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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/21/2005 11:37:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 11:45:25 AM EDT by xmikex]
So... The Gunshow "Loophole" has been closed - does that mean that we can no longer do FTF sales in IL. without a NICS Check & waiting period? Or does it only mean that when individuals are selling at gunshows they have to have the NICS check?

As I understand it, you have to have a NICS check, waiting period, etc. etc. to buy from another individual (non-dealer) at a gun show now. Does this apply to non-gunshow sales as well?

Edited to add:
From the Governor's press release, it sounds like it only applies to gun shows.... Google is my friend..

Governor's Press Release

July 29, 2005

Gov. Blagojevich signs legislation closing gun show loophole in Illinois;New law makes it tougher for criminals to get firearms
Background checks now required at Illinois gun shows
CHICAGO – Taking an aggressive stand against gun violence, Governor Rod R. Blagojevich, joined by Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, today signed legislation that closes the gun show loophole that allowed gun buyers to avoid comprehensive background checks. Senate Bill 1333, sponsored by Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago) and Rep. Harry Osterman (D-Chicago), requires gun sellers at firearm shows to request background checks for potential gun purchasers. The new law takes effect immediately.

"Today we celebrate the triumph of common sense and a better chance at safe neighborhoods – neighborhoods free from violence, neighborhoods free from fear,” said Gov. Blagojevich.
“Before we signed this bill, individuals could attend gun shows and buy weapons, regardless of their criminal history, putting our families and our neighborhoods at risk. This law will help keep dangerous weapons out of criminal hands, making our communities safer and more secure.”

“People who want to purchase firearms at gun shows in Illinois will now go through the same important background checks as people who buy from licensed retail dealers,” added the governor.

SB 1333 requires gun sellers, who are not federally licensed firearms dealers, to request background checks from the Illinois State Police (ISP) before they can sell guns at gun shows. If ISP determines, after a background check is conducted, that the buyer is qualified to own a gun, the state police will issue an approval number that is valid for 30 days, during which time the sale must take place. Additionally, the seller must retain records of sales for at least ten years and make those records available to law enforcement agencies for criminal investigations.

"I want to thank Governor Blagojevich for signing this bill today, and I commend all the individuals and organizations who worked so hard for its enactment," said Mayor Richard M. Daley. "Chicago's crime rate has been dropping for 14 years, and this legislation will make the city and communities across the state even safer by making it more difficult for criminals to obtain guns."

"Public safety is not a partisan issue, and we were able to advance this historic gun control measure with bipartisan support. We sent a clear message that we want these guns off the market for gang bangers and gun traffickers. Many elected officials, members of law enforcement, and gun control advocates worked on the passage of this legislation for many years, and I thank them for their efforts. I appreciate the governor's leadership and thank him for his support," said Rep. Harry Osterman (D-Chicago).

“The purpose of gun laws is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It doesn’t matter where they make the purchase,” said Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago). “The technology is there to close this loophole that allows the sale of guns to people who should not have guns and we should use it.”

In recent years, the U.S. Department of Justice, U.S. Department of Treasury, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco, and Explosives reported that between 2,000 and 5,000 gun shows take place annually - Illinois being among the top ten states for the most gun shows. A June 2000 federal study found that almost 26,000 guns recovered after crimes came from gun shows or flea markets. The federal reports also found in gun show investigations, felons are associated with selling or buying guns almost half the time.

Guns purchased at gun shows have been used in some of this country’s most notorious and deadly crimes - including the 1999 Columbine High School tragedy in Colorado. The two 17-year-old boys who shot 26 students, killing 13 of them before turning the guns on themselves, obtained two shotguns and an assault rifle from a friend who purchased them at gun shows from private sellers. The woman later stated that had she been required to undergo a background check at the gun show, she never would have purchased the guns for the boys.

“Governor Blagojevich is to be greatly praised for championing and signing a bill which will help protect our communities from shootings and killings,” said Dr. Gary Slutkin, MD, Executive Director of CeaseFire Illinois. “Governor Blagojevich has developed a successful multi-faceted campaign to help our neighborhoods become safer and more liveable - and residents all over the state are very grateful to him for these efforts. This is a critically important step forward in helping to save more lives.”

The signing of SB 1333 builds on the governor’s continuing effort to stop gun violence in Illinois.

· In June, the governor signed HB 524, HB 132, and HB 35, which imposed harsher prison sentences for individuals convicted of a crime using a firearm. The bills included mandatory prison time for second or subsequent offenses.

· The governor also signed HB 348, which requires State Police to report the name and address of a person who attempted to get a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card (FOID card), but was denied, to the local law enforcement agency where the person lives.

· The governor announced $3.9 million for Operation CeaseFire programs in Illinois in the coming fiscal year, including seven $250,000 grants for communities that will receive funding for the first time. Last year, Gov. Blagojevich increased funding for CeaseFire to expand from five Chicago communities to fifteen communities around the state.

· In March, the governor created an elite gun trafficking police unit to stop the flow of crime guns into Illinois. The gun unit works with federal authorities and law enforcement agencies from Indiana and Mississippi to detect and capture gunrunners and illegal dealers. More crime guns flow into Illinois from Indiana and Mississippi than from any other state.

· The governor has pushed strongly for the state assault weapons ban currently being considered by the legislature. The legislation would ban assault weapons and .50 caliber rifles in Illinois, which are extremely dangerous weapons. The ban would outlaw weapons such as UZIs, AK47s, and TEC-DC9s.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:07:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 1:07:32 PM EDT by codycoyote]
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:24:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By codycoyote:
He's our resident Legal Eagle.

It is his job, after all

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:51:23 PM EDT
We are all much, much safer now.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:54:54 PM EDT
Is there even a provision for John Q. Gunowner to do an FTIP, or does this mean that any transaction at a show has to go through an FFL?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:59:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:04:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By codycoyote:

Originally Posted By mr_camera_man:
Is there even a provision for John Q. Gunowner to do an FTIP, or does this mean that any transaction at a show has to go through an FFL?

It's my understanding that you have to enter you FFL# to do a FTIP. so I do believe that is the true smoking bullet.

Perhaps one of the FFL's will explain the FTIP process, or maybe someone else in the know will.

Anyone who can legally own a gun can sell one at a gun show. Prior to this law being enacted, only those at the gunshow who were FFL's were required to call in for the background check & approval, which when approved is good for 30 days.

the "loophole" was that a private owner could "set up shop" at the show, and sell to his hearts content w/o having an FFL or needing to call in backgrounds. In effect, it was, literaly, an unlicensed business being conducted under the heading "hobby."

Once the new law went into effect, it now required ALL persons selling guns at gun shows to call Illinois State Police for the background check. Once approved, it's still good for only 30 days during which the transaction must be completed. If not, a new call/approval would have to happen.

It's not really that big of a change, some people were practically pulling the classic Fred Sanford move: "Liz'beth, HERE I COME, it's the BIG ONE" over having to make a background check phone call to sell at a gun show. I'd choose to avoid that type of seller anyways, so no biggie for me.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:00:54 AM EDT
NPD: I was thinking of selling some guns (or at least trying to) at Lakemoor next month. My question is: as a non-FFL, how do I go about making this call? Will there be a new number for non-FFLs? Thanks, Andy
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:53:37 AM EDT

Can you please clarify the legal definition of gunshow? My club (ASC) is having a swap meet after our general meeting and I want your opinion on if this qualifies as a gunshow, or is only ISP recognized events.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 9:18:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 9:30:54 AM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By LoadedDrum:

Can you please clarify the legal definition of gunshow? My club (ASC) is having a swap meet after our general meeting and I want your opinion on if this qualifies as a gunshow, or is only ISP recognized events.

I don't give legal opinions. I can tell you what the law is or says, but I'm not an attorney. Your club might want to consult their attorney or the local State's Attorney's office for an opinion on whether your swap meet is a "gun show". I believe all "gun shows" have to be recognized by the Illinois State Police. Form for doing so is here

As for the FTIP phone number...

First off, here's the law requiring ISP to provide the number...

430 ILCS 65/3.1
(Text of Section from P.A. 94‑353)
Sec. 3.1. Dial up system.
(a) The Department of State Police shall provide a dial up telephone system or utilize other existing technology which shall be used by any federally licensed firearm dealer, gun show promoter, or gun show vendor who is to transfer a firearm under the provisions of this Act. The Department of State Police may utilize existing technology which allows the caller to be charged a fee not to exceed $2. Fees collected by the Department of State Police shall be deposited in the State Police Services Fund and used to provide the service.
(b) Upon receiving a request from a federally licensed firearm dealer, gun show promoter, or gun show vendor, the Department of State Police shall immediately approve, or within the time period established by Section 24‑3 of the Criminal Code of 1961 regarding the delivery of firearms, notify the inquiring dealer, gun show promoter, or gun show vendor of any objection that would disqualify the transferee from acquiring or possessing a firearm. In conducting the inquiry, the Department of State Police shall initiate and complete an automated search of its criminal history record information files and those of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, including the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and of the files of the Department of Human Services relating to mental health and developmental disabilities to obtain any felony conviction or patient hospitalization information which would disqualify a person from obtaining or require revocation of a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card.
(c) If receipt of a firearm would not violate Section 24‑3 of the Criminal Code of 1961, federal law, or this Act the Department of State Police shall:
(1) assign a unique identification number to the

transfer; and
(2) provide the licensee, gun show promoter, or gun

show vendor with the number.
(d) Approvals issued by the Department of State Police

for the purchase of a firearm are valid for 30 days from the date of issue.
(e) The Department of State Police must act as the Illinois Point of Contact for the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
(f) The Department of State Police shall promulgate rules not inconsistent with this Section to implement this system.
(Source: P.A. 94‑353, eff. 7‑29‑05.)

Now, that, combined with the fact that all gun shows must be recognized by ISP by way of the above linked form, I would assume the "Gun Show Promoter" would be provided with the dial up number to be disseminated to all vendors registered with the show. I'm not sure how they work out the logistics of it, since I don't work for ISP or any gun show promoter.
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