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Posted: 3/28/2009 9:37:36 AM EDT
where did I miss this?


SPOKANE, Wash. – The quest for squeaky-clean dishes has turned some law-abiding people in Spokane into dishwater-detergent smugglers. They are bringing Cascade or Electrasol in from out of state because the eco-friendly varieties required under Washington state law don't work as well. Spokane County became the launch pad last July for the nation's strictest ban on dishwasher detergent made with phosphates, a measure aimed at reducing water pollution. The ban will be expanded statewide in July 2010, the same time similar laws take effect in several other states.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090327/ap_on_re_us/bootleg_detergent_9



Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:45:13 AM EDT
No wonder it's getting harder to find that stuff!

It does seem to work better.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:01:18 AM EDT
Now, that explains things. 2 weeks ago I bought some dishwasher soap and wondered
why it left a scum/flim on teflon.


Answers my question. FU*KIN Governess, we really don't need these babysitters.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:16:18 AM EDT
It would be much simpler if the women would just wash, and dry them by hand.





We really need to start getting our women back in line.


Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:19:12 AM EDT
GD link

Spokane residents rebel over dirty dishes
Sierra Vista Herald/Bisbee Review ^ | NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS

SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) — The quest for squeaky-clean dishes has turned some law-abiding people in Spokane into dishwater-detergent smugglers.

They are bringing Cascade or Electrasol in from out of state because the eco-friendly varieties required under Washington state law don't work as well.

Spokane County became the launch pad last July for the nation's strictest ban on dishwasher detergent made with phosphates, a measure aimed at reducing water pollution. The ban will be expanded statewide in July 2010, the same time similar laws take effect in several other states.

But it's not easy to get sparkling dishes whenyou go green.

Many people were shocked to find that products like Seventh Generation, Ecover and Trader Joe's left their dishes encrusted with food, smeared with grease and too gross to use without rewashing them by hand. The culprit was hard water, which is mineral-rich and resistant to soap.

As a result, there has been a quiet rush of Spokane-area shoppers heading east on Interstate 90 into Idaho in search of old-school suds.

Real estate agent Patti Marcotte of Spokane stocks up on detergent at a Costco in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and doesn't care who knows it.

"Yes, I am a smuggler," she said. "I'm taking my chances because dirty dishes I cannot live with."

(In truth, the ban applies to the sale of phosphate detergent — not its use or possession — so Marcotte is not in any legal trouble.)

Marcotte said she tried every green brand in her dishwasher and found none would remove grease and pieces of food. Everybody she knows buys dishwasher detergent in Idaho, she said.

Supporters of the ban acknowledge it is not very popular.

"I'm not hearing a lot of positive feedback," conceded Shannon Brattebo of the Washington Lake Protection Association, a prime mover of the ban. "I think people are driving to Idaho."

Steve Marcy, manager of the Costco in Coeur d'Alene, about 10 miles east of the Washington state line, estimated that sales of dishwasher detergent in his store have increased 10 percent. He knows where the customers are coming from.

"I'll joke with them and ask if they are from Spokane," Marcy said. "They say, 'Oh yeah.'"

Shoppers can still buy phosphate detergents in Washington state by venturing outside Spokane County, but Idaho is more convenient to many Spokane residents.

Phosphates — the main cleaning agent in many detergents and household cleaners — break down grease and remove stains. However, the chemicals are difficult to remove in wastewater treatment plants and often wind up in rivers and lakes, where they promote the growth of algae. And algae gobble up oxygen in the water that fish need to survive.

While traditional detergents are up to 9 percent phosphate, those sold in Spokane County can contain no more than 0.5 percent.

The Washington Lake Protection Association has launched a campaign to encourage people to give the environmentally friendly brands a fair chance. The group suggests consumers experiment with different brands or install water softeners to help the green detergents work better.

"Clean lakes and clean dishes do not have to be mutually exclusive," said association president-elect Jacob McCann.

Phosphates have been banned in laundry detergent nationally since 1993. Washington was the first state where the Legislature passed a similar ban against dishwasher detergents, in 2006. The ban is being phased in, starting with Spokane County.

"It's nice to be on the cutting edge," Spokane resident Ken Beck, an opponent of the ban, said sarcastically.

Among other states that have banned or are banning phosphates in dishwasher detergent are Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Vermont, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York. A bill on Capitol Hill would impose a nationwide ban.

The Soap and Detergent Association, which represents manufacturers, initially fought the bans. But as the movement gained strength across the country, the association asked legislatures to delay bans until July 2010 to allow for a uniform rollout of products.

The industry has been working to develop better low-phosphate detergents, said Dennis Griesing, vice president of the manufacturers group.

"This is an irrevocable, nationwide commitment on the industry's part," he said.

For his part, Beck has taken to washing his dishes on his machine's pots-and-pans cycle, which takes longer and uses five gallons more water. Beck wonders if that isn't as tough on the environment as phosphates.

"How much is this really costing us?" Beck said. "Aren't we transferring the environmental consequences to something else?"
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:27:26 AM EDT
Aah, I never use soap anyway.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:29:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbitybobbity:
Aah, I never use soap anyway.


Your wife should be the one using it.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:33:17 AM EDT
It sounds bad but I work at a sewage treatment plant and phosphates are extremely cost prohibitive to remove from effluent before it goes to the sound, if you dont take them out they increase blue algae and can choke out the entire eco-system. Its one of the really bad(and true) parts of the environmentalists worst case scenarios.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:41:22 AM EDT
R32 is right, this is all the fault of the femi-nazis. whatever happened to "dishpan hands"?
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:47:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 1:31:56 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
Originally Posted By jonnyjeeps:
It sounds bad but I work at a sewage treatment plant and phosphates are extremely cost prohibitive to remove from effluent before it goes to the sound, if you dont take them out they increase blue algae and can choke out the entire eco-system. Its one of the really bad(and true) parts of the environmentalists worst case scenarios.



I saw something on TV about this I will try and find it, it was a system that would remove the phosphates and turn it into fertilizer,
if I recall correctly they would install the system and manage it for free in exchange for the fertilizer it produced.
This may be true


Link added:
http://earth2tech.com/2008/09/25/ostara-raises-105m-to-turn-wastewater-into-fertilizer/
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 11:53:35 AM EDT
Your link is a fail, most alternative treatments cant handle 2.5million gallons per day. But will likely work for smaller and more rural systems, smaller and more rural systems are not relly the problem,as you might have guessed.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:33:39 PM EDT
ban people....it's for the enviroment....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:42:31 PM EDT
No politician is going to take my suds and detergent.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:12:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jonnyjeeps:
Your link is a fail, most alternative treatments cant handle 2.5million gallons per day. But will likely work for smaller and more rural systems, smaller and more rural systems are not relly the problem,as you might have guessed.



I don't know why the link is failing, just highlight /copy/paste. the addy is good the link system is a fail.

The system they are doing in Oregon is for just over 500,000 people. Got a million people,use two systems side by side.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:21:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbitybobbity:
Aah, I never use soap anyway.



That's what dogs are for.... lay out the dishes on the floor. 20 or 30 minutes later.... squeeky "clean"... smells like dogs butthole.... but "clean".
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:26:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 1:33:10 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:33:01 PM EDT
First, they came for the dishwater detergent, and I said nothing, because I don't wash dishes.

Then, they came for....
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:04:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 2:14:13 PM EDT by Road-kill]
Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Link fixed, it wasn't properly formatted for the board code.


We have to do stinkin formatting too ????


Thanks Phil



Also, here are my phosphate free dishwashers.





Link Posted: 3/28/2009 3:44:21 PM EDT
Do it for the mexican children...
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 5:53:10 PM EDT
Think i'm gonna be a black market dishsoap smuggler
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 6:11:19 PM EDT
They can have my dishsoap when they pry it from my clean, chapped, hands.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 6:23:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PCR-00:
They can have my dishsoap when they pry it from my clean, chapped, hands.

I stopped getting dishsoap chapped hands when i stopped using it
as lube on my you know what when i did the you know what

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 11:29:46 PM EDT
What the hell is wrong with you guys?...



Unless you are single, THE WOMEN SHOULD BE DOING THE DISHES ANYWAY!!!
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 7:26:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jonnyjeeps:
It sounds bad but I work at a sewage treatment plant and phosphates are extremely cost prohibitive to remove from effluent before it goes to the sound, if you dont take them out they increase blue algae and can choke out the entire eco-system. Its one of the really bad(and true) parts of the environmentalists worst case scenarios.


1) You dont say they cat be removed, you say I have to pay more to do it. I will pay more for crap soap, pay more to rewash them and pay more to stress out over dirty dishes. I would rather pay you more to remove them.

2) The sound has a hella dilution rate. Dump the shit & let the sound get washed clean for free!

3) Smelly hippies are never right.

4) Read rule 3 again!



Link Posted: 3/29/2009 9:41:33 AM EDT
Also hard to find TSP here that has phosphates in it.........Kinda weird getting tri-soduim phosphate but is phosphate free.

T
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 10:26:31 AM EDT
We used TSP to clean surgical instruments when I worked at Swedish in the OR.
CLEAN is the word.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 10:57:36 AM EDT
They can have my soap when they pry it from my, uh, warm, wrinkly, lemon-scented fingers....








When they outlaw soap, only outlaws will have clean dishes!
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 11:02:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:
Originally Posted By jonnyjeeps:
It sounds bad but I work at a sewage treatment plant and phosphates are extremely cost prohibitive to remove from effluent before it goes to the sound, if you dont take them out they increase blue algae and can choke out the entire eco-system. Its one of the really bad(and true) parts of the environmentalists worst case scenarios.


1) You dont say they cat be removed, you say I have to pay more to do it. I will pay more for crap soap, pay more to rewash them and pay more to stress out over dirty dishes. I would rather pay you more to remove them.

2) The sound has a hella dilution rate. Dump the shit & let the sound get washed clean for free!

3) Smelly hippies are never right.

4) Read rule 3 again!




Only reason they can't be removed is because we are using 1970/60s Tech to clean something that requires 90's tech... Why do you think most manufacturing plants in the US have small water bills? because they reuse up to 95% of the water they take in... they clean it and use it for utilities and what not.

If we invested in a sewage system that was up to par with what we put in the water we wouldn't have to worry about phosphates in it o the Sound having to Dilute it.

Where are all those taxes that these companies are paying in order to "clean the environment" going to? They should be going to making our sewage treatment facilities BETTER but do you really think Gregwhore wants that? No fuck that, making jobs is not what she wants, taxing the shit out of us so that she can waste even more money is all that she's about...
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 11:44:44 AM EDT
So it's only the people on sewer that are affecting the environment while the people on septic are honky dory? I'm gonna have to talk to the wife about a large buy of phosphate cleaner while it's still available since she's the one that washes the dishes. Maybe by the time the stash runs out the hippies will have figured out a phosphate free formula that works. Too bad it will probably have some other unintended consequence.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 12:04:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HABU:
So it's only the people on sewer that are affecting the environment while the people on septic are honky dory? I'm gonna have to talk to the wife about a large buy of phosphate cleaner while it's still available since she's the one that washes the dishes. Maybe by the time the stash runs out the hippies will have figured out a phosphate free formula that works. Too bad it will probably have some other unintended consequence.

yea it'll start killing baby seals by causing the Orca population to grow... and God forbid baby seals die...


Link Posted: 3/29/2009 4:10:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HABU:
So it's only the people on sewer that are affecting the environment while the people on septic are honky dory? I'm gonna have to talk to the wife about a large buy of phosphate cleaner while it's still available since she's the one that washes the dishes. Maybe by the time the stash runs out the hippies will have figured out a phosphate free formula that works. Too bad it will probably have some other unintended consequence.


Like something that will kill the fish directly and avoid the oxygen depleting alge blooms, it will also cause multiple type of cancer in whales
and humans, but will not increase the alge growth.
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