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Posted: 12/26/2006 8:58:01 PM EST
So for the first time ever i got pulled over tonight in Saint Louis. It was by a missouri state highway patrolman. I was given the ticket with the court date, but was not told to sign it. I was under the impression for the ticket to be legal i needed to sign it. Is that true? And also what do you guys know about the ticket fixing places like traffic law, and such? Any information you guys have will help, thanks.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 4:40:38 AM EST
Some states require signing to acknowledge the court date most including Missouri do not. So your ticket is legal. Most cities around Kansas City will double your fine and change a speeding ticket to non-moving violation like faulty equipment if you have not received a speeding ticket in that city within the last year. You are required to hire a attorney which cost around $150.00 for this service. I don't know about the Saint Louis area or the Missouri Highway Patrol. Other lead feet please chime in.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 5:23:27 AM EST
Brother Kane is quite correct when he states that your ticket is legal in MO. He's a little high on the price quoted for the attorney however. Take it from my ample past experience, you can get an attorney for $70.00 if you shop around. This past summer, I got a ticket doing 86 in a 60 by the state patrol (I've only been ticketed by the County once in the 10 years that I've lived here. Likewise, I've only received one ticket from the City police and that was on I-55 as well) and getting it reduced cost me $90.00 for the attorney and $252.00 to get it plead down to something silly.

The best thing to do is to not speed in the first place I suppose. If you live in St. Louis, I'd recommend Rosenthal and Ringling. They have a hole in the wall place down off of Lemay Ferry Road just as you cross the bridge into Arnold. It's on the left side of the road if you're just coming off of the bridge (travelling South). They've handled like four or five tickets for me. It's worth it to keep it off of my insurance. They'll charge $70.00 for attorney's fees if you weren't going as fast as I was with the 86/60. The most I've ever paid them was $90.00. Place may look like a hole in the wall but they've never let me down.

One more thing, expect that court date to change once, maybe twice. My State Patrol ticket had a court date that was changed like 3 days before the attorney was scheduled to appear. I called Rosenthal and Ringling up and told them of the court date change just to be careful.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 7:12:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 7:59:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 8:09:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 8:30:36 AM EST
Got a similar story to Jeff, I'm with American Family, same agent since I was sixteen, so just 11 years but I've had a few accidents, tickets my lovely wife takes care of (marry a lawyer ;P ). But my rates have also not ever gone up, infact down as I've gotten a home and bundled insurance now.

Cheap online insurance not so cheap mayhaps?

Justin W.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 8:48:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:44:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:50:12 AM EST

When I got one in college, I just called the prosecutor myself, explained it was my first ticket, and he agreed to drop it to a non-moving and fine. No attorney needed. I'd try that first to see if you can save some $$$.

Of coarse, if you were given a court date for speeding, I would guess you were going at least 25 mph over the limit, so the PA might not be so kind.



Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:52:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By CMMG:
Always had Shelter Insurance and never did lawyer up. It must be my winning smile.

Jeff


It's gotta be. If I even THINK of pleading guilty and paying the fine my rate goes up. My favorite is when the insurance companies tell me, "Look, your rates will possibly go up but it might take the computer 3 years before it finds you and before that 3 year period is up, the ticket will be off of your record."

Pfft. Yeah, right. 60 seconds after the judgement of guilty is entered into the computer system, the insurance company's computer system picks it up and increases my rates.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 12:24:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By fatk1d:
Brother Kane is quite correct when he states that your ticket is legal in MO. He's a little high on the price quoted for the attorney however. Take it from my ample past experience, you can get an attorney for $70.00 if you shop around.


Yes, you should listen to this man.... I think the city cop for my town actually ran out of tickets in his pad in the locally infamous speed trap location he got caught in visiting us. It is a tale still told around the family
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 12:58:20 PM EST
Finally something I can weigh in on and have first hand knowledge about.

I used to work as an actuarial analyst for an insurance company. I did pricing analysis, rate structures, and probability work. Two things are at play here. One, how many tickets and what the frequency is. Many companies have their brackets set at 0-1 tickets being a bracket with a floating time line. For example, let's say the timeline is 3 years. You get your first ticket, but that still puts you in the 0-1 bracket. At that point the clock starts for three years. If you go three years without another ticket then your slate is clean and you start over. However if you get another ticket in that time period then you move to the next bracket. It really depends on the company.

Duke is right about online companies. They are direct underwriters, there is no agent. If you are using a company where you go in and talk to an agent he should be able to talk to you about what the price difference will be if you get a ticket without "the company" knowing. And the agent is more than willing to help you in whatever way possible because he wants to keep your business. He could care less how many tickets you have, he wants you on his books, it's the corporate/company that wants to know your tickets so they properly classify and charge you.

If you are really intersted, you can actually walk into the Missouri Dept. of Insurance and request a copy of any companies pricing/rate structure. You will have to play like 10 cents a page if you want to make copies.

Link Posted: 12/27/2006 4:44:31 PM EST
When I got my last speeding ticket a couple of years ago, I had it "fixed" by an attorney named Dan Nack. He's got an office in the Old Town St. Charles area, and he only charges about $40 to "fix" a ticket - at least that was the rate a few years ago. So, you might want to try looking him up; you should be able to find him in the phone book.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 5:16:48 PM EST
Call those "Traffic Law Center" people.

They charge $70 to reduce it to non-moving.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 5:22:12 PM EST
The discount traffic lawyers work just as good as the "real" attorneys when it comes to fixing tickets. I think my last ticket cost me 70.00 at the "Traffic Law Center". Before Itired them I used my regular attorney and he charged in the neighborhood of 150.00 to fix it. Of course court costs are extra but it does pay to keep the points off your license.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:02:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Finally something I can weigh in on and have first hand knowledge about.

I used to work as an actuarial analyst for an insurance company.


When you get a chance, I'd like to know more about your thoughts on the actuarial job. I have an undergraduate degree in mathematics and I considered that line of employment once upon a time. Do you have a degree in math as well?
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 11:28:32 PM EST
So does anybody know the numerical formula for the price of a ticket? such as base 75+x4=full amount, x being the number of miles over speed limit.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 4:01:36 AM EST
Each county/municipality has their own fine schedule. Some have a base that is used for all charges, then has a series of modifiers depending on the offense.

Others have a fee for each offense category.

Depending on the jurisdiction, many post them on their court websites. Many also post the fine schedule on the back of the ticket.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 4:24:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By nturavrgcop:
Each county/municipality has their own fine schedule. Some have a base that is used for all charges, then has a series of modifiers depending on the offense.

Others have a fee for each offense category.

Depending on the jurisdiction, many post them on their court websites. Many also post the fine schedule on the back of the ticket.



Yup, look on the back of the ticket. Lots of times the most common offenses are covered there so that you can mail in the ticket and payment to dispose of the case.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 5:39:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Finally something I can weigh in on and have first hand knowledge about.

I used to work as an actuarial analyst for an insurance company.


When you get a chance, I'd like to know more about your thoughts on the actuarial job. I have an undergraduate degree in mathematics and I considered that line of employment once upon a time. Do you have a degree in math as well?


Very large IM sent fatk1d!
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:17:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2006 6:19:45 AM EST by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 7:38:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 5:25:05 AM EST by Miranthis]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By ar-rifleman:
So does anybody know the numerical formula for the price of a ticket? such as base 75+x4=full amount, x being the number of miles over speed limit.


In the jurisdiction where I'm prosecutor I can make up anything I want. So after consulting with some local attorneys (to make sure I wasn't going to be way out of line) here's what I do. The fine stays the same whether you get an attorney or not, but what an attorney gets you is the amendment to a non-moving. I won't amend unless you're represented.

If you're doing less than 15mph over the speed limit, I recommend $75.50 plus court costs of $34.50 for a total of $110.

If you're doing more than 15mph over, I recommend an amount equal to ten dollars per mph over the speed limit. Thus 45mph in a 25mph will cost you $234.50 after court costs.
[snip]
I love this job. Need to get a bigger, better prosecutor job though... wish me luck on that....


Duke, most placs here in KC are double the fine to get a non-moving or some set fee (KCK was like this the last time i had to fix one there - it was $300 for the first $400 for the 2nd and $500 for the third all plus the regular fine and costs). Olathe, last time i was in there at least, was 1.5 times the fine if you had a lawyer and 2 times the fine if you did it your self.

Of course, the last job i had I was "riding the circuit" across MO and KS at a clip of 3000 to 5000 miles a month and had a handful of tickets. Most of those went away as a professional courtesy before the HiPo even had me written up. A call to the local Prosecutor, a letter on firm letterhead and *poof*. Glad law school was good for something. Of course that trick does not work for "wife" tickets....that was close to bankrupting me for a while...she's calmed down a bit now....

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 7:44:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By fatk1d:
[snip]
It's gotta be. If I even THINK of pleading guilty and paying the fine my rate goes up. My favorite is when the insurance companies tell me, "Look, your rates will possibly go up but it might take the computer 3 years before it finds you and before that 3 year period is up, the ticket will be off of your record."

Pfft. Yeah, right. 60 seconds after the judgement of guilty is entered into the computer system, the insurance company's computer system picks it up and increases my rates.


Good luck with that. These days a lot of companies are running yearly automatic subscriptions (including my carrier Am. Fam.) to pull credit and DMV histories. In KS the drivers record is three years, but the information is not purged. If they find out about a MV most rating structures allow them to increase rate for 3 years after they discover or you report the MV. I don't advocate speeding, but the ticket fixing industry is a serious money maker for the cities. I'd rather pay them than the insurance company (and I still work for an insurance company - at least for the time being...)
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:19:40 PM EST
It was on highway 40/61 in saint louis county, ticketed by the highway patrol if that helps with the formula.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:36:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar-rifleman:
It was on highway 40/61 in saint louis county, ticketed by the highway patrol if that helps with the formula.


I wish I could say that I have a get out of free jail card, but those Highway Patrol guys would ticket their own mothers.

Since it was in the county, you will find that they could give a rats ass about the charge, as long as they get their money. If you want, shoot me an EMAIL and I'll give you the number of a good lawyer who is in private practice who was once a city councelor with the City. He may be a great contact for you.

In the meantime, once you get outside the city limits, don't drive 9 over the limit... they will get you and they have no mercy.
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