Need your input

Range Complex

Originally posted in GD

The annual membership fees are extremely high.  IMO, that's not how you limit the "douchebags".  You can primarily do that with a background check and/or board vote....possibly even references.  Even then, you're still going to get quite a few.  If you price it too high, you're going to lose valuable members who can't stomach/justify the fees.  Especially with the economy the way it is and the way it's looking.  This is going to be the biggest catching point you'll see from people.

I belong to a range that charges a significant annual fee/application fee.  If they charged that type of money, they wouldn't have very many, if any members.  I get what you're doing, but I think it's too much.

The range/club would be exclusive, and annual members would have first rights to lanes/facilities over day use shooters. - if I was out there for a day and I had someone kick me off a lane, that would be the last time I went there.  That's not the way to cultivate potential future members.

Sounds like a nice range, but with those fees they've priced themselves out of the market. That being said, I'd really like to see that range just west of Nashville in Cheatham County. There is plenty of land, access to the area from both I-40 and I-24 and it's relatively close to Nashville. Based on what I know about the area the county gov would be more business friendly to such a concept. More friendly than Davidson County anyway.

I'll give you my thoughts, worth what I'm chargin' ya...

I've been a paying member of two 'semi-private' clubs.

The first was in Pinellas County, FL (the Wyoming Antelope Club).
This range is a covered, outdoor range smack in the middle of the most populated county in Florida. The greater Tampa area population is probably 3+ million people.
It had everything you mentioned except sporting clays and rifle ranges over 100 yds (I think they've put in a 200 yd line since I left). It has a clubhouse, serves beer when shooting is done, hosts major IDPA events, training, yadda yadda yadda.
Membership was ~$240/yr and your daily rate went down to $5/day as a member.
The general public could shoot (at the public line only - ie, benched longarms, no rapid fire, pistol under control, paper bullseye targets only) for $15/day.
Easy access and the public line helped in my view and there were multiple volunteers (shoot for free, shoot after line closed) who generally kept a tight ship. One or two were simply assholes, but most were just fellow shooters hanging out for the day or retired folk (it is FL).
You can lookup youtube videos of the range but it made enough money to install 4-5 levels of ~ 20ftx8ft pre-stressed concrete baffles across approximately 60 shooting positions along with massive earth and timberworks.
All this to reduce liability so the range could stay open and serve the 1000+ member along with the general public.

There was a second major range about 1 hr north of Tampa (Hernando Sportsmans Club) where they host 2-3 major machinegun shoots each year, 200 yd covered line, 100 yd covered public line, multiple bays, sporting clays, cowboy action, yadda yadda yadda.
So this range was a little bit of a drive but the annual dues were ~$125/yr and about $10 to shoot all day. Much more flexible (could shoot machinegun, whatever but don't act like a dumbass).
Even though it was a lot cheaper and more flexible (I also shot practical rifle matches there) I didn't join because it was really a hike and I went there once a month anyway to shoot a match for $10.

The second range I joined was here in Memphis (MSSA). All the stuff you mentioned except the longest line is 600 yds.
It's $600 for the first year and then about $200/yr from that point forward.
After my earlier experiences in Florida I was shocked at the price but I paid it because this is really the only game in town unless you want to shoot indoors and that's not only a hassle (to me) it also gets expensive very quickly.
This range is what I'd call semi-private, members can bring guests up to 3x but the general public is excluded.
Lots of flexibility once you get checked out (setup steel, setup practical stages and plink, etc etc)
I like it a LOT.

From what I see MSSA do pretty well but even with the yearly fee, money seems a little tighter than it was at either of the other two clubs I knew in FL.

My takeaway?
You really need money from the general public to make it very profitable. But you'll also have to deal with the general public and people acting like fucktards or nincompoops so be prepared to kick folks out or have eagle-eyed RSO's.

The clays stuff is a moneymaker, the basic lines (pistol and rifle) are de rigeur. The other stuff is nice but is a loss leader.
I hardly EVER see people on the long distance ranges. That's going to be like 2% of your visitors.

I don't know his market but I think he's pricing himself too high and the 'perks' probably aren't going to attract a lot of shooters at first.


Good luck with it.

I'll limit my response to the military fee you mentioned. I know not all bases have something like range 16 at ft Campbell, but if there is a base nearby that does, good luck getting servicemembers to pony up the money you had listed. I see that range 16 does have a fee now, 30 bucks for a season pass. They are getting it nice enough that I am preparing to register my weapons on post and let my annual pass at Montgomery county lapse. As someone on active duty, while I can't speak for all of us, the majority of us are cheap. Most of us wouldn't want to lay out that kind of cash for a year long membership only to find out we are getting deployed 3 months into it either.   If there isn't a base nearby that is big enough to have a POW range, chances are there aren't that many military close by either.  

Again, I don't know if there is a base close by that has facilities comparable to ft Campbell, but if there is, pretty much everything you mentioned is available for way, way less money, and even though there are some goobers on base, the short bus contingent, and the fudds who don't like all that new fangled stuff most of us like to shoot are much less likely to be a problem than they would be at even a semi private range.

I would start small and built up.  To roll out in full would take a huge amount of capital, require several state and possibly local permits to construct and build.  There is no way most people in TN are going to pay this much coin to shot as a member. Start up and overhead costs will eat you alive.  TWRA will be one of your biggest competors, that is good and bad.

This is a range in CA......

Who Is the martial arts dude?

I've seen lots of people decide to not get a membership to MCGC due to the $150 first year and $90 anual fees . 3 pistol ranges , 1 one rifle range with 50 , 100 and 200 yard ranges and 8 clays ranges next to the clubhouse . They have rifle matches , IDPA and lots of clays matches . The rifle and pistol ranges are covered and they allow FA shooting ( some crazy guys even shoot skeet with SBS's ) . There are also smaller houses at the rifle and pistol ranges to cool off in or warm up in . They also have some of the best and most helpfull RO's around .

Good luck with the fees , but I'd drop them some . For that kinda money I agree with some of the others and make it very exclusive . There has to be a reason to pay that much to go shooting . Lots of percs would also help too .

imho, if you want to see how to not run a range, check out usletons.

I would say something...but im afraid Rick would cry and run to his attorney and try to sue me.  (again...lol)

The more exclusive you make something... the more the "high end" gangbangers want it, in my experience... It becomes a status symbol to them... Cadillac, Lincoln, nice neighborhoods getting ruined...

You need to implement something other than just a hefty price tag to keep them out, recommendations, board review, something... otherwise, youll keep the peons out... and end up with a smaller number of seriously unhinged gang-bangers...

My $0.2

He did say it was being modeled after mid to high end country clubs.  I've been a member of a couple of those and they always have some recommendation process to become a member, whether that's approval by a committee or several members you know signing off on your application.

I think it could go over in SoCal.  Here, not so much unless you adjusted the prices down.  That could be done because land and (possibly) labor would be significantly cheaper.

The only problem with the golf course analogy is that gun guys tend to be cheaper than golf guys (myself included).  How many times do you see a guy in a golf shop haggling over $10 off the price of a $400 driver? Not often.

I'll post a different opinion and say that I would pay $800 per year IF......

No range officers
No public access
No bullshit rules telling me I can't draw from concealment or fire more than one shot per second

1000yd rifle range with a plethora of steel targets throughout and a minimum of 20 firing points that can be reserved up to a week in advance (24hr cancellation - don't show for your reservation twice and your reservation privileges are gone for a year)
Multiple carbine/pistol bays (ie; enough that I can get my own when I show up) with steel, paper stands, and training aids (barriers, old cars, and such)
Free firearms transfers (I pay the background fee)
Max 150 members
My spouse and children come with me for free
Two guests per visit for the first three guest visits per year and $25/ea/day for guest visits in excess of three times per year

Well I guess if anything, this thread has shown some of the unrealistic expectations people have.

While I like the variety of range, especially the >100 yard, I don't see much of anything there to justify me spending $800/year.  Depending on location and target selection, I might be sway to think about it more, but as it stands, you're competing with a lot of farmers who willing let you use their land for free, or an indoor range in the area if it's too uncomfortable for you outside.

The $10/day is very nice.  Other than not using a, as I perceive things such as this, status-symbol country-club, why would I pay $800/year?  I can pay the $10/day 80 times and still be shooting on the public access days more than once a week.  I doubt I'd do that anyways.  

I'm just not seeing anything there to justify the cost structure.

I would pay twice the MSSA rate if there was a range worth it in mid-tn.

$$ doesnt keep the riff raff out.