Is it legal in NY to do the pistol grip conversion on a Saiga 12?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, No. I went through this a few months back....

Quoted: I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, No. I went through this a few months back....

+1


no, its not legal....unfortunately.

a thumbhole stock is as close as you can come...  and even that's out if the 'new' NYS AWB gets pushed through... as it specifically bans thumbhole stocks on semi-auto shotguns.


edit for typo.... shotguns, not shitguns

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Quoted: a thumbhole stock is as close as you can come...  and even that's out if the 'new' NYS AWB gets pushed through... as it specifically bans thumbhole stocks on semi-auto shotguns. humbhole http://www.globaltrades.com/ak_stocks/110-s.jpg

i would have to say yes... otherwise why would they add the word "thumbhole" to the new ban? clearly they accept that it's a loophole and want to close it.

2 caveats:

1: just because it's legal per the letter of the law, doesn't mean you won't get hassled

2: that stock is ooooooggglllyyy!... try one of these ;)

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Quoted: that stock is ooooooggglllyyy!... try one of these ;) ultimak.com/products/choatbig.jpg

Is that a Choate Stock? I assume I would still have to do the conversion and just use this stock.

yes and yes.

Speaking of Saiga's in no-fun states, where can you get furniture like this:






Seems alot better looking than the stuff it comes with from the factory, looks classy like a Browning Auto-5.

that looks like BattleRifleG3's work... you can find him at forum.saiga-12.com

Awesome, I was looking around for where those where from. Now to find a Saiga 12, a brake and that furniture.

Any recommendations on brakes that actually work for this or are they not needed?

http://content.imagesocket.com/images/saiga2862d76.JPG

ok so you have one with wood furn so it looks classy and its compliant..but yet got a 10 rounder in it?

kinda pointless, being you have to have it blocked to 5rnds or whatever correct?  Why not stick with the factory capacity mags.  Is that mag blocked to 5 or?

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; <--doesn't apply, not fixed
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine <-- applies, but no mention of capacity- defaults to the hi-cap limit of 10

Under section e:iii. it seems that if you stick to the stock 5 round magazine, then having a "pistol grip," and "telescoping stock," with the Saiga 12 ga should be legit.

Btw. look at e:ii. the laws says that the SA rifle (post ban w/cool features) CANNOT ACCEPT a mag that holds more than 5 rounds.

To my understanding of the English language make sure your five round magazine can't hold more than 5 rounds. (shouldn't be too hard)

Nothing illegal in the Saiga being able to accept the 8 or 10 round magazines, just don't do it in NYS with the "pistol grip" and telescoping/folding stock on.

(But if the trigger group is moved around for the pistol grip, maybe too much of a pain to go back...)

Comments?


22. An "assault weapon" means:

(a) blah blah blah

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics:
         (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
         (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
         (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
         (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

(c) blah blah blah

(d) blah blah and even more blah

(e) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that
        (a) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide-action;
(b) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
(c) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof, specified in appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was manufactured on October 1, 1993. The mere fact that a weapon is not listed in appendix A shall not be construed to me an that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
(v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994.

Quoted: ...Btw. look at e:ii. the laws says that the SA rifle (post ban w/cool features) CANNOT ACCEPT a mag that holds more than 5 rounds. To my understanding of the English language make sure your five round magazine can't hold more than 5 rounds. (shouldn't be too hard) ...Comments?

unfortunately, it can accept a higher cap mag, even if you don't have one.
so, thumbhole is as evil as it can get... no seperate pistol grip, period.

I like your "thumbhole" stock. Stick my whole arm through that "thumbhole". he
From 265.22.B.2 "a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" (naughty, naughty).

The grip does protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, but I don't remember ever seeing a "pistol grip" with big pieces of plastic extending off of it. (Any legal definitions of a pistol grip out there?)

Ah I think you miss the point I'm trying to elucidate.

The law specifically restricts A.W. designation on SA rifles that cannot accept anything higher than 5 rounds mags.

The last major sentence sums up my conclusion for shotguns with pistol grips, nothing about SA rifles, except as an example of linguistic gymnastics.

Look at the language for the shotgun. There's nothing there about restricting the ability to accept >5 round mags. It's saying that you can't use anything larger than a 5 round mag.

Comments???

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: ...Btw. look at e:ii. the laws says that the SA rifle (post ban w/cool features) CANNOT ACCEPT a mag that holds more than 5 rounds. To my understanding of the English language make sure your five round magazine can't hold more than 5 rounds. (shouldn't be too hard) ...Comments? unfortunately, it can accept a higher cap mag, even if you don't have one. so, thumbhole is as evil as it can get... no seperate pistol grip, period.

I think I would still stick to the thumbhole stock just to be on the safer side. Once the conversion is done it will be done. If/when I move out of NY I can always buy a new stock and pistol grip and put them on in 10 minutes. I can also then use the evil 10 round mags if I wanted.

Quoted: Speaking of Saiga's in no-fun states, where can you get furniture like this: content.imagesocket.com/images/saiga2862d76.JPG content.imagesocket.com/images/saiga286448d.JPG Seems alot better looking than the stuff it comes with from the factory, looks classy like a Browning Auto-5.

That is a fine looking weapon.