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Posted: 10/17/2004 10:05:32 PM EST
buy a SERIES I Kimber, the new WARRIOR, or a 70's Colt?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:39:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
buy a SERIES I Kimber, the new WARRIOR, or a 70's Colt?



You can within the state, but you can't buy it from a guy in Az/Nv and have him ship it here.

Has to be on the approved list of handguns to be imported into the Republik.

Check the DOJ site.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:47:00 AM EST
Can anyone explain what the approved gun list is? I know that only approved guns are sold here cause they are otherwise illegal, but what did they set out to accomplish with the law? I've seen perfectly good firearms not be sold here, or they take longer to get here than normal (Compact S&W99 wAs a good example). Is this just another Kalifornia sensable gun law that makes no sense?

Rayn
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:53:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Raynman83:
Can anyone explain what the approved gun list is? I know that only approved guns are sold here cause they are otherwise illegal, but what did they set out to accomplish with the law?


"They" are trying to discourage manufacturer's from selling here.


Is this just another Kalifornia sensable gun law that makes no sense?

Yes.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:11:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

Originally Posted By Raynman83:
Can anyone explain what the approved gun list is? I know that only approved guns are sold here cause they are otherwise illegal, but what did they set out to accomplish with the law?


"They" are trying to discourage manufacturer's from selling here.



manufacturers are willing to jump through hoops to sell here as Kali is one of the biggest market for handguns in the nation, if not the biggest
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:43:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Raynman83:
Can anyone explain what the approved gun list is? I know that only approved guns are sold here cause they are otherwise illegal, but what did they set out to accomplish with the law? ...



Excellent question!

The intent of Assembly Bill 15 was to put the manufacturers of cheap handguns like Jennings, Raven, Lorcin, Bryco, etc. out of business. The authors tried to design a series of tests so challenging that none of the really inexpensive guns would be able to pass it.

Ironically, all of the cheap handguns submitted have passed the test. From the perspective of a gun manufacturer it's a $10,000 per-model tax for the privilege of selling guns here, and since CA has something like 12% of the US market many of them think it's worth the price of admission. Raven and Jennings went bankrupt but their demise had nothing to do with AB15. Their products sucked.

AB15 completely failed to achieve its intended goal but now it's a cash cow for the Caliban.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:51:11 PM EST
Nope, I guess I can't. These pistols do not have the Cali approved safety mechanism found in the COLT SERIES 80 pistols or the SERIES II KIMBERS. The SERIES II and 80 series COLTs have a more complicated firing pin block or some crap like that. What a bunch of BULLSHIT!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:19:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
.
.
Raven and Jennings went bankrupt but their demise had nothing to do with AB15. Their products sucked.


In defense of Ravens & Jennings, they were excellent products for the intended purpose. They we're not designed to be fired a lot. They were designed to be fired only in self-defense. There are many people who are really not into guns, and want a gun that would last maybe a couple hundred rounds and that's it because they weren't going to fire much. Why should they be forced to buy a gun for hundreds of dollars to be only fired no more than a few hundred rounds? To me those guns were pretty reliable, you pull trigger and it fired.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:06:57 PM EST
If they were really dangerous to users or were unsafe to handle they would have been knocked out of the market by the personal injury and defective product lawsuit industry. As it is, the State has more or less put it's imprimatur onm all the "approved" guns. It will be extremely dificult to sue for being an unsafe product after the state has sasid it is safe.

Much as it is a real pain in the butt, I think in the long run it actually helps us. As noted with few exceptions most guns pass the test.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 10:29:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 10:31:35 AM EST by California_Kid]

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Nope, I guess I can't. These pistols do not have the Cali approved safety mechanism found in the COLT SERIES 80 pistols or the SERIES II KIMBERS. The SERIES II and 80 series COLTs have a more complicated firing pin block or some crap like that. What a bunch of BULLSHIT!



Not quite right. The reason you can't buy a particular model is because the manufacturer has decided not to pay the money and go through the hassle of selling it in Cali.

The Springfield Armory PW9108L is a traditional USGI type pistol, analogous to a 70 series Colt, and it's available here.

www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-GI.shtml
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 11:09:59 AM EST
Off topic I know.

Whether it be the M1911, or M1911A1, does anyone here own an original?
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 12:14:48 PM EST
I have the M1911 my stepgrandfather brought back with him from when he was in the Army of Occupation in Germany after WW1. He later got it cadmmium plated when a guard at a war plant in WW2. Since it has no collector value, I'm adding a beavertail grip and ambi-thumb safety and improved sight.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 1:24:23 PM EST
PaDanby,

Great provenance behind that sidearm. To bad he had it replated. Regardless though, there's nothing like the feel of the real deal.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 1:29:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By California_Kid:

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Nope, I guess I can't. These pistols do not have the Cali approved safety mechanism found in the COLT SERIES 80 pistols or the SERIES II KIMBERS. The SERIES II and 80 series COLTs have a more complicated firing pin block or some crap like that. What a bunch of BULLSHIT!



Not quite right. The reason you can't buy a particular model is because the manufacturer has decided not to pay the money and go through the hassle of selling it in Cali.

The Springfield Armory PW9108L is a traditional USGI type pistol, analogous to a 70 series Colt, and it's available here.

www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-GI.shtml



That's cool, but I was specifically looking for a SERIES I KIMBER or a 70's SERIES COLT for a future custom gun build.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 9:51:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:
PaDanby,

Great provenance behind that sidearm. To bad he had it replated. Regardless though, there's nothing like the feel of the real deal.



Let's just say that I definitely can tell why they extended the top of the grip safety and the longer trigger is nice too. It's by no means a match gun, although it does well with the sights it has but it is sure maximized to being a point and shoot pistol even compared to the 1911A1 I traded for another gun. You can feel how well it would do in a rough and tumble brawl in the trenches. Comes naturally to a good one handed point and you just look down the top almost ignoring the sights
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:49:50 AM EST
Hey Urban, the low end Springfields are real nice to do mods on. Either the WWII or Mil-spec can be massaged to whatever you want by King's in Glendale. Top quality 1911 smiths using their parts or parts you buy elsewhere, all will be mated to perfection. Not too expensive either.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:25:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:32:16 AM EST by Garand1911]

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:

Originally Posted By California_Kid:

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Nope, I guess I can't. These pistols do not have the Cali approved safety mechanism found in the COLT SERIES 80 pistols or the SERIES II KIMBERS. The SERIES II and 80 series COLTs have a more complicated firing pin block or some crap like that. What a bunch of BULLSHIT!



Not quite right. The reason you can't buy a particular model is because the manufacturer has decided not to pay the money and go through the hassle of selling it in Cali.

The Springfield Armory PW9108L is a traditional USGI type pistol, analogous to a 70 series Colt, and it's available here.

www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-GI.shtml



That's cool, but I was specifically looking for a SERIES I KIMBER or a 70's SERIES COLT for a future custom gun build.




most pistols today, espcially foreign-made/designed have firing pin safetys to pass the federal '68 GCA's importation rules. kimber 1 and colt 70s are no longer made, colt hasnt made 70s any for over 20 years, and kimber1 its been just a few (3-5?) years. colt did make a special run of original 70s series 1911a1's, but as far as i know did not submit them to testing in calif. the firing pin safetys are just method of preventing lawsuits.

you can still buy a USED kimber1 or colt70. dont buy into the firing pin safety affecting the trigger paranoia, your average shooter prolly wouldnt be able to tell the differnce. you can still build a damn fine custom 1911 off a kimber2 or colt 80. infact the FP safety mechanism can be removed turning it back into a 70series and have no affect on the trigger or the guns operation.

i think springfield armorys 1911s are all 70series, get the basic model and customize it.


+1 on Kings Gun Works you cant do much better than them, everyone i know goes there. they did my gun, and many others ive seen.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:57:17 PM EST
SamK: Thanks for the information, but I kinda want to stay away from the Sringfields because of QC problems and some other issues that I learned about via Tactical Forums. Those issues have probably been addressed by now, but I'd still put the KIMBERS and COLTS ahead of the SPRINFIELDS.

Garand1911: KIMBER currently has two pistols out with SERIES I internals: the Warrior and the 25th Anniversary model. And COLT has a reproduction 70's series that is regular production. And I hear ya about the SERIES 80 COLTS and KIMBER II's. I guess I'm just being really picky. But I've heard that it's a bitch for a novice to do maintenance on this guns, though I don't know if one would need to break down the gun that far to clean, as I do not have ANY experience with the 1911 platform.


As for KINGS GUN WORKS, are they really THAT good? What's the turn around time? Do they have a website?
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:50:15 PM EST
havent heard about the new kimbers, and i think the 70series colts are not submitted to kali, but i could be wrong on that, havent looked at the list in a long while.

the the detail strip of a series 80 colt isnt any harder than a 70. there is a small plunger and spring in the slide (which many guns have now) and this can be taken out and tossed, without causing any problems to the gun. in fact the plunger has caused problems, i think some S&W 1911s were recalled because of this. then there is 2 small flat pieces, one that works with the sear and then pushes another piece that sits on top of the frame, which pushes the slide plunger up, allowing the firing pin to move forward.
you wouldnt need to detail strip a gun very often, maybe every few years if you shot a lot.

www.kingsgunworks.com
yes they are very good, Jan Libourel of Gunworld mag has his 1911s built there and shows them a lot in the mag. turn around time i dont know, i hear they have been super busy this past year.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:30:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:34:39 AM EST by SamK]
Yeah, King's is really that good. They've been in the 1911 game for a long time, and some of the custom stuff you see in 1911's now, originated from them. The reason I suggested the Springfield was the low base price. If you're going to mod the pistol anyway, it's good for the forged slide and frame. I would also suggest a Norinco for the same reasons. Cheap price+forged slide and frame+King's=Just as good as a Wilson,Baer,Brown for less money (I know I'll catch some heat for that, but I stand by the statement). Of course, if you're patient and visit a few shops often, you never know what you'll find in the used dept(possibly a Kimber ser.1). Good luck!!

ETA-Turn around time for King's is usually about 4 weeks (unless SUPER busy) and includes refinish time (they do the refinishing in batches from what I understand). Again, WELL worth the time and money.
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