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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 3/28/2007 4:57:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2007 5:05:31 PM EDT
Hi Jason..

Thanks for the support. Don't be intimidated if you get a call from Calif DOJ making threats (they can do that to out of state vendors) - and get a recording. If you have problems please get in touch with me.

California bans guns (other than via configured features suites) as AWs by make AND model combination.

The list of banned-by-name AWs is at
ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf

Basically,
Colt AR-15 ..... banned
Colt Match Target.... banned
Colt Match Elite ...... *not* listed -> not banned
Bushmaster XM15 .... banned
Bushmaster Carbon-15 - not listed, therefore not banned

DPMS is questionable ("DPMS Panther (all)") so avoid it.

The other brands you have listed - Stag, POF-USA, DoubleStar are all fine.

Rock River Arms (RRA) marks their receivers as "LAR-15" and these are entirely legal too.


Regards,
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Link Posted: 3/28/2007 5:10:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigDawg308:
Hey guys. You all were so helpful to me when I had questions regarding certain upper configurations to California that I thought I would ask for more assistance. I recently received my FFL and I see a lot of dealers in the EE who say "WE DON'T LOWERS SHIP TO CA". I want to continue to be a Cali-friendly dealer, so what do I need to do to LEGALLY ship you guys lowers. Right now I am carrying POF-USA (in stock), Stag Arms (inbound soon), and DoubleStar (in stock). I will probably pick up RRA which I think is on the "no-no" list to CA. I will also be carrying the MAGPUL lowers when they hit the streets. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Jason @ BigDawg Tactical


To legally ship them, either ship them stripped, or with a fixed stock and no pistol grip, or permanently attach a magazine using one of several CA legal methods. For most dealers, the easiest way to do this is to just ship them stripped. Some receivers like Cav Arms have pistol grips permanently built in. The only way to ship one here legally would be to permanently attach a magazine.

The thing to watch out for, is the receivers that are on the list of named AR/AK receivers. This list is in the pinned posts at the top of this forum. Don't ship any that are on the named list. Both the manufacturer AND model have to be on the list. So if RRA had a new FUDOJ-15 model, that would be ok to ship, even though several of their other models are not. Manufacturers like Stag who arent on the list are easier, because any model would be OK to send.

You can also ship in completed rifles, if you follow the guidelines of either removing the pistol grip, collapsible stock, vertical front grip, flash hiders, or you could fix the magazine.

On other rifles that are not AR/AK, watch out, because some of them are also listed by manufacturer/model in the same pinned post at the top of the forum

Link Posted: 3/28/2007 5:13:34 PM EDT
I had a BIG post made up, but then I remembered I already did this in great detail on Calguns, so here is a link:

www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41334

Generally speaking, aside from a couple dozen specific models, any AR and AK receiver can be sent here. That is a VERY simplistic generalized statment, but you will be perfectly fine with POF, Stag, and Doublestar (assuming they are stripped receivers, or in specific configuration - the easiest being a fixed stock with NO pistol grip and no upper or an upper with no flash suppresor). RRA depends on the model, some are banned others are not, so you'd have to check the list with your EXACT model (both the manufacture and model have the be list together).

Thanks for supporting out state!
Link Posted: 3/28/2007 5:20:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2007 5:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2007 5:26:06 PM EDT by NeoWeird]
There is no 'grey' area with sending a stripped lower with any parts installed, unless it's a pistol grip or a non-fixed stock (folding, collapsing, or thumbhole) with an open mag well. You can actually ship a lower, with a fixed buttstock, like an A1/2 stock, and all internal parts (a full fixed stock lower without the pistol grip essentially) without problem. Obviously though it is your business and you can run it as you see fit, but do not be afraid to send both together - pretty much just keep in mind that if the magazine well is open then it can't have a pistol grip or a non-fixed stock. If the magazine is fixed (honestly, not really worth the effort for out of state dealers) than it doesn't matter what you have on there.

So just make sure there is NO pistol grip, and either a fixed stock or NO stock and you will be fine.

ETA: I feel the need to reiterate that thumbhole stocks are just as evil here in California as pistol grips or non-fixed stocks. So don't send those attached either, however those are a VERY popular item for Californians as they fill in the hole with any number of materials and it's a legal alternative to no pistol grip. So they are legal, just don't send them attached to a receiver.
Link Posted: 3/28/2007 5:25:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigDawg308:
Thanks for the info guys. That's pretty much what I thought, but I wanted a little reinforcement. Right now, I only plan on shipping stripped lowers to CA. If you want to purchase a LPK, I'll ship it to you and not your FFL. I already ship a ton of LPK's to CA so no big deal there. I just don't want to take a chance of liability of shipping a complete lower or a lower with an LPK installed.


Thanks for the support.

BTW, is that the head cheerleader for UGA in your avatar pic? She's a real dog. WOOOF!

Link Posted: 3/29/2007 12:36:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigDawg308:
Thanks for the info guys. That's pretty much what I thought, but I wanted a little reinforcement. Right now, I only plan on shipping stripped lowers to CA. If you want to purchase a LPK, I'll ship it to you and not your FFL. I already ship a ton of LPK's to CA so no big deal there. I just don't want to take a chance of liability of shipping a complete lower or a lower with an LPK installed.
Thanks for thinking about the CA gun owners!

Do you plan on selling CA compliant complete lower halves? It's actually easy to install a Prince50 Mag-Lock Kit on an otherwise normal configuration with a pistol grip. But only you can determine if that's profitable for you.
Link Posted: 3/31/2007 12:16:54 AM EDT
Thanks for the support! Head on over to calguns.net
Link Posted: 3/31/2007 2:00:51 PM EDT
What's the price on ur double star?
Link Posted: 3/31/2007 6:43:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2007 1:43:01 PM EDT
1,000,000 thanks for supporting CA! hat
As long as you detach the stock and pistol grip before shipping , it is 100% legit and the informed CA FFL's will accept them for transfer. (Shipping the stock/PG to the consumer and the lower to the FFL would be the most conservative route.) It is the consumer's responsibility to make sure his build is CA legal. (This absolutely can be done with a PG and collapsable stock as long as the consumer installs a mag-lock kit first, and these kits have been commercially available for some time now.)

Shipping a LMT lower with LPK pre-installed to CA is not a problem because nothing in the LPK can possibly constitute a "banned feature" (i.e. collapsable stock, pistol grip, flash hider).
Link Posted: 4/3/2007 5:59:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2007 2:59:27 PM EDT
I'm not an expert but from what my local gun shop owner has told me stripped lowers are TECHNICALLY ok but the DOJ suggests that when DROS'ing one you should advise the purchaser to build it the correct way (with a ten round mag 'permanently' attached.) Since you're an out-of-state dealer I would expect there to be no problem with you shipping to other FFL's here in CA and you don't have to worry about the DROS anyway.

Maybe some of the folks in the EE don't know the regulations out here or maybe they just don't want to get invovled with what seems to some to be a somewhat grey area. I know of a couple shops here in town that won't deal with AR's except with law enforcement.

You mentioned in your post that you got some good info regarding CA upper assembly info...got a link to that thread or any insight? I'm still struggling with knowing what I can do to my upper....

Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/10/2007 3:42:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By black_rifle-mike:
I'm not an expert but from what my local gun shop owner has told me stripped lowers are TECHNICALLY ok but the DOJ suggests that when DROS'ing one you should advise the purchaser to build it the correct way (with a ten round mag 'permanently' attached.) Since you're an out-of-state dealer I would expect there to be no problem with you shipping to other FFL's here in CA and you don't have to worry about the DROS anyway.

Maybe some of the folks in the EE don't know the regulations out here or maybe they just don't want to get invovled with what seems to some to be a somewhat grey area. I know of a couple shops here in town that won't deal with AR's except with law enforcement.

You mentioned in your post that you got some good info regarding CA upper assembly info...got a link to that thread or any insight? I'm still struggling with knowing what I can do to my upper....

Good luck.


Go to Calguns.

There is a FAQ there written by Bill Weise and it will go into detail about all of what is allowed. A pinned magazine is NOT the only way, and is actually one of the least prefered methods. Your FFL just sounds like he heard from someone that heard from someone and he doesn't really know how things are working.

To help you out a bit, assuming you are using a fixed magazine since you mention that is the only legal way, then you can do ANYTHING to your upper as long as you follow length requirements on both state and federal ends. State would be 30" overall and federal would be 16" barrel (these are the two lengths that will apply to a fixed mag AR-15 style of rifle). Keep in mind if you have a collapsing or folding stock the 30" overall measurement is in the SHORTEST possible configuration. The FAQ at Calguns will go into more detail about WHY you have to have this lengths, what your other options are, and how to go about doing it the right way.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 6:00:30 PM EDT
Thanks for supporting us on the front lines of the war on the 2A. Post some stuff on calguns.com. I still have more friends that are looking to buy and everybody seems to be sold out!

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