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Posted: 8/25/2005 8:36:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 8:40:24 PM EDT by 1GunnerHogan1]
LOL....
Gotta be a bitch for the LEFT WING ECO-FRUITCAKES to get from drug deal to the welfare office
Not that I like the higher prices, but I got a MASSIVE boost on the Exxon Stock I bought 20 years ago....Holy Smoke.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:48:06 PM EDT
Seattle has nothing on Richland, had to pay 3:05 a gallon there are our way through.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:40:51 PM EDT
Something that irritated me earlier today was that I pulled up to a pump and it was out of the cheap stuff. I was in a hurry, so I had to pump in teh mid-grade, getting thoroughly ripped off.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:41:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:48:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Teknic:
You figure with the gas prices so hight people would be {surely you mean carpooling} commuting more but traffic still sucks.

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:55:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 10:56:29 PM EDT by Scollins]
I'm not crazy about the current price of gas, but I really get pissed when people say "the government should do something about gas prices!! Did you see the profits the oil companies made recently??" Well NO FUCKING SHIT!!! It is a (mostly) free market economy, and they are charging what the market will bear. It is supply and demand. The price elasticity of gas is lower than other commodities, but that doesn't mean the government needs to get involved to put price controls in place.

Now, if price fixing and collusion is going on, that shit needs to be busted with extreme prejudice. I just don't see it. The oil corporations are seeing and opportunity to get more profits, and that is why they exist.

I want to tell these people that want the government to do something the following:
Drive LESS! Take fewer trips, plan your errands more carefully, car pool, walk, whatever.
Drive a more fuel efficient vehicle! I love SUVs, but very few people that have them need their unique features and capacity. Most never put them in 4 wheel drive, nor tow anything.

I don't say that because I'm some eco-nazi, but that is the consumer response required. If you don't like the price, consume less of it.....

I do have to admit that I generally don't give a shit about gas prices, because my company provides a car and pays for all the gas I use in that car......
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:11:27 PM EDT
Hey Scollins, the .gov SHOULD do something to reduce gas prices--REDUCE GAS TAXES AND REGULATION. The reason prices are so high is that there is NOT a free market. Environmental regulations keep there from being sufficient supply and then taxes jack up the prices even more. Other that your oversight of that point, I agree with your post.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:11:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SARS:
Hey Scollins, the .gov SHOULD do something to reduce gas prices--REDUCE GAS TAXES AND REGULATION. The reason prices are so high is that there is NOT a free market. Environmental regulations keep there from being sufficient supply and then taxes jack up the prices even more. Other that your oversight of that point, I agree with your post.



You are correct, I did forget about the extortion excessive taxes on gasoline!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:25:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Scollins:
You are correct, I did forget about the extortion excessive taxes on gasoline!



It is not just taxes, it is the codes rules and regulation that allow the criminal state to create government protected monopolies like the oil companies.

I can produce ethanol fuels bio-diesel etc but not without the ATF assualting the production facility.

Someday the people will wake up to the fact that government is nothing more than organized crime and the people can do better by themselves without the satan ass-sucking agents feeding on them all the time.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:39:16 AM EDT
Think things are bad now? Wait till the new gas taxes go into effect here in WA (unless they are stopped at the voting booth)
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:24:28 PM EDT
We bought our Subaru back in 2000, when we saw gas heading for $2.00/gal. Since then, we've been watching all the huge trucks and SUVs appear on the roads and now we're watching them start to disappear. The diesel trucks are still hanging in there, though. We can still tank up for about $35.00.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:04:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 3:50:13 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Scollins:
You are correct, I did forget about the extortion excessive taxes on gasoline!



It is not just taxes, it is the codes rules and regulation that allow the criminal state to create government protected monopolies like the oil companies.

I can produce ethanol fuels bio-diesel etc but not without the ATF assualting the production facility.


Someday the people will wake up to the fact that government is nothing more than organized crime and the people can do better by themselves without the satan ass-sucking agents feeding on them all the time.




Loosen your already.

WHY would the BATFE raid someone for only making Biodiesel? (I won't comment on the ethanol because I don't have the background knowledge of making it to judge whether you would be in violation of any part of the AorE in BATFE)

On February 18, 2005 the Seattle PI reported on Lyle Rudensey.

Several times a month, Rudensey collects used cooking oil from Chinese restaurants in his Columbia City neighborhood and carts it back to his garage in five-gallon jugs. There, he whips up a batch of home brew for a used Jetta TDI wagon he bought on eBay. In a little more than two hours, he makes 22 gallons, which last up to two weeks.


I'm not aware of a BATFE raid in Columbia City since that time, did I miss one?

I don't see the BATFE coming after you for your waste stockpile of crude glycerol (alternately known as glycerin), which Seattle Biodiesel sells off in 275 gallon totes.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:44:28 PM EDT
If I ever buy a car that runs on fat, you guys should start getting nervous.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:50:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
If I ever buy a car that runs on fat, you guys should start getting nervous.



Why because there won't be any double bacon burgers left for us at Razzels?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:01:04 PM EDT
I know it is hard for socialist hippies to comprehend the pioneer spirit but I will try to explain just the same, you see in the early years of this country government did not exist, there was no mayor, no city council, no sheriff, no standing military, nothing but settlers and indigenous tribes, things were peaceful and the economy prosperous as the people doing the labor were the first to benefit from it, the settlers bought the land from the indigenous tribes and they genrally got along just fine, but then the pluto-crat settlers showed up on the scene, {read "Son's of the profits"=seattle} {Milltown=history of everett} along with military force that made it possible for settlers to steal the land instead of buying it, which lead to wars.


Government is nothing more than organized crime, a way for lazy people to steal from those that labor honestly.


The state is the great fiction by which everybody tries to live at the expense of everybody else.
Author: Frederic Bastiat


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:47:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
I know it is hard for socialist hippies to comprehend the pioneer spirit but I will try to explain just the same, you see in the early years of this country government did not exist, there was no mayor, no city council, no sheriff, no standing military, nothing but settlers and indigenous tribes, things were peaceful and the economy prosperous as the people doing the labor were the first to benefit from it, the settlers bought the land from the indigenous tribes and they genrally got along just fine, but then the pluto-crat settlers showed up on the scene, {read "Son's of the profits"=seattle} {Milltown=history of everett} along with military force that made it possible for settlers to steal the land instead of buying it, which lead to wars.


Government is nothing more than organized crime, a way for lazy people to steal from those that labor honestly.


The state is the great fiction by which everybody tries to live at the expense of everybody else.
Author: Frederic Bastiat





1497 - John Cabot of England explores the Atlantic coast of Canada, claiming the area for the English King, Henry VII

1565 - The first permanent European colony in North America is founded at St. Augustine (Florida) by the Spanish.

1606 - The London Company sponsors a colonizing expedition to Virginia.
1607 - Jamestown is founded in Virginia by the colonists of the London Company. By the end of the year, starvation and disease reduce the original 105 settlers to just 32 survivors. Capt. John Smith is captured by Native American Chief Powhatan.

1619 - The first session of the first legislative assembly in America occurs as the Virginia House of Burgesses convenes in Jamestown. It consists of 22 burgesses representing 11 plantations.

On November 11, 1620 the Mayflower Compact is signed by the 41 men, establishing a form of local government.

That's not what I would call a long and distinguished history of there being no goverenment in existance.
There were what? Less than 500(?) colonists at the time they saw fit to form a government?

If you want to speak of peaceful existance make sure to include:

that under Grenvilles leadership an expedition (composed of a large number of veteran soldiers who had fought in Ireland) in 1585(?) burned an indian chief to death in in retaliation for the disapperance of a silver cup.

that under Lane in 1586 the group on Roanoke Island took an indian leaders son hostage and demanded food for his return.

In 1612 the trade in tobacco was started, in 1619 slaves were being imported. Yes indeed those were prosperous times for the people doing the labor.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:23:27 PM EDT
You only made the point more clear b]Phil, those were all done under the flag of some government, none of those were the actions of individual pioneer settlers, the people that came first and did not have any troubles until the socialists showed up.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:35:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
I know it is hard for socialist hippies to comprehend the pioneer spirit but I will try to explain just the same, you see in the early years of this country government did not exist, there was no mayor, no city council, no sheriff, no standing military, nothing but settlers and indigenous tribes, things were peaceful and the economy prosperous as the people doing the labor were the first to benefit from it, the settlers bought the land from the indigenous tribes and they genrally got along just fine, but then the pluto-crat settlers showed up on the scene, {read "Son's of the profits"=seattle} {Milltown=history of everett} along with military force that made it possible for settlers to steal the land instead of buying it, which lead to wars.


Government is nothing more than organized crime, a way for lazy people to steal from those that labor honestly.


The state is the great fiction by which everybody tries to live at the expense of everybody else.
Author: Frederic Bastiat





1497 - John Cabot of England explores the Atlantic coast of Canada, claiming the area for the English King, Henry VII

1565 - The first permanent European colony in North America is founded at St. Augustine (Florida) by the Spanish.

1606 - The London Company sponsors a colonizing expedition to Virginia.
1607 - Jamestown is founded in Virginia by the colonists of the London Company. By the end of the year, starvation and disease reduce the original 105 settlers to just 32 survivors. Capt. John Smith is captured by Native American Chief Powhatan.

1619 - The first session of the first legislative assembly in America occurs as the Virginia House of Burgesses convenes in Jamestown. It consists of 22 burgesses representing 11 plantations.

On November 11, 1620 the Mayflower Compact is signed by the 41 men, establishing a form of local government.

That's not what I would call a long and distinguished history of there being no goverenment in existance.
There were what? Less than 500(?) colonists at the time they saw fit to form a government?

If you want to speak of peaceful existance make sure to include:

that under Grenvilles leadership an expedition (composed of a large number of veteran soldiers who had fought in Ireland) in 1585(?) burned an indian chief to death in in retaliation for the disapperance of a silver cup.

that under Lane in 1586 the group on Roanoke Island took an indian leaders son hostage and demanded food for his return.

In 1612 the trade in tobacco was started, in 1619 slaves were being imported. Yes indeed those were prosperous times for the people doing the labor.




There have always been evil bastards, there always will be, and plenty of them. Some of europe's rejects were nothing more than criminal predators who were turned loose onto the wild frontier. Most were of a different sort. 99% of the labor was done by the settlers own hands. The tabacco trade was one of America's first successes. Tobacco continues to be used in recreational, argricultural and industrial applications today. Trading with the Indians was the norm until the military and federal gov't entered into the picture, when it became tightly controlled, stripping the Indians of their land and resources. I have never found a instance of where the immigrant citizens voted to steal the country. Stratiotes is talking about the same crime organization that rules over us today, as it has for over 200 years. Even the founding fathers complained of the selfish bureaucrats and free-spending politcians.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:06:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
You only made the point more clear b]Phil, those were all done under the flag of some government, none of those were the actions of individual pioneer settlers, the people that came first and did not have any troubles until the socialists showed up.




Well shit Strat it's ALWAYS been under the flag of a government. ALWAYS!

Spain sponsored Columbus.
England sponsored Cabot
France sponsored Giovanni da Verrazano

St. John's, Newfoundland is the oldest European settlement in North America, founded on the feast of St. John the Baptist, June 24, 1497. Cabot sailed under the English Flag. On August 5, 1583, Sir Humphrey Gilbert took possession of the region for England. Cabot was the first European since the Vikings verifiably known to have reached mainland America.

The Roanoke Colony was the second English colony in the New World, after St. John's in Newfoundland. Sir Walter Raleigh,received a charter for the colonization of Virginia from Queen Elizabeth I.

To be blunt this period where you say

you see in the early years of this country government did not exist, there was no mayor, no city council, no sheriff, no standing military, nothing but settlers and indigenous tribes, things were peaceful and the economy prosperous as the people doing the labor were the first to benefit from it, the settlers bought the land from the indigenous tribes and they genrally got along just fine,
was pre-everything in North America.

The first truly successful English colony was established in 1607(Jamestown, where only 32 of 105 survived the first year)). The lost Colony in Roanoke was established in 1586. Both of those were under the flag of government.

You seem to be basing your statements on "4 guys living in huts 300 miles from each other" on a very sparsley populated land mass and that is a specious claim at best.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:21:36 PM EDT
Who governed the territories before they got chopped into little states?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:04:44 PM EDT
Oh Gawd! Big words. Big words hurt my head.

Make the bad man stop!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:04:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tumbleweed:
Who governed the territories before they got chopped into little states?



OK, my knowledge of recent history (especially where politics are concerned) is weak, but IIRC they had "Terratorial Governors" before a territory was granted statehood.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:20:25 PM EDT
I came across this graph today of gasoline prices adjusted for inflation.

Link
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:25:52 PM EDT
Where we differ in point of view Phil is that you get your information from history books wriiten by criminals to make themselves look good, my point of view comes from flesh and blood biography of my family.

If people do not agree on the contract, it is involuntary, equal to rape, it must be voluntary.

My gripe against big cities (gov) is they always use democracy {the mob} to legitimize plunder, the reason for the high taxes is to pay for services in the city none of which benefit the rural agrarian economy, instead the military power of the high density urban areas enslave the farmer.

Do what you like in your city, but if the evil of democracy further encroaches upon me I will resist !
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:45:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
Where we differ in point of view Phil is that you get your information from history books wriiten by criminals to make themselves look good, my point of view comes from flesh and blood biography of my family.

So then your family settled in what is now the United States prior to at least 1586? Otherwise how could you know via your "flesh and blood biography of your family" what the pre-under the flag of government land was like?

If people do not agree on the contract, it is involuntary, equal to rape, it must be voluntary.
Reconcile that with your proposal to eliminate "limited lability insurance, the individual needs to take full responsibility for its actions and bear the full cost, if it doesnt have assets enough to pay for the damage it needs to be a slave until it pays it off."
archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=185435


My gripe against big cities (gov) is they always use democracy {the mob} to legitimize plunder, the reason for the high taxes is to pay for services in the city none of which benefit the rural agrarian economy, instead the military power of the high density urban areas enslave the farmer.

Tell me, in general do taxes flow into big city from the rural agrarian economy or do they flow out of the big city and into the rural areas? IOW does Seattle contribute tax money to Chewelah or is it the other way around? Which one gets the most dollars in benefits from the other one?


Do what you like in your city, but if the evil of democracy further encroaches upon me I will resist !
But only "when there is 98% success probability." Eh?
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=205480



You know what? I'm not even a fan of cities the size of Seattle or bigger.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:17:13 PM EDT
Phil, I will not post private information on the web but yes my family sold their town {NY harbor area} in 1545, yes there is proof of sale exists.

Yes I do favor strict liability, which was what that thread was about verses limited liability.

You really do ned a education in COMMON LAW
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:45:58 PM EDT
I won't start in on your statement that my history books wriiten by criminals to make themselves look good, but of course you're assuming that what's in your history is 100% accurate and without spin or ommision?

How many settlers were living in what is now the United States in 1545?

I'll go back to your earlier statement of "in the early years of this country government did not exist, there was no mayor, no city council, no sheriff, no standing military" and repley with well no shit none of that existed because there weren't enough people to fill those roles let alone require it.

That which works for a dozen people will not work for close to 300 million.

20 years later the .gov came (The Spanish in Florida) and from what you are saying that was the end of Eden.

42 years after that the English were in Jamestown.

1619 local government starts to form and it must have been the end of days.

Hell the founding fathers weren't even born yet the fall of the Republic was already done.




Yes I do favor strict liability, which was what that thread was about verses limited liability.

You favored slavery for those without enough ready cash at hand.

I've parsed your linked site and I think I'll skip detailed reading.

Besides what good are his methods, rantings, and ravings when they can't keep him from being convicted? www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2000/00/p00_0022.htm That case does appear to be the owner of the site you linked.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:14:50 PM EDT
Why are you arguing against common sense and reason Phil ?

I mean really, what set me off was your comment concerning the BATFE and the manufacture of alcohol, if you havent figured out yet that the BATFE and government is not your friend nothing i say here will ever convince you.

Keep living in your dream world,


AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will bum,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:26:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:28:49 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
Why are you arguing against common sense and reason Phil ?

I mean really, what set me off was your comment concerning the BATFE and the manufacture of alcohol, if you havent figured out yet that the BATFE and government is not your friend nothing i say here will ever convince you.

Keep living in your dream world,


In my world we read and comprehend.

You wrote:

I can produce ethanol fuels bio-diesel etc but not without the ATF assualting the production facility.



I replied (in part)

WHY would the BATFE raid someone for only making Biodiesel? (I won't comment on the ethanol because I don't have the background knowledge of making it to judge whether you would be in violation of any part of the AorE in BATFE)


Now you reply that what set you off was a comment that I didn't even make, the comment I did make you NEVER even addressed, instead you went right into a complete anti .gov tirad blah blah pioneer spirit yada yada eden existed until the .gov showed up nevermind that .gov showed up for all intents immediately.


That Strat is why I think you need to loosen the tin foil a little bit now and again.

ETA, no where did I say the BATFE and the .gov are my friends.


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:37:06 PM EDT
sigh,

AMENDMENT XVIII

Passed by Congress December 18, 1917. Ratified January 16, 1919. Repealed by amendment 21.

Section 1.
After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

Section 2.
The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Section 3.
This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.



The issue of the whisky rebelion was settled at the very beginning of the U.S. where the ATF came in was over oil companies eliminating their competition, they funded prohibition and the busy-body ladies to get the 18th amendment passed, it was never about distilled spirits for consumption.

ofcourse your bullshit revisionist history won't agree but I dont really care, build a still and "they will come"
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:57:48 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
sigh,

ofcourse your bullshit revisionist history won't agree but I dont really care, build a still and "they will come"



What you call "bullshit revisionist history" seems tohave been written by those you can do what you can't seem to do today.

READ AND COMPREHEND Strat


You wrote:



I can produce ethanol fuels bio-diesel etc but not without the ATF assualting the production facility.




I replied in part:

WHY would the BATFE raid someone for only making Biodiesel? (I won't comment on the ethanol because I don't have the background knowledge of making it to judge whether you would be in violation of any part of the AorE in BATFE)


WTF does AMENDMENT XVIII have to do with Biodiesel?

Methyl alcohol is typically used for biodiesel as it's the easiest and is in a 5:1 oil to methanol ratio and if you want to make and use ethanol you can get a small fuel producer permit from the BATFE (form 5110.74) to produce and receive not more than 10,000 proof gallons of alcohol per year. Denature that ethanol and cover yourself.


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:06:14 PM EDT

Lyrics for Album: Essential Kris Kristofferson
"If you waste your time a-talkin' to the people who don't listen,
"To the things that you are sayin', who do you think's gonna hear.
"And if you should die explainin' how the things that they complain about,
"Are things they could be changin', who do you think's gonna care?"

There were other lonely singers in a world turned deaf and blind,
Who were crucified for what they tried to show.
And their voices have been scattered by the swirling winds of time.
'Cos the truth remains that no-one wants to know.

And you still can hear me singin' to the people who don't listen,
To the things that I am sayin', prayin' someone's gonna hear.
And I guess I'll die explaining how the things that they complain about,
Are things they could be changin', hopin' someone's gonna care.

I was born a lonely singer, and I'm bound to die the same,
But I've got to feed the hunger in my soul.
And if I never have a nickle, I won't ever die ashamed.
'Cos I don't believe that no-one wants to know

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:13:28 AM EDT
Ok when you try use song lyrics from a cocaine, pot, and alcohol abuser to counter logic reasoning and facts it's clear that you are yielding the field.

Thanks for playing.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:47:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Ok when you try use song lyrics from a cocaine, pot, and alcohol abuser to counter logic reasoning and facts it's clear that you are yielding the field.

Thanks for playing.






Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:51:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Ok when you try use song lyrics from a cocaine, pot, and alcohol abuser to counter logic reasoning and facts it's clear that you are yielding the field.

Thanks for playing.


lightsout.onestop.net/retardnow.jpg

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=12817

www.mydivadesigns.com/LightenUp.jpg



Yeah as I already said skippy


Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Thanks for playing.




Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:04:33 AM EDT
It been said earlier but I will explain one more time.

A constitutional republic is self government, it relies upon the character of the individual and uses law to protect the individual from the mob.

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

The current system has nothing to do with the constitutional republic based upon American common law, if you go into a WA court and bring up the constitution you can be held in contept of court, there is NO constitutional republic in existance today.

When people advocate tyranny and plunder and call those that fight against tyranny and plunder anti-government, then it is clear who's side they are on, I will continue to give the freedom side of the argument as long as I have the means to do so.


When Hitler came for the Jews... I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned.
— Pastor Martin Niemoller, Congressional Record, October 14, 1968, vol. 114, p. 31636.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:27:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
It been said earlier but I will explain one more time.

A constitutional republic is self government, it relies upon the character of the individual and uses law to protect the individual from the mob.

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

The current system has nothing to do with the constitutional republic based upon American common law, if you go into a WA court and bring up the constitution you can be held in contept of court, there is NO constitutional republic in existance today.

When people advocate tyranny and plunder and call those that fight against tyranny and plunder anti-government, then it is clear who's side they are on, I will continue to give the freedom side of the argument as long as I have the means to do so.


When Hitler came for the Jews... I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned.
— Pastor Martin Niemoller, Congressional Record, October 14, 1968, vol. 114, p. 31636.







In case you don't catch the point, that's you way out there in left field.

I started on this thread with a simple direct question to you of

WHY would the BATFE raid someone for only making Biodiesel?
and you've been wandering around in left field ever since. You've ranted about pioneer spirit and Eden on Earth, criminal historians, evil came as soon as the flag of government arrived (which was essentially at the very beginning), quoted lyrics from song lyrics from a cocaine, pot, and alcohol abuser, and now your current shot is a say that anyone who isn't 100% with you is against you?


You could have stopped all of this at the start by loosening your tinfoil hat and saying "I guess the BATFE wouldn't be likely to raid me for making ONLY biodiesel"

Instead you went wandering off into left field.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:02:56 AM EDT
I love a good discussion.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:04:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 9:12:06 AM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I love a good discussion.



Go make me a latte! (with 6 shots in it!)
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:14:33 AM EDT
WTF does Automatic Transmission Fluid have to do with biodiesel or the price of gas?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:27:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:


You could have stopped all of this at the start by loosening your tinfoil hat and saying "I guess the BATFE wouldn't be likely to raid me for making ONLY biodiesel"

Instead you went wandering off into left field.


There are none so blind as those that will not see,


I can produce ethanol fuels bio-diesel etc but not without the ATF assualting the production facility.


Ethanol is taxed and regulated by the ATF, if you produce bio-diesel for use on the roads you also have to send the fedcoats and WA state lots of money or they will definately come after you.

IT is the codes rules regulation taxes that give the state power through selective enforcement of who can produce fuels and who can not.

What you do not seem to understand is that I have already been there and done that with alternative fuels, equiptment manufacturing blah blah blah and on and on, if you knew anything about business you know that it is a competitive market, if you can not compete you will not last long, the state with it's codes, rules, regualtions, statutes, taxes, has the power to make any business uncompetitive, you simply can not compete against multi-million dollar corporations with control of state agencies.

dialogue is good even if you may not understand, other people do.

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evilminded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding."
— Justice Louis D. Brandeis dissenting,Olmstead v. United States


Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:49:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 9:53:29 AM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:


You could have stopped all of this at the start by loosening your tinfoil hat and saying "I guess the BATFE wouldn't be likely to raid me for making ONLY biodiesel"

Instead you went wandering off into left field.


There are none so blind as those that will not see, and what do you say about those who can't read and comprehend a simple damn question




WHY would the BATFE raid someone for only making Biodiesel? (I won't comment on the ethanol because I don't have the background knowledge of making it to judge whether you would be in violation of any part of the AorE in BATFE)



I can produce ethanol fuels bio-diesel etc but not without the ATF assualting the production facility.



Ethanol is taxed and regulated by the ATF, if you produce bio-diesel for use on the roads you also have to send the fedcoats and WA state lots of money or they will definately come after you.

There are plenty of people making biodiesel for their own use on the roads, so don't try to tell me that it's not possible to do.There is a process/form for small amount fuel processing

IT is the codes rules regulation taxes that give the state power through selective enforcement of who can produce fuels and who can not.

What you do not seem to understand is that I have already been there and done that with alternative fuels, equiptment manufacturing blah blah blah and on and on, if you knew anything about business you know that it is a competitive market, if you can not compete you will not last long, the state with it's codes, rules, regualtions, statutes, taxes, has the power to make any business uncompetitive, you simply can not compete against multi-million dollar corporations with control of state agencies.

Others are doing it, one of them is within a few miles of me, so it can be done. It seems to be a fact that you'd rather stand on your high horse than do what it takes to get the job done, and spare me that the job is other than producing your own fuel because THAT is where I started in on this thread, and that is what the job I speak of is. THAT is the job you said that you could not do "without the ATF assualting the production facility."



dialogue is good even if you may not understand, other people do.Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evilminded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding."
— Justice Louis D. Brandeis dissenting,Olmstead v. United States



Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:52:46 AM EDT
Geez...Comon guys. You're gonna get my post locked!
Hey...How about them Seahawks?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 9:56:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
Geez...Comon guys. You're gonna get my post locked!
Hey...How about them Seahawks?



It's not your post anymore, we've taken it and you can't have it back.



Seahawks?


BAH!

Bi­g Ten football is where it's at.

<------ See avatar.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:41:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 10:43:58 AM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

It's not your post anymore, we've taken it and you can't have it back.






You two clowns will need a LOT more work at this if you ever expect to make it big in the Bear pit.


I have met both of you, and the funny thing is, you are both alot more alike than you think...your cammo just seems to be for a different enviroment.


Now carry on, and may the best man come out alive!
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

It's not your post anymore, we've taken it and you can't have it back.






You two clowns will need a LOT more work at this if you ever expect to make it big in the Bear pit.


I have met both of you, and the funny thing is, you are both alot more alike than you think...your cammo just seems to be for a different enviroment.



The funnier thing is that we've met each other, I just don't know if Strat knows or recalls it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 2:28:05 PM EDT
Hijacking threads is bad............Mkay?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 2:38:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gibby:
Hijacking threads is bad............Mkay?
img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/gibbyjr5/mrmac.jpg



So you want to alk about government drug policies do you ?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:05:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Gibby:
Hijacking threads is bad............Mkay?
img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/gibbyjr5/mrmac.jpg



So you want to alk about government drug policies do you ?



Not with you I don't! You would debate circles around me!



Remember, I like small words. Big words make my head hurt.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:23:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gibby:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Gibby:
Hijacking threads is bad............Mkay?
img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/gibbyjr5/mrmac.jpg



So you want to alk about government drug policies do you ?



Not with you I don't! You would debate circles around me!



Remember, I like small words. Big words make my head hurt.



So as long as I use small words like extradictionary you will still play right ?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:17:07 PM EDT
dammit, when did the flame war stop? I was enjoying myself, it was like watching a soap opera, only the people cheating on each other were two highly armed men....

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