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Posted: 10/8/2004 8:04:31 AM EST
Can someone help me out? I have a deal brewing with a member from NJ. The deal involves a handgun. He has a NJ handgun purchase permit. Do we need to use a FFL? I was under the impression we could bypass the FFL by doing a face to face sale and me taking the proper copies of the permit and mailing them to whereever they go.

Any help is appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:13:08 AM EST
.

Any time you cross state lines you need to involve a FFL for a modern pistol.

That may or may not apply for C&R depending on the state involved.

.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 1:00:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 1:41:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 1:44:20 PM EST by shaggy]
Its irrelevant whether the gun is a handgun or a longarm.

Absent some specific exceptions, an unlicensed individual cannot sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed individual across state lines. Doesn't matter if its a pistol or a rifle/shotgun. An FFL can receive a gun from an individual in another state and an FFL can sell a long gun to a resident of another state if the sale complies with the law of both states. Interstate transfers of firearms between two unlicensed individuals is forbidden. Longarms can be sold/transfered in many states without an FFL between residents of the same state and some states also allow FTF deals between residents of the same state for handguns. PA, however, only allows a non-FFL transfer between two PA residents for longarms.


18 USC 922(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:12:01 PM EST
Thanks for the info guys. Does it make a difference if it is a trade? and no money is exchanged?
I am dealing with a pretty nice guy from Jersey. We have a trade in the works for 2 of my AR uppers for one of his FALs (the complete gun). If I understand you guys correctly, we can't even do that trade? I explained the handgun problem to him and we just agreed to do the upper and long arm (FAL) trade. Please don't tell me I can't have that FAL



Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:09:47 AM EST
.


Makes no difference if its a trade, money has nothing to do with it. Its the transfer of a firearm across state lines that's the problem if your not a FFL.


Sure you can do the trade, you just need to have the FAL transferred through a FFL.

.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:48:53 AM EST
Thanks crffl. I appreciate the info. I didn't want to do anything illegal.
Problem is these guys with FFL's want 50-60 bucks on each end to do the transfer add shipping and you tack on another 125.00 to the deal.

Why the hell has everything got to be so damn complicated?

-Mike
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 10:34:16 AM EST
.

Why not just meet at the dealer location to do the transfer. That way there will only be one fee and no shipping involved.

.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:41:48 PM EST
So you are saying I can drive into NJ to a local FFL and hand him the pistol and complete the transaction that way?

That indeed would be welcome news today

-Mike
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:29:18 PM EST
No, that is still illegal. It violates the Federal interstate commerce aspects of the GCA of 68. Even myself, as a dealer, can not take handguns across state lines for such a transaction. Nor can I buy them out of state and bring them home.

The law requires that handguns be shipped via common carrier(I think?) from one FFL to another FFL.

There was a big stink about this issue several years ago at gunshows. Dealer A comes up from Virginia to sell at a gun show in Pa. He cannot sell handguns to Pa residents as an out of state dealer, so he hands the gun to a Pa dealer at the same show to "run thru his books" and then complete the transaction to the end buyer. The Feds say NO WAY. Even though the Pa dealer can legally sell to Pa residents, the Feds maintain that the handgun must be SHIPPED to the FFL.

I know it sounds like crap, but that is the law.

John
Seneca Arms Co Inc
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:32:53 PM EST
PS, there is nothing in the law that prohibits you as an individual from shipping a lawfull owned firearm to a licensed FFL of another state. Legally you do not need to ship it from an FFL but it MUST be shipped to one. This is why you can ship a firearm back the manufacturer or a gunsmith direct.

However, most shipping places will generally not allow individuals to ship and will require FFLs only as part of their store policy, but not law. One caveat though, only FFL holders can ship handguns thru the Post Office.

John
Seneca Arms Co
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:41:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 5:44:15 PM EST by PK90]

Originally Posted By hipwr223:
No, that is still illegal. It violates the Federal interstate commerce aspects of the GCA of 68. Even myself, as a dealer, can not take handguns across state lines for such a transaction. Nor can I buy them out of state and bring them home.


As an FFL, you may acquire any firearm in any state. Disposition of them must take place in your home state.

The law requires that handguns be shipped via common carrier(I think?) from one FFL to another FFL.

Not necessary to send from an FFL, only to an FFL.

There was a big stink about this issue several years ago at gunshows. Dealer A comes up from Virginia to sell at a gun show in Pa. He cannot sell handguns to Pa residents as an out of state dealer, so he hands the gun to a Pa dealer at the same show to "run thru his books" and then complete the transaction to the end buyer. The Feds say NO WAY. Even though the Pa dealer can legally sell to Pa residents, the Feds maintain that the handgun must be SHIPPED to the FFL.

The PA dealer could sell to the VA dealer, as he is his home state, and the VA dealer can take possession, as stated above. You're right. It would not work the other way around.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:13:21 AM EST
Oops I was confusing FFLs and non licensed transactions there a little. I ment to say an FFL CAN take posession however, an individual cannot. I was refering to the fact that I can not buy across state lines as an individual unless I AM an FFL.

And as I pointed out in my second post the gun must be shipped to an FFl not from one.

Thanks for correcting me.

John
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:24:57 AM EST
thanks again for the info guys.
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