFrige]

Originally Posted By spreadfirearms:
please, before anyone else takes a dump on Robbie (roseco) at Lonestar Wholesale, please let me chime in.

Robbie is a fellow dealer in Texas and he is a personal friend of mine. i'm sure he has bitten his tongue here and hasn't commented about all the negative comments you guys have given him.

he, like every other dealer actively selling lowers on the net in the U.S., has probably been inundated with AR-15 buyers from CA.

it is Robbie's prerogative to ship, or not ship, to CA. what i can say, is that Robbie is a stand-up guy. he has alot of satisfied customers. Robbie is making a business decision. while it may not illegal, he has chosen not to participate.

it's a free country......he doesn't have to sell to anyone if he doesn't want to.

i've heard of all kinds of buyers from CA making ludicrous requests: finding them a CA transfer dealer, brokering lowers from other FFL's who won't ship to CA, sending them multiple lowers so they can hand-pick the ones they want and send back the ones they don't want, etc. also alot of hoarding. there are some guys patiently waiting for 1 lower and others in line for 5 or 6. im sure they are reselling them for a profit. there are guys attempting to bribe dealers to bump them to the top of the list if they pay more money. i can see how perhaps Robbie doesn't want to deal with all the sharks who are busy trying to screw their fellow CA AR-15 brothers. or maybe he has a different reason. i don't know really.

all i'm saying is that Robbie is a good guy and i'll defend him. you guys may or may not personally know him. i do. i will say he is a good guy and an honest dealer.

at least he isn't price gouging CA buyers at $250 for a Stag lower......

DISCLAIMER: I am not a registered dealer with ARFCOM and as a result do not take this as an advertisement. I have no AR-15 stripped lowers in stock that are available for people to buy. Do not contact me off this board to attempt to purchase anything. Please use the registered dealers in the Equipment Exchange to purchase items. Thank you.


Nice to see someone stand up for someone they know. I do have to give him kudos for giving CA lower purchasers a "heads up"

As a business owner myself I totally understand the "We have the right to refuse service to anyone"

I am not saying what these CA guys are doing is right or wrong but you do have to see their point in one aspect. Californians have been the on the receiving end of jokes and ridicule for a long time because we were denied access to certain firearms because of their "looks"

All they can do is either keep quiet or be content with Fab10's.

Other shooters in other states always tell Californians to "STAND UP!" or "VOTE THESE ASSHOLES OUT" ... we finally get a chance to stand up and these guys are feeling like they are having backs turned on them.

Your friend might be the best of the best and he probably is. The DOJ is using scare tactics and its working. Californians are getting frustrated so they are venting.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:51:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:54:01 PM EDT by sv_sniper]
Yeah, spreadfirearms is correct. DO NOT bad mouth to Robbie, though I was refused by him. We should respect his decesion.
----------------------------------------------------------
Here is my story lately:

On EE board.....

Company ABC: Blemished Brand XYZ lower receivers for sale, $99 shipped.

I asked: Will you sell these lowers to Kali?

Company ABC: We do not ship to Kali, but we have a cool dealer XXX. He is at XXX@tuv.def.

I sent email to dealer XXX and got good prices. Sent payment today (and my DROS is still valid until Jan 20).
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Fellow Californians, please be polite to ask. Once get turned down, don't get mad. Just try another supplier.

Good luck on receiver hunting!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:55:39 PM EDT by WizardOfAhs]
Looks like some stand up people here are defending him, they would obviously not defend him with such gusto if this cat were not decent. And yes, I conceed that he did give us a heads up. I am still dubious though, but I also don't know Roscoe personally. I was and am still weirded out about his bending to CA DOJ though as these lowers are not as of yet banned. I guess I should retract my comment that he should hav negative feedback on the EE, so, it's so retracted. However, because he DID decide to bend to the CA DOJ, I know I won't be buying anything from his company in the future for his sheer lack of gastrointestinal fortitude in this matter, otherwise, I can accept that in OTHER matters, Roscoe is a standup guy as others have said.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 10:05:55 PM EDT by WizardOfAhs]

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By warlord:
The time to fight the law and the law makers was before the law was passed, now is the time to comply with the law.



WTF?


Well, I did the 2nd Amend rights for a number of years, and fought for the repeal of SB15/SB23. I find that many Calif gunners are most interested in shooting than they are of fighting a bad laws. Personally, I don't blame the mfg'rs for not taking any chances by not selling equipment to Calif due to badgering from the CalDoJ and taking a chance that CalDoJ will take them to court. It is very expensive to fight CalDoJ for the small number of whatevers sold. Has anyone tried to hire a lawyer lately? I doubt if the NRA or CRPA would help out because they have bigger fish to fry elsewhere.



That's GREAT that YOU stood up for the second amendment for a number of years and fought for repeal of SB15 and SB23. It's a bummer you're dismayed about the actions and lack of action by other Californians to the point where you've "given in" enought to make the comments that you have. Regardless of your reasons when you said: "Originally Posted By warlord:
The time to fight the law and the law makers was before the law was passed, now is the time to comply with the law."


What law do you want us to comply with? What about UNLISTED lower recievers don't you understand? What LAW is not being complied with? What exactly would you like us to roll over for?

Ok, you're tired of fighting or simply taking a break in between fights for your gun rights. But when I said "WTF", your above statements don't validate your first post. "COMPLY"? Comply with what law? If you mean comply when Kassler list is updated, certainly! I shall register these lowers I have reciently bought, but what does THAT have to do with FFL's & Suppliers chickening out to CA DOJ when there is nothing unlawful about these lowers as of yet?(Providing that we don't turn them into SB23 "assault weapons" prior to AW registration)

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:36:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuanticoArms:
Bill,

This is Dave Hensley...Used to be a co-owner of Cold War Relics...Remember that???

Dave Hensley



Hey, I bought a few weapons from you guys. How ya' doing? I wondered what happened to you.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:38:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Nice to see someone stand up for someone they know. I do have to give him kudos for giving CA lower purchasers a "heads up"

As a business owner myself I totally understand the "We have the right to refuse service to anyone"

I am not saying what these CA guys are doing is right or wrong but you do have to see their point in one aspect. Californians have been the on the receiving end of jokes and ridicule for a long time because we were denied access to certain firearms because of their "looks"

All they can do is either keep quiet or be content with Fab10's.

Other shooters in other states always tell Californians to "STAND UP!" or "VOTE THESE ASSHOLES OUT" ... we finally get a chance to stand up and these guys are feeling like they are having backs turned on them.

Your friend might be the best of the best and he probably is. The DOJ is using scare tactics and its working. Californians are getting frustrated so they are venting.



I agree with the Frige. I think it is unfair that the DOJ is doing what they are. But I will respect the wishes of someone who at least has the decency to let us Kalifornistans know what he plans to do or not do. BTW, I've been a registered voter and NRA/CRPA member for almost twenty years and have ALWAYS voted pro-gun. I just don't like the door shut in my face.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:39:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:19:02 AM EDT by Mesa_Tactical]

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:
I know I won't be buying anything from his company in the future for his sheer lack of gastrointestinal fortitude in this matter



Speaking of gastrointestinal fortitude, I wonder how many of the people complaining on this forum are willing to bet their jobs, businesses and retirement on the whims of the US Department of Justice and the taxpayer-paid lawyers of the California DoJ?

All FFLs operate according to strict requirements laid down by Congress and the ATF. One of these is to obey all Federal and State firearms laws. In fact, ATF sends a nice fat book out to all FFLs that includes all Federal firearms laws as well as firearms laws of each of the fifty states, just to make sure the FFLs can stay on top of local laws.

Frankly, it seems reasonable to me that an FFL should turn to that book rather than hopeful opinions expressed on a message board to determine what is legal or not in a remote state. Making the wrong decision could easily cost an FFL his license, to say nothing of criminal penalties, and even civil suits threatened by the California DoJ. And for most dealers to lose their licenses means loss of job, loss of income, loss of family security and, usually, loss of savings and retirement.

How many of you have ever been asked to gamble all that on a decision like this? How many of you took the gamble rather than the safe option?

My personal appraisal is that it's legal to import certain lowers. I have DROSed two of them myself. But if I am wrong, I have little to lose. That goes for everyone else in this thread who is bellyaching about the decisions of local and out of state FFLs. None of us has had cause to rely on the gastrointestinal fortitude that you so blithely demand of others.


- Mitch
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:49:38 AM EDT
I think DrFrige is most correct in his assessment. We, in California, have been cyclothymic on this issue... one moment feeling incredulous, other moments loathing in self doubt...

The behavior one is seeing is merely representative of the pent up desire to join the fraternity of ARFcom brothers and sisters for the past 6 years.

The decision for a FFL to sell or not sell is NOT for us to vilify. Let economics of scale take place, if they don't want our business, fine, move to plan B.

However, it is extremely frustrating that a few phone calls (or visits) from ca.gov can spook any of us. Look at the thread on calguns.net concerning CDL's being copied from a few FFLs...


Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:11:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JWC6:
However, it is extremely frustrating that a few phone calls (or visits) from ca.gov can spook any of us. Look at the thread on calguns.net concerning CDL's being copied from a few FFLs...



Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:19:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 10:21:10 AM EDT by brushdog]
Wouldn't the Double Star and Stag lowers easier to ship to Cali if they are set up with fixed mags like the Vulcan lower?

Just wondering.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:32:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 10:41:22 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By Housefull:
.
.
BTW, I've been a registered voter and NRA/CRPA member for almost twenty years and have ALWAYS voted pro-gun. I just don't like the door shut in my face.



Just joining the NRA & CRPA and voting is not enough.

I've been a life- member of CRPA for more than 10 years and I have yet to physically meet any of the officers of CRPA at any rallies outside of their annual January dinner. As a matter of fact, I don't even know how the officers are elected. I just get their mostly useless monthly newsletter.

As gunners we must do more than just join the NRA & CRPA, we must campaign for the pro-gun candidates and against anti-gun candidates. Many people complaining of various Calif anti-gun laws have never stuffed an envelop for a pro-gun candidate or against anti-gun candidate. Or how about contributing money to the pro-gun candidate?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The people at Cal DoJ is just trying to appease their masters in the anti-gun Democratically controlled legislature. Where do you think Cal DoJ's pay checks are coming from? If the drones at Cal DoJ have to break some knees and crack some skulls, then so be it. Many violations of various firearms laws are felonies, and you face the possiblilties that you not only loose your FFL, but you can't be bonded, can't get a job as a teacher, can't be licensed as doctor, dentist, nurse, engineer. The possibilites are endless and all to make a few lousy bucks.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:30:19 PM EDT
I still like to know what the hell the DOJ is saying that's getting all these guys so spooked.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:37:43 PM EDT
I believe the verbal communication with some suppliers was that CA has 58 district attorneys that MAY pursue legal action... bwiese, please chime in here....

I am not an attorney, and I bet most FFL's are not.... So, with profit margins being what they are, why RISK the ire of the CA DOJ even though they may not have any legal grounds to stand upon?

Sigh, FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD all over the place.....

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:55:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By Housefull:
.
.
BTW, I've been a registered voter and NRA/CRPA member for almost twenty years and have ALWAYS voted pro-gun. I just don't like the door shut in my face.



Just joining the NRA & CRPA and voting is not enough.
Agreed

I've been a life- member of CRPA for more than 10 years and I have yet to physically meet any of the officers of CRPA at any rallies outside of their annual January dinner. As a matter of fact, I don't even know how the officers are elected. I just get their mostly useless monthly newsletter.
Funny, I have thought the same thing

As gunners we must do more than just join the NRA & CRPA, we must campaign for the pro-gun candidates and against anti-gun candidates. Many people complaining of various Calif anti-gun laws have never stuffed an envelop for a pro-gun candidate or against anti-gun candidate. Or how about contributing money to the pro-gun candidate?

Done ALL of that
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The people at Cal DoJ is just trying to appease their masters in the anti-gun Democratically controlled legislature. Where do you think Cal DoJ's pay checks are coming from? If the drones at Cal DoJ have to break some knees and crack some skulls, then so be it. Many violations of various firearms laws are felonies, and you face the possiblilties that you not only loose your FFL, but you can't be bonded, can't get a job as a teacher, can't be licensed as doctor, dentist, nurse, engineer. The possibilites are endless and all to make a few lousy bucks.



Agreed. My FFL has prepaid orders for +/- 40 recievers and because he was a couple of weeks late getting started (out of town) he is stuck with a supplier that is gouging and is not making any money on the deals. His hope is that the customers will repeat because of what he is doing.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:10:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mute:
I still like to know what the hell the DOJ is saying that's getting all these guys so spooked.



Apparently Dana is telling out of state vendors it's illegal, that if it looks like an AR it is an AR.

Which is pure BS - Harrott has changed Kasler. And it's a CA Supreme Ct decision, written very clearly.


Bill W
San Jose CA


Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:48:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:

Originally Posted By Mute:
I still like to know what the hell the DOJ is saying that's getting all these guys so spooked.



Apparently Dana is telling out of state vendors it's illegal, that if it looks like an AR it is an AR.

Which is pure BS - Harrott has changed Kasler. And it's a CA Supreme Ct decision, written very clearly.


Bill W
San Jose CA





In other words, he's lying and interfering with interstate commerce.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:43:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mute:

Originally Posted By bwiese:

Originally Posted By Mute:
I still like to know what the hell the DOJ is saying that's getting all these guys so spooked.



Apparently Dana is telling out of state vendors it's illegal, that if it looks like an AR it is an AR.

Which is pure BS - Harrott has changed Kasler. And it's a CA Supreme Ct decision, written very clearly.


Bill W
San Jose CA




In other words, he's lying and interfering with interstate commerce.

Ooooh Im grabbing the popcorn and hanging for this one!!!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:56:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 10:39:45 AM EDT by vojta]
I am a 13 year California peace officer and a registered assault weapon owner. I am infuriated that a California DOJ agent is able to dissuade lawful commerce across state lines with a threat and by providing unsolicited legal advice. I urge everyone who has been so threatened to IMMEDIATELY file a complaint with the CA DOJ about said agent's conduct. I cannot file a complaint because I do not know who is doing this and I do not have sufficient info to make the complaint without endangering my job, i.e. it's all hearsay. However, someone who has heard these statements is certainly justified in complaining. A number of IA complaints in an officer's jacket are never taken lightly, espcially if they are sustained.

Please, use the system and file a complaint if you have been given incorrect legal advice or dissuaded from lawful interstate commerce by a California DOJ agent.

edited for spelling
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:08:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vojta:
I am a 13 year California peace officer and a registered assault weapon owner. I am infuriated that a California DOJ agent is able to dissuade lawful commerce across state lines with a threat and by providing unsolicited lega advice. I urge everyone who has been so threatened to IMMEDIATELY file a complaint with the CA DOJ about said agent's conduct. I cannot file a complaint because I fo not know who is doing this and I do not have sufficient info to make the complaint without endangering my job, i.e. it's all hearsay. However, someone who has heard these statements is certainly justified in complaining. A number of IA complaints in an officer's jacket are never taken lightly, espcially if they are sustained.

Please, use the system and file a complaint if you have been given incorect legal advice or dissuaded from lawful interstate commerce by a California DOJ agent.




This should be posted and relayed over on calguns.

While I can't personally file a report, I would like to see some action taken on this.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:20:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:27:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vojta:
I am a 13 year California peace officer and a registered assault weapon owner. I am infuriated that a California DOJ agent is able to dissuade lawful commerce across state lines with a threat and by providing unsolicited lega advice. I urge everyone who has been so threatened to IMMEDIATELY file a complaint with the CA DOJ about said agent's conduct. I cannot file a complaint because I fo not know who is doing this and I do not have sufficient info to make the complaint without endangering my job, i.e. it's all hearsay. However, someone who has heard these statements is certainly justified in complaining. A number of IA complaints in an officer's jacket are never taken lightly, espcially if they are sustained.

Please, use the system and file a complaint if you have been given incorect legal advice or dissuaded from lawful interstate commerce by a California DOJ agent.



Thanks. But the problem is that all these are 2nd-hand reports. There are enough of them and they are consistent enough to be believable but no one has a tape recording. Also it just seems to be out of state lower mfgrs and FFLs that are getting this treatment - not the locals. Local FFLs selling lowers are not being harrassed much other than agents taking down DROS DL info so they can mail out reg papers - so DOJ doesn't have to make a big public announcement about new reg period.

As I recall, one Calguns member who got his JP CTR02 (and who really got this off-list fixed-mag AR lower gig in California going) had Dana McK threaten his FFL that when the fixed-mag rifle arrived, they were gonna declare it as an assault weapon and arrest them. Legally there's no basis for this threat and it's just verbal extortion. A Calguns thread by user Artherd (Ben) will relate these details further.

DOJ agents are not known to know details of CA AW law. SOme of these guys are the ones that busted a vendor at a Pomona gunshow for having HK trigger groups and other legal parts & accessories - entirely legal nonserialized components, nothing involving full auto, etc. AG had to backpedal and charges were dropped.


Bill Wiese
San Jose



Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:06:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mesa_Tactical:

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:
I know I won't be buying anything from his company in the future for his sheer lack of gastrointestinal fortitude in this matter



Speaking of gastrointestinal fortitude, I wonder how many of the people complaining on this forum are willing to bet their jobs, businesses and retirement on the whims of the US Department of Justice and the taxpayer-paid lawyers of the California DoJ?

All FFLs operate according to strict requirements laid down by Congress and the ATF. One of these is to obey all Federal and State firearms laws. In fact, ATF sends a nice fat book out to all FFLs that includes all Federal firearms laws as well as firearms laws of each of the fifty states, just to make sure the FFLs can stay on top of local laws.

Frankly, it seems reasonable to me that an FFL should turn to that book rather than hopeful opinions expressed on a message board to determine what is legal or not in a remote state. Making the wrong decision could easily cost an FFL his license, to say nothing of criminal penalties, and even civil suits threatened by the California DoJ. And for most dealers to lose their licenses means loss of job, loss of income, loss of family security and, usually, loss of savings and retirement.

How many of you have ever been asked to gamble all that on a decision like this? How many of you took the gamble rather than the safe option?

My personal appraisal is that it's legal to import certain lowers. I have DROSed two of them myself. But if I am wrong, I have little to lose. That goes for everyone else in this thread who is bellyaching about the decisions of local and out of state FFLs. None of us has had cause to rely on the gastrointestinal fortitude that you so blithely demand of others.


- Mitch



Your argument lacks any foundation. We're NOT talking about an FFL violating the law, these lowers are not as of yet added to the kassler list. so, in essence, you're going nowhere with this.
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