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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/20/2006 2:25:53 PM EDT
just had run in with this bad boy in my backyard in Dallas....he lost
I was tearing down a brick wall and he was inside it...almost crapped my pants when I whacked away some bricks and his gut shot out... glad I stopped using my hands like I was before..







copperhead is my guess..
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:30:23 PM EDT
second dat
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:49:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 2:52:25 PM EDT by Bulldawg]
Yup, copperhead.

Well, browsing Google images, this one seems to have a slightly different pattern... but it's close enough to a copperhead that I'd avoid it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:55:11 PM EDT
Damn....my dog came in the house about a year ago and her face was all swelled up. We took her to the vet the next day and he said her liver enzymes were all jacked up. Wonder if my city vet missed a snake bite.

pic of dog for good measure...

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:20:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CQToverVmatch:
just had run in with this bad boy in my backyard in Dallas....he lost
I was tearing down a brick wall and he was inside it...almost crapped my pants when I whacked away some bricks and his gut shot out... glad I stopped using my hands like I was before..

www.hunt101.com/img/387948.jpg



www.hunt101.com/img/387954.jpg

copperhead is my guess..


From what you can see of the eye (elliptical-looking pupil), as well as the head shape (arrowhead), I'd tend to agree.

FWIW, the copperheads I grew up with around Hearne were a bit more full-bodied, with generally lighter camo.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:46:40 PM EDT
take some pics of the side of his head.

That snakes appears WAY too skinny and the tail is not blunt enough for copperhead, I could be wrong, but I doubt it
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:24:52 PM EDT
out with the trash...don't feel like digging him out..
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:39:23 PM EDT
rat snake...but still dead
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:39:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:10:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COZ_45:
Pit viper shaped head....but, could be a Lyre snake...they have fangs way in the back of their mouth and rarely get venom in a human. But, you usually see them in desert areas, so, probably not...

But could also be a very skinny copperhead. The head shape is the big key.


With my uncle raising snakes (mostly rattlers) as a kid, I've been fooled by identification so many times it's not even funny.

Now my maxim when it comes to snake ID is this: "Any snake identification *not* based on scalation is usually just a good guess."
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:32:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 6:42:54 PM EDT by RenegadeX]
I whack several Copperheads a year. I am not really sure what yours is, it is very similar to a CH, but the head and camo are slightly different. Where in Texas are you?. ETA Never mind, I see you are in Dallas. The only poisonous snakes native to DFW are Rattlers, CHs, and Water Mocassins. That thing you have looks like something from Africa. Very long and slender, triangular head, I am not sure what it is. Probably a CH, has been in hibernation and is thin and off-color.

If your dog was bitten by a CH, it probably would have died, probably was a bug bite.

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:58:19 PM EDT
I'm not so sure that "If your dog was bitten by a CH, it probably would have died..." I had a dog that liked to kill/eat copper heads. He soaked up a good number of copper head bites. Mostly they just made his nose swell up- he would get a sort of Spuds McKenzie snout.

His tail did stop working for a couple of weeks once, but the vet said that was a spider bite.

He never was a really smart dog, but he did live for about ten years after copperhead bites.


-Semper Yut
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:14:29 PM EDT
no one has accused my dog of being smart...we call her bimbo, all looks, no brains...
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:30:43 PM EDT
I can tell you that is a texas rat snake (elaphe obsoleta lindheri). there is a chance (small chance) that it could be a grey rat snake (elaphe obsoleta spiloides). They are part of the coludrid snake family.

I would bet it is a texas rat snake ( 98% positive ) I have caught literaly 100's of them.
I have caught just as many (southern)copperheads (agkistrodn contortix)

RenegadeS's post is a Southern Copperhead.



Hope it helps



Invisiblesoul
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:44:11 PM EDT
thanx bud
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:00:55 PM EDT
no problem

Invisiblesoul
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:08:57 PM EDT
Too bad you killed a non-poisonous snake.

That said- that would have been one dead Mo-Fo if it had come out of a wall I was tearing down.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:56:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 8:57:58 PM EDT by pepperbelly]

Originally Posted By TheInvisibleSoul:
I can tell you that is a texas rat snake (elaphe obsoleta lindheri). there is a chance (small chance) that it could be a grey rat snake (elaphe obsoleta spiloides). They are part of the coludrid snake family.

I would bet it is a texas rat snake ( 98% positive ) I have caught literaly 100's of them.
I have caught just as many (southern)copperheads (agkistrodn contortix)

RenegadeS's post is a Southern Copperhead.



Hope it helps



Invisiblesoul




Found a pic of a rat snake with similar coloration.

Rat snakes



Jim
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:16:56 PM EDT
I can tell you that is a texas rat snake (elaphe obsoleta lindheri). there is a chance (small chance) that it could be a grey rat snake (elaphe obsoleta spiloides). They are part of the coludrid snake family.

I would bet it is a texas rat snake ( 98% positive ) I have caught literaly 100's of them.
I have caught just as many (southern)copperheads (agkistrodn contortix)

RenegadeS's post is a Southern Copperhead.




+1 He is rite. I raised snakes for years. People still wonder why my e-mail is texasherps
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:19:42 PM EDT
The top pic is classic of a very young Texas RAt Snake
The Middle pic shows 2 snakes the one on the left is the more classic of the two
As the bottom pic shows They can be agressive ( if you mess with them )
They get over 6 feet long and can draw some major blood if one gets you, and yes I know because I have taken lots of hits from ratsnakes and many others.



Invisiblesoul

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:49:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 7:50:42 AM EDT by COZ_45]
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:03:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By COZ_45:
I know that Invisible Soul and others are very smart dudes....

Take a look at this picture a Texas Lyre Snake...... the head shape is what keeps me from thinking the one killed was a rat snake...amazing how much the colors look alike.

www.whozoo.org/Intro2002/AnnaSaucedo/ARS_TexasLyreSnake.html

I've only seen one Lyre snake in my life and it was at the zoo. Edited to add....they love rocky places......like bricks...



What does "mildly venomous" mean??
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:19:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By presto99:

Originally Posted By COZ_45:
I know that Invisible Soul and others are very smart dudes....

Take a look at this picture a Texas Lyre Snake...... the head shape is what keeps me from thinking the one killed was a rat snake...amazing how much the colors look alike.

www.whozoo.org/Intro2002/AnnaSaucedo/ARS_TexasLyreSnake.html

I've only seen one Lyre snake in my life and it was at the zoo. Edited to add....they love rocky places......like bricks...


What does "mildly venomous" mean??


There are some erudite, old, and quite-possibly now dead herpetologists who were of the opinion that *all* (or "most") snakes were venemous.

For example, the "toxicity" of the venom from the "Big Four" in Texas is quite well-established. However, the venom from the Lyre Snake may be so dilute (think molarity/molality from chemistry) that it won't kill a person, but may still cause some discomfort. Further, even though it won't kill a person, it will still kill a frog, salamander, etc. That's the [rough] definition of "mildly venemous".

Another tack to approach it from is that different venoms may affect different organisms differently (not purely from a 'concentration' perspective). For example, it may be that venom from a certain snake affects two species of similar size differently (such as a lizard and a hampster, both weighing 1kg), due to biochemical differences^1 or variation in body structure.^2

It's been so long since I really delved into the herpetological journal literature that these opinions may have already been discredited. I would imagine there's been at least *some* movement since they've gone to molecular/biochem analysis of so much now (though the traditionally-hot snakes do steal most/all of the thunder in this area).

Best,

Jake.

1. For example, both organisms have a heart, but different enzymes/chemicals are at work in the two hearts. One of which is affected by the venom, the other which is not.

2. For example, the venom may affect the liver. One organism *has* a liver (and is therefore, affected); the other does not.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:37:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 11:38:25 AM EDT by wise_jake]
To add to the above, see this post on kingsnake.com.

I first saw the account the poster references regarding the longnose (and its encounter with a potentially-venemous "nonvenemous" snake) in a book I was reading while researching the longnose that I collected in Dumas, TX (about 50mi N of Amarillo).

I had seen, held, captured, and released numerous longnose snakes over the years, but had never seen one like the specimen I collected in Dumas. I suspected it might be a longnose, but the coloration was *so* different from any I'd ever seen that I refused to tell anyone what type of snake I'd caught until I'd identified it by scalation.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:10:16 PM EDT
The pic of the Lyre snake (trimorphodn biscutaus) is a very dark specimen, however the normal Lyre snaks is much lighter shade, a very light tan. they are found from S.Kali to the Big Bend regin of Texas. This is not a snake(Lyre) you will find in dallas. The Lyre does not have true fangs but has grooved teeth in the very back of the mouth(upper jaw only). This venom is very mild and is kind of hard to realy call it a venom. There are 3 Lyre snakes the Sonora (T.b. lambda) the California (T.b. vandenburgi) and the Texas (T.b. vilkinsoni) . This is the one found in Texas, New Mexico, and Mexico

Many snakes flare out their heads when threatened to make them selves look bigger.

Invisiblesoul
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:06:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fishman_P97DC:
I'm not so sure that "If your dog was bitten by a CH, it probably would have died..." I had a dog that liked to kill/eat copper heads. He soaked up a good number of copper head bites. Mostly they just made his nose swell up- he would get a sort of Spuds McKenzie snout.

His tail did stop working for a couple of weeks once, but the vet said that was a spider bite.

He never was a really smart dog, but he did live for about ten years after copperhead bites.


-Semper Yut



My grandparents had a dog (border collie based mutt) that had been bitten 3 different times (that I know of) in the face by copperheads.... face swelled (and gave her a shit-eating grin) for a week or so.... pathetic, but survivable.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:33:44 AM EDT
Same thing happened to a friends dog, but when the swelling got bad the leather collar cut of its air supply and it died. They were not home at the time, or their dag would still be here.



Invisiblesoul
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:08:23 AM EDT
I know what kind of snake it is.........

It's a dead snake.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:24:24 AM EDT
Ah yes....and that's the BEST kind!!!
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 9:31:59 AM EDT
had to throw in my bit, That is a texas ratsnake, I used to catch and raise the things, and I have seen them do the head spreading thing several times. It's kinda startling at first, but to me, the worst things they do is produce a really god awful musk when they are frightened
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:27:35 PM EDT
Our oldest lab was bit by a copperhead when she was about 5 months old. My mother in law took her to the 24 hour vet, and antihistimines were given. The vet held off on the antivenom as the dog was not showing signs of labored breathing, and the antivenom would have added 4 or 5 hundred bucks to the bill.

The dog is OK now, but dumb. After getting bit by one snake, she was jacking with a 44' watermoccoson in the back yard one day... Smart...

Watching the poison "move" through the animal is really strange. At first, her whole head swole up like a cartoon character. Over the next 4 or 5 days, the "lump" of swelling migrated to her ass end. Really strange to see!


Link Posted: 3/23/2006 9:49:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Allison:
Ah yes....and that's the BEST kind!!!




Link Posted: 3/24/2006 4:19:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NFA_Investments:
After getting bit by one snake, she was jacking with a 44' watermoccoson in the back yard one day...



That's a BIG fawkin' watermoccosin!
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:38:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bulldawg:

Originally Posted By NFA_Investments:
After getting bit by one snake, she was jacking with a 44' watermoccoson in the back yard one day...


That's a BIG fawkin' watermoccosin!


The Texas Watermoccasin (Watermoccasinis Texanis) has been known to reach lengths of up to 44' 6".
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:22:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 3:23:53 PM EDT by SC-Texas]

Originally Posted By NFA_Investments:
Our oldest lab was bit by a copperhead when she was about 5 months old. My mother in law took her to the 24 hour vet, and antihistimines were given. The vet held off on the antivenom as the dog was not showing signs of labored breathing, and the antivenom would have added 4 or 5 hundred bucks to the bill.



NFA_Investments left off the best part of the story: His vet is a real customer service kind of guy.

He called NFA_Investments the next day:

"Do you still have a dog?


He probably dispatched the 44" moc with a suppressed .22 pistol
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