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Posted: 10/10/2005 7:18:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:39:20 PM EDT
I get this:

An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator

I hope you can take the lead better than this!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:42:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 10:01:42 PM EDT
We can't find each other at the snack bar and you wanna try a NATIONAL event?
I fear you give us too much credit.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 10:33:19 PM EDT
And GM comes in with the cockblock!

I agree with what he says one hundred percent. We can't even get six guys to meet up at a hot dog vendor at 10 in the morning. We're worse at logistics than the Hittites.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 10:34:15 PM EDT
go to california clown im sure they would love it
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 3:56:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 7:45:01 AM EDT
I will be shooting every weekend for the next 30 years....all you have to do is show up!
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 9:33:49 AM EDT
of course there  gonna be out done by texas there all from california
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 11:56:16 AM EDT
Who is "there"?
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:13:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:18:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:27:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:33:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:46:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:56:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 4:26:10 PM EDT
I would beware if HiramRanger has anything to do with the organization of the event.....
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 5:08:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 6:49:27 PM EDT
That's his view.

Here's my side, and I guess the accuracy of the story lies somewhere in between. You be the judge.....

Here’s the element that HR slants: After several extended telephone conversations on my dime he gave me his word that he would obtain his CCW training from me while he was in town for the 2004 SHOT Show.

As a courtesy I had rearranged my calendar and put aside time for his training without him first paying any money up front (booking a course without first receiving tuition up front is something that I do not usually do). At the last minute he made a decision not to abide by HIS word and attend my CCW course (which he knew full well that I had condensed my regular 2-day course down to one day, and I was willing to accommodate him for a one-on-one private course based on his schedule). On top of that, and as an additional courtesy, I gave him my word that I would charge him a "Good Guy Price,” as he is a member of ARFcom.

I see it this way: His to-do list changed with the wind and he had paid no money up front to commit himself, so he had nothing to lose. By him doing that he left me hanging (that was not cool). What torques me is that he led me to believe that he had NO time to do the course with anybody while he was in town for SHOT. I found out that he had applied for his Nevada CCW permit only after he bragged in the Nevada Forum about taking the course elsewhere.

Hey, I could care less if a person decides to go to another course for whatever reason. Being in business has educated me of the fact that you will not always get every client. On the other hand, after the conversations I had with HR, and the fact that I had sent him an NRA DVD of Wayne LaPierre and the gun debate he had in England with rabid anti-gunner Rebecca Peters of IANSA, made the fact that he didn’t keep his word more bitter tasting. And to boot, he was supposed to join the NRA through me and he never followed up on that either.

I am in business. I don’t conduct courses for fun or to get out of the house on the weekends. I do what I do for a living, and it is how I provide for myself. When a person commits to a course and I set aside time to do it, I expect them to keep their word. He didn’t even have the courtesy to call me when he was in town.

As far as my training standards go HR is correct…. They are high. He has one thing confused though: I will not fail the student if their gun fails, I will fail the gun. The reason why I will fail a gun that cannot consistently make it through the live-fire portion of my course is because I refuse to sign off on a gun that only works “once in a while.”

The fact that he traveled from New York to do the training is irrelevant. If his gun would have failed I guess he would not have been able to apply for a Nevada CCW with that particular gun now would he? I also explained to him if I were to fail the gun it depended on the malfunction (i.e. if it was a failure to feed and the malfunction could be remedied by a simple “Tap” on the bottom of the magazine that would have been acceptable).

On the other hand if the gun had a “Double Feed” every other round…. I would fail that gun (possibly a damaged extractor). Also, my students can always put more than one gun on their CCW permit, so if one gun does fail at least they have another gun(s) to get the paperwork started.

I look at it like this: If your gun only works once in awhile get another gun. I do not teach basket weaving 101, or decoupage….. I train individuals to use firearms as defensive tools, and in order to complete the task at hand successfully you must have a tool that works. Period.

People do not pay me to get them a CCW permit; they pay the Sheriff of the county of which they reside for that. They pay me to keep them vertical, eating solid food, with no extra holes in them. And that is why I hold my training standards higher.

As far as HiramRanger goes, I have no hard feelings towards the man….. I just wouldn’t buy a used car from him.

Link Posted: 10/11/2005 7:49:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 7:59:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 8:00:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 8:02:20 PM EDT

You both have stated your cases well, let's let this arguement rest. Please.

Will do, WP.....
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:45:39 AM EDT
I played a minor role in putting together the first two UZI Talk events and I'd be happy to share some of my limited knowledge regarding what's involved and a couple of contacts. Beyond that, I will not become involved. There's way too much to be discussed here, so contact me back channel if you want any further input.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 8:40:13 AM EDT
I'd love to see a National type event in Vegas, if  it can be done. I know we could easily do something of that nature up here, we have Machine gun shoots at the Mustang range every couple of months, the .50 guys do a lot out at the Pyramid range. I understand nobody wants to go to Reno (neither do I).
Now, in Vegas, the attitude is a bit different. I'll not harp on the same old, but what about the Soldier of Fortune shoots and events? Where do they do their stuff? Surely the same venues could be utilized. Is it because they have money and insurance? Maybe it could be done in conjunction with the SHOT show, so there would already be a bunch of gunny folks in town.
I'd say don't forget that you'd probably also have to have "Facilities" (port-o-potties), concessions (water at least) and security.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:34:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:13:39 PM EDT

I played a minor role in putting together the first two UZI Talk events and I'd be happy to share some of my limited knowledge regarding what's involved and a couple of contacts. Beyond that, I will not become involved. There's way too much to be discussed here, so contact me back channel if you want any further input.

I went to the last Uzitalk shoot, and it was well run, organized and safe event.  I doubt anyone didn't have a good time.  Tom and I talked about the logistics of putting on an event like this here in Vegas, and honestly, once I heard what has to be done, I became a lot more skeptical.  I am all for an event, and I think, given the right people running it, it would come off better than any Gunstock has... that said I just don't know where we'd do it.  Desert Sportsmans range is flat out... they would go apeshit with all those black rifles.

Anyone seriously wanting to do this, I would really implore you to contact Vegas-SMG and pick his brain.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:44:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 7:34:21 PM EDT

Vegas-SMG check... maybe we could have lunch with him when I'm out there this month.

Let me know when you're coming and I'll see what I can set up.  A few of us should probably get together...
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 9:09:23 PM EDT
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