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Posted: 12/22/2011 12:32:48 PM EDT
I have been thinking (and I am sure I am not the only one) about not just the status of our US economy, but that of around the world. Combine what is happening politically lately, what the FED is doing to the US dollar and the overwhelming amount of sheeple out there, I am worried about the future. I feel that something has to snap financially at some point. Hopefully I am wrong, but if I am not, I want to get our of Dodge. If/when something does 'snap', at least for a while it will be mad chaos. I live about 80 miles out of the metro, but that is not far enough for me. I have family out in the Colorado mountains, pretty well prepared. We have already talked. I just need to get there. Trick would be getting to them. Ideally, being able to read what is happening and leaving before the bubble bursts would be great, but the burst could happen over-night. It takes about 36 hours to get to my family out west. Give about 12 hours to pack and leave, and it is too late already. I want to start to build some sort of armored vehicle to get me and my family out west. Money is a big factor, I don't have much. I am also not going to sink every dime into it. It will have to be basically my hobby money.

Objectives:
Room for 8 occupants plus gear
Fuel enough for the trip out without having to re-fuel
Small arms proof or highly resistant. I am not stopping at the local gang checkpoint to surrender my wife and gas and then be killed. I will drive by and give them the finger.
Off road capable. could also be winter time: Snow storms
Highway speeds or close to it

Resources:
Brother owns/ops metal fab shop
I am very handy in the metal shop plus mechanics and mechanical engineering
Buddy builds race cars (dirt track) from scratch

Opinions:
Start out fresh or build off production vehicle. Best production vehicle? Old Class A/B truck-old mechanicals are cheap. Kind of large, but has the range and plenty of space; armor only occupant/engine area? leave cargo unprotected to save $$?
Try to find an APC. How expensive are they? Low budget build here.
Steel armor or Fiberglass panels
Not stopping for flat tires. Anyone ever experiment with any kind of homemade run-flat or solid tire?
I am looking for a single use vehicle. Get me there. That is all it would ever be used for.
May be leaving when things are still going down hill. Don't want too much attention from LEOs.
Small older bus?

Any other thoughts are welcome.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 1:12:02 PM EDT
Doubtful you'd make it that far, may as well move there now. Think about how crazy the roads are during rush hour or a holiday weekend. During an economic/societal collapse, I would think the traffic situation would be equal or worse.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 3:36:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2011 3:37:01 PM EDT by Rat_Patrol]
Originally Posted By Weasel_Master:
Doubtful you'd make it that far, may as well move there now. Think about how crazy the roads are during rush hour or a holiday weekend. During an economic/societal collapse, I would think the traffic situation would be equal or worse.


That is true, but moving now it not possible. My greatest hope is that we can see it going down and get out a few days before everybody else.

Edit: How dare they put a Chevy ad in my post.....
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 4:48:40 PM EDT
Well, there are the details of how out of the way you might travel. Google Maps to Denver are from Metro is about 900 miles. SO, considering your adding weight to a vehicle and other things impact your gas mileage. Assuming that you probably will need 150 gallons of gas...That alone weights 1200 #. You have pipe dream! You might think you will be smarter then the average bear, but that is never the case. Man you need really rethink you plans!
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 4:50:35 PM EDT
Small arms proof or highly resistant-Room for 8 occupants plus gear- Fuel enough for the trip out without having to re-fuel......I would think your biggest hurdle will be the weight.......sounds like a good thing if you can make it work.....cool project

ramblinoak
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 5:48:18 PM EDT
Start with something like this.. add on as needed.

That is what I am doing. :)
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 5:51:22 PM EDT
Well...if it had to be done...

...I would say something like one of those Metro Mobility buses with its undercarriage replaced by something like a lift kit. Then an A-Team style armoring job to the hull...

If you ask me though, in the situation you're describing, you don't want anything too conspicuous. That only makes you target #1. A well-protected vehicle and everything else is fine, but you pile enough sh!t in front of it, eventually you're going to be stopped.

If I absolutely had to get out, I've been exploring abandoned towns/buildings deep in certain rural areas for possible rotating hideouts. But there's always the question of getting there. The alternative I think would work better is to have a mutual aid network in or near your AO. Think about it. The best way to fight roving gangs of badguys is to have your own gang.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 5:56:42 PM EDT
I always find these discussions to be fascinating, but I always keep coming back to the same conclusion every time, the one I gave earlier.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 6:13:11 PM EDT
I don't think a battle tank could make it in that situation.... Perhaps, two could. But you'd be swarmed.
Better to be inconspicuous, make 'em think you're not worth attacking. Take two vehicles.
While they're focused on one; flank 'em with the other.
900 miles - One way or another, you're gonna find yourself in a fight.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 6:37:58 PM EDT
One more consideration.

Have you considered the extremely poor shelf life of modern fuels?

Buying enough to get you to CO and having it go to shit a few months later would suck.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 7:00:35 PM EDT
I'd be looking at a Suburban type vehicle. Personally, I believe in low profile vs. heavy armored vehicle.

Honda Element = family trying to escape

APC = possible hostile target to criminals and LE/Military alike.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 7:22:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2011 7:22:45 PM EDT by tusmile]
When the vehicle is complete,...I call shotgun...I will be the cook!
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 10:09:31 PM EDT
So y'all are sayin' I'd be just a bit obvious...



Link Posted: 12/23/2011 2:39:33 AM EDT
If I had to go a long way I'd travel light and go on a dual sport motorcycle. You could go off road, through ditches, through stalled traffic. Sips gas and while everyone else is trapped in a parking lot on 35 or 94, you just go right up the shoulder or in between the other vehicles. Hope to get my own this spring/summer.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:19:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2011 4:20:45 AM EDT by Talyn]
Production Class

Knight XV plus add a off-road trailer to it to haul extra fuel.

Knight XV

Off-road trailers - one example

Adventure Trailers

If you have the coin.

My .02
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 5:13:00 AM EDT
What about 2 pickups equipped with railroad wheels? You can usually get extra fuel tanks for trucks and railroad wheels may let you circumvent roads that are more likely to be blocked. Certainly gives you another option at any rate. Two vehicles have a better chance to make it than one. Still, I think hoping to carry all the fuel needed for the trip is a bit ambitious. If you choose wisely, one fill up along the way will be enough. My Suburban with 40 gallon tank can do more than 600 miles of highway driving. If I were prepared with a couple 5 gallon gas cans, I could almost make it to CO w/o stopping but weight really does become an issue. Guns, ammo, gas, and people all weigh quite a bit relative to their cargo volume.

I don't know how many roadblocks would be in place that quickly after the SHTF. I'd guess that things would still be pretty chaotic for a week or two until people got organized enough to start barricading their small towns in and so on.

Come to think of it, I once met a guy with a pickup that had a fuel tank in the bed, right behind the cab. He ran a line from it to the main tank and said he could get some crazy amount of miles out of the rig if he had to, I want to say 1500 or 2000. Do something like that with a couple extended cab pickups and you could get everyone there. Go light on the armor to save weight - maybe the engine compartment and doors, something like that.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 6:37:45 AM EDT
A couple things I will add:

Fuel range, shelf life, etc: Propane. I thought about it last night in bed, debating larger diesel with a few hundred gallons on hand (think class A/B truck) but the fuel would eventually go bad. This will be sitting around until hopefully never needed.

Propane solves all problems. We actually have some old company trucks we have bought that are converted. We have a 1 ton pickup with a V-10 that has enough fuel in it to pull a good trailer load about 2000 miles when fully fueled. Call bull if you want, we have done it. Fun thing with propane: you can lean out the fuel mixture like an airplane engine. Hard on the engine, but you can pull a few more MPGs out of it. Also, propane NEVER goes bad. It can sit in the ready. Carbs don't gum up. I have never been worried about not hauling enough fuel. Loaded Semi trucks go that far all the time. (DO NOT DRIVE A SEMI WITH TRAILER DURING SHTF SITUATIONS: MAJOR TARGET!)

The capacity of eight doesn't mean those 7 not driving have to be comfortable!

Defiantly need something lower profile. Thinking something like old suburban. Nice & cheap and boxy so I can take the interior panels out and replace with some light armor. May not stop AP 5.56 rounds, but it should be able to stop FMJ 7.62x39 from an AK. The cost is about $1000 per 4x8 foot sheet, but you can get fairly light fiberglass armor panels. Thinking about trying to make my own. Looking at the process... need to research the resin. I don't think what I have on hand will work.

Two smaller vehicles may be a better option. I would like to make rifle holes in places between the armor, to shoot back if needed. I am not planning on stockpiling anymore ammo/weapons that I think it might take me to get there. All weapons and ammo are waiting for me at destination. Problem with a regular nice looking suv or pickup: easy target. Gangs will be going after all gas and supplies that come down thier road. A ford explorer with a family looks like an easy target of gas, supplies and my wife.

The idea is that I am vigilant enough to see it falling, and we leave. It probably should be something plain enough so if it ends up being a false alarm, besides a PISSED OFF WIFE, no harm done. The shit will probably happen while we are on route. Hopefully.

About military truck: would you not look like National Guard if you had the right paint? LEOs may leave you alone, gangs may pick out a lone military truck as a nice prize, though. Is it legal to drive old military trucks just down the road for no apparent reason???
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 6:51:35 AM EDT
Armored up vehicles are crazy exensive. Think about a different tactic versus "withstand incoming enemy fire" or just buy an armored car and a shitload of jerry cans!!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 7:29:06 AM EDT
On the run flat tires...

There is a few companies that "foam" filled tires that makes them impervious to nails and such. they are typically for skidloaders and such but i am sure you could rig something like it for a large vehicle. Honestly your best bet is going to be a duece and a half. the whole laying low idea just will not cut it in SHTF, the gangs will plan on hitting everyone - be it a honda civic, or a duece and a half. at least with a duece you have the intidmidation factor, as well as the load capacity to armor the heck out of it compared to say... a suburban.

But there is one point... Your goal is highly unrealistic in my opinion based on your budget. IF you want a vehicle to fit your need... Its going to cost... A Lot....

I would say the most affordable route is going to be 2 1/2 ton truck, and use 50 gallon oil tanks in the bed of it to store diesel fuel... And have a hand crank to pump from one tank to the next... or have a neato electric pump run from a switch in the cab to pump it in for ya!

and then some sort of steel plating on the outside... the other problem is that this f'er is going to be HEAVY... I have read of people buying 5 ton trucks for a similar prices compared to the 2 1/2... i would assume they would have a much higher payload...

Dual winches are a necessity...
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 9:56:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
A couple things I will add:

Fuel range, shelf life, etc: Propane. I thought about it last night in bed, debating larger diesel with a few hundred gallons on hand (think class A/B truck) but the fuel would eventually go bad. This will be sitting around until hopefully never needed.

Propane solves all problems. We actually have some old company trucks we have bought that are converted. We have a 1 ton pickup with a V-10 that has enough fuel in it to pull a good trailer load about 2000 miles when fully fueled. Call bull if you want, we have done it. Fun thing with propane: you can lean out the fuel mixture like an airplane engine. Hard on the engine, but you can pull a few more MPGs out of it. Also, propane NEVER goes bad. It can sit in the ready. Carbs don't gum up. I have never been worried about not hauling enough fuel. Loaded Semi trucks go that far all the time. (DO NOT DRIVE A SEMI WITH TRAILER DURING SHTF SITUATIONS: MAJOR TARGET!)

The capacity of eight doesn't mean those 7 not driving have to be comfortable!

Defiantly need something lower profile. Thinking something like old suburban. Nice & cheap and boxy so I can take the interior panels out and replace with some light armor. May not stop AP 5.56 rounds, but it should be able to stop FMJ 7.62x39 from an AK. The cost is about $1000 per 4x8 foot sheet, but you can get fairly light fiberglass armor panels. Thinking about trying to make my own. Looking at the process... need to research the resin. I don't think what I have on hand will work.

Two smaller vehicles may be a better option. I would like to make rifle holes in places between the armor, to shoot back if needed. I am not planning on stockpiling anymore ammo/weapons that I think it might take me to get there. All weapons and ammo are waiting for me at destination. Problem with a regular nice looking suv or pickup: easy target. Gangs will be going after all gas and supplies that come down thier road. A ford explorer with a family looks like an easy target of gas, supplies and my wife.

The idea is that I am vigilant enough to see it falling, and we leave. It probably should be something plain enough so if it ends up being a false alarm, besides a PISSED OFF WIFE, no harm done. The shit will probably happen while we are on route. Hopefully.

About military truck: would you not look like National Guard if you had the right paint? LEOs may leave you alone, gangs may pick out a lone military truck as a nice prize, though. Is it legal to drive old military trucks just down the road for no apparent reason???


I'm seeing some gaps here. These are just points, please do not take offense.

1. If you're getting the idea that defecation is going to impact oscillation, chances are I, and a pile of others are too, and we're getting out of dodge... Now! I understand the thought that you and you alone would see it coming and could magically whisk your family away to the mountains just before the jaws of SHTF close, I really do and see it in people all the time. I hate to be the one to tell you this: It's not going to happen. It's just not. No matter how vigilant you are, or think you are, when you get the notion that things are going to go bad, others are too, and when you bug out, they're going to be right there on the road with you.

2. I had a chuckle at this quote: The shit will probably happen while we are on route. Hopefully.

Whaaa????? Excuse my English, but FUCK THAT SHIT! If things start kicking up and you're even three quarters of the way to Colorado, you're still right around 250 miles from your destination. That seriously might as well be on the moon as far as you're going to be concerned. In the highly unlikely event that one moment we're all sipping our tea, the next "OMFG SHTF!" the roads will be a parking lot within seconds, packed with every other person trying to get their family out of harm's way, with you smack dab in the middle. Now you're a stranger in a strange land and you have no idea what you're going to do.

You're 80 or so miles outside the Metro. That's a damn good buffer unless you're living in St. Cloud, Mankato, or Rochester. You, I'm assuming here, know your locals, have friends there, and are familiar with how to get around/with the area? I'd much rather try to defend a house, buildings, etc than defend myself in a car or truck that bullets zip through no problem. Houses are better cover and concealment than cars/trucks, which are nothing more than mobile concealment.

3. If you're as far as you are outside a major metropolitan area, ESPECIALLY the Twin Cities, you'd be *WAY* better off waiting a couple weeks or month or two before setting out. Easily 95% of anyone that might try to do something to you would have already long since froze, starved, or dessicated. I live in the heart of Minneapolis. Seriously, four blocks South of the Metrodome, and the only place I'd rather not be, other than here in the Phillips Neighborhood, would be on the road. At least here, I have a housefull of supplies I can draw upon, about fifteen friends, four brothers, and know the area like the inside of my mouth.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 11:13:38 AM EDT
I'm staying here as all you leave, this place is mine. I'd say winter will make it quite peacefull here. Oh you need some food and water, just knock on the door. As for SHTF it happens all over the world every day and each man usually expends 0 to rounds, so save your money for food and water and don't be afraid to knock.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 1:18:43 PM EDT
you want to carry 8 people???? No. too many mouths to feed, too much weight and gear, too many people to expose you or blow your cover and screw something up. unless you have a wife, yourself and 6 kids, no. its every man for himself at this point.

If i needed to make a bug out vehicle- 3/4 ton- 1 ton pickup, 4 wheel drive with a topper. additional fuel tank in the bed, yet leaving enough room for gear. the topper will keep the gear more secure and dry. no kids = just a regular cab truck. kids = extended cab or crew cab.

if someone is lighting up your vehicle with a machine gun, your tires are the least of your worry. you can still drive a ways with flat tires, long enough to get out of the situation and obtain a new vehicle. armor isnt practical and doesnt guaranty shit.

its a lot easier to hide a pickup than a deuce and a half. pickups use far less fuel.



by that point though, the highways will be a mess or locked down with check points, the "back roads" will be no secret, if i couldnt make it to my hunting land way north i would just hunker down in the city and fight it out.

yes, i learned all of this from TV and Video Games
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 1:59:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2011 2:02:17 PM EDT by GrandForks]
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:

You're 80 or so miles outside the Metro. That's a damn good buffer unless you're living in St. Cloud, Mankato, or Rochester. You, I'm assuming here, know your locals, have friends there, and are familiar with how to get around/with the area?



Back to my point from earlier. When this topic comes up, this is ALWAYS where I end up. Like F250 said, hunker down in the city and fight it out.

Edit: I live in Robbinsdale and know some other "like-minded" people here in town and in neighboring towns. It's all about the network and mutual support. Eventually, that's what's going to rebuild society (depending on your SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario)
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 2:26:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GrandForks:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:

You're 80 or so miles outside the Metro. That's a damn good buffer unless you're living in St. Cloud, Mankato, or Rochester. You, I'm assuming here, know your locals, have friends there, and are familiar with how to get around/with the area?



Back to my point from earlier. When this topic comes up, this is ALWAYS where I end up. Like F250 said, hunker down in the city and fight it out.

Edit: I live in Robbinsdale and know some other "like-minded" people here in town and in neighboring towns. It's all about the network and mutual support. Eventually, that's what's going to rebuild society (depending on your SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario)


Big problem with my area is sustainable natural animal food supply: not even close. I live in a lib-tard self minded just-smart-enough-to-be-dangerous area. We are rural, but this area is old and significantly populated. Nothing but farm land, and nowhere near enough sustainable animal food to go around. Fish would be the only thing that may make it work. The ability of the majority of these people to 'band together' would depend of about 25% of key neighbors not being around. I would REALLY like to un-ass the area.

I really think a lightly armored SUV or two and try to leave early is key. Try to make it out before things go bad is a far cry better than after.

80 miles enough? Really? with the population in the city needing to spread out to find food, anywhere within a tank of gas to a heavily populated area is too close. If SHTF, 3 days food. That is it, then people will panic and leave to look for food. The percentage of people in a heavily populated metro area that have food stockpiles more than a week in the cupboards must be very low.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 3:13:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2011 3:15:40 PM EDT by J75player]
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By GrandForks:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:

You're 80 or so miles outside the Metro. That's a damn good buffer unless you're living in St. Cloud, Mankato, or Rochester. You, I'm assuming here, know your locals, have friends there, and are familiar with how to get around/with the area?



Back to my point from earlier. When this topic comes up, this is ALWAYS where I end up. Like F250 said, hunker down in the city and fight it out.

Edit: I live in Robbinsdale and know some other "like-minded" people here in town and in neighboring towns. It's all about the network and mutual support. Eventually, that's what's going to rebuild society (depending on your SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario)


Big problem with my area is sustainable natural animal food supply: not even close. I live in a lib-tard self minded just-smart-enough-to-be-dangerous area. We are rural, but this area is old and significantly populated. Nothing but farm land, and nowhere near enough sustainable animal food to go around. Fish would be the only thing that may make it work. The ability of the majority of these people to 'band together' would depend of about 25% of key neighbors not being around. I would REALLY like to un-ass the area.

I really think a lightly armored SUV or two and try to leave early is key. Try to make it out before things go bad is a far cry better than after.

80 miles enough? Really? with the population in the city needing to spread out to find food, anywhere within a tank of gas to a heavily populated area is too close. If SHTF, 3 days food. That is it, then people will panic and leave to look for food. The percentage of people in a heavily populated metro area that have food stockpiles more than a week in the cupboards must be very low.


people always say things like this, but i really dont think it will happen. take the average city guy and put him in an unfamiliar town and he will be lucky to find a grocery store, let alone asking him to extract food from his enviroment.
alot of people in the country dont even know how to turn an animal into food. even still, you cant take a guy thats never hunted before, send him into the woods and expect him to come out with anything. even with the number of people in MN that fish, i would bet that most are recreational fisherman and wouldnt be able to put a meaningfull amount of food on the table.
no, i'm betting that in a full TOTWAWKI situation, the population of this state will drop significantly in the first month.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 3:27:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J75player:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By GrandForks:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:

You're 80 or so miles outside the Metro. That's a damn good buffer unless you're living in St. Cloud, Mankato, or Rochester. You, I'm assuming here, know your locals, have friends there, and are familiar with how to get around/with the area?



Back to my point from earlier. When this topic comes up, this is ALWAYS where I end up. Like F250 said, hunker down in the city and fight it out.

Edit: I live in Robbinsdale and know some other "like-minded" people here in town and in neighboring towns. It's all about the network and mutual support. Eventually, that's what's going to rebuild society (depending on your SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario)


Big problem with my area is sustainable natural animal food supply: not even close. I live in a lib-tard self minded just-smart-enough-to-be-dangerous area. We are rural, but this area is old and significantly populated. Nothing but farm land, and nowhere near enough sustainable animal food to go around. Fish would be the only thing that may make it work. The ability of the majority of these people to 'band together' would depend of about 25% of key neighbors not being around. I would REALLY like to un-ass the area.

I really think a lightly armored SUV or two and try to leave early is key. Try to make it out before things go bad is a far cry better than after.

80 miles enough? Really? with the population in the city needing to spread out to find food, anywhere within a tank of gas to a heavily populated area is too close. If SHTF, 3 days food. That is it, then people will panic and leave to look for food. The percentage of people in a heavily populated metro area that have food stockpiles more than a week in the cupboards must be very low.


people always say things like this, but i really dont think it will happen. take the average city guy and put him in an unfamiliar town and he will be lucky to find a grocery store, let alone asking him to extract food from his enviroment.
alot of people in the country dont even know how to turn an animal into food. even still, you cant take a guy thats never hunted before, send him into the woods and expect him to come out with anything. even with the number of people in MN that fish, i would bet that most are recreational fisherman and wouldnt be able to put a meaningfull amount of food on the table.
no, i'm betting that in a full TOTWAWKI situation, the population of this state will drop significantly in the first month.


The starving people from day 4-29 will be doing ANYTHING they can as they and their families starve to try to survive. This is the period that will be the most critical. Bug out or get ready to actively defend you and yours are the only two option. I do agree that the population will sharply fall in a SHTF scenario.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 3:34:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2011 3:35:24 PM EDT by J75player]
if I were you and needed to execute your situation...
I would move away from Heavy armor to being more agile and having more options for alternate routs.

I would get two 3/4ton diesel crew cab trucks. 6"lift and 35's for both. extra fuel tank in the box with a cover for the rest of it.
Monster (or similar brand) bumpers front and rear.
weld steel plate in the engine compartment, around fuel tank, tanny and oil pan. I would then cover the inside of the door panels with thick aluminum plate
backed up with old Kevlar vests off Ebay. should help with weight but still let you take a decent amount of fire.
sloped aluminum plate backed up with Kevlar across the windshield with a camera/monitor system for driving.

Idea is to be light enough to still go offroad, but have enough armor to stand up to a few seconds worth of fire while you get out of range.
use roads when you can, but be fully capable of going cross country to avoid trouble.
if you were so inclined, adding a high CC 4wheeler would allow you to use it as a scout. keeping your main vehicles out of sight
if it should happen to find trouble.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 3:53:23 PM EDT
The more I think about the situation you propose, the more I think you would get a much better return on your dollar by preparing to "bug in". You know your local area and local people. You could store food and reinforce your house. You would have a larger network of people to work with. If you have local agriculture, the land will provide enough food, just not in 3 days. There is always hunting and gathering to supplement your food stores. I live in a town house and wouldn't even consider trying to make the 120 mile trip to my dad's. If there are roving gangs/widespread violence/unrest/disorder you can be assured the national guard will be responding within 24 hours. There will be road blocks and check points. There will probably be martial law and curfews. If you leave your home armed you will likely be in violation of some part of the martial law. Look into what happened with hurricane Katrina and that is what you could expect to come with lawlessness and disorder. Bug in, lay low and don't draw attention to yourself.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:00:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J75player:
if I were you and needed to execute your situation...
I would move away from Heavy armor to being more agile and having more options for alternate routs.

I would get two 3/4ton diesel crew cab trucks. 6"lift and 35's for both. extra fuel tank in the box with a cover for the rest of it.
Monster (or similar brand) bumpers front and rear.
weld steel plate in the engine compartment, around fuel tank, tanny and oil pan. I would then cover the inside of the door panels with thick aluminum plate
backed up with old Kevlar vests off Ebay
. should help with weight but still let you take a decent amount of fire.
sloped aluminum plate backed up with Kevlar across the windshield with a camera/monitor system for driving.

Idea is to be light enough to still go offroad, but have enough armor to stand up to a few seconds worth of fire while you get out of range.
use roads when you can, but be fully capable of going cross country to avoid trouble.
if you were so inclined, adding a high CC 4wheeler would allow you to use it as a scout. keeping your main vehicles out of sight
if it should happen to find trouble.


FWIW 3/4" aluminum plate will stop 5.56, but not 7.62 nato.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:01:48 PM EDT
Not that phone books will be all that popular during a SHTF situation, but, they provide excellent protection for small arms (handgun, light rifle) loads.

This was covered at least twice on Mythbusters as well as other "lets blow shit up" shows.

As far as a used "battle vehicle", do you plan to have it laying around while you wait for the world to end or are you actually going to drive it to work each day?

Be aware, if you bumper is too high for a passenger licensed vehicle, you can and will get pulled over.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:04:23 PM EDT
you can bet your ass when the SHTF, im driving my F350 through the front doors at walmart, parking between the food and ammo section, and double tapping anyone thats between those items and my truck
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:42:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
you can bet your ass when the SHTF, im driving my F350 through the front doors at walmart, parking between the food and ammo section, and double tapping anyone thats between those items and my truck


Would that be over or thru the 10" concrete pillars protecting the front doors at most modern big box retailers.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 5:08:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
I really think a lightly armored SUV or two and try to leave early is key. Try to make it out before things go bad is a far cry better than after.

80 miles enough? Really? with the population in the city needing to spread out to find food, anywhere within a tank of gas to a heavily populated area is too close. If SHTF, 3 days food. That is it, then people will panic and leave to look for food. The percentage of people in a heavily populated metro area that have food stockpiles more than a week in the cupboards must be very low.


To the first part, I say good luck with that, but you're deluding yourself if you think that you're somehow more connected to everyone else and can escape before everyone else starts to go. If getting the heck out of there is that important to you, you should probably unass the area now.

Yup, 80 miles from the cities might as well be Doha Qatar. Ever see what happens when you've got a bucketfull of crabs and one starts to get out? I'll tell you: All the others will drag his ass right back in. Those that try to leave will be so busy preying on each other that your odds of not being screwed with increase exponentially.

Also on that note, when things get nasty, where do people want to go most? Someplace familiar. The vast majority will stay right where they are until it's too late for them to do otherwise. I live in the hood. If the SHTF tomorrow, the ENTIRE neighborhood would be plumb out of grub a week afterwards, and I mean EVERYTHING EDIBLE would be gone. And yes, that includes the pets. People aren't going to get far on empty stomachs and without water. The roads will be packed parking lots, so if they're going to go eighty miles, they're going to do it on foot.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 5:17:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
you can bet your ass when the SHTF, im driving my F350 through the front doors at walmart, parking between the food and ammo section, and double tapping anyone thats between those items and my truck


Do some intel-gathering first.

I'll bet you'd be walking in just like everyone else, probably taking fire. Cement filled steel poles that can stop a semi would make mockery of your truck, and after you started shooting, well, if you go starting trouble like that, trouble would find you.

It only takes one bullet to end your little adventure.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 5:38:16 PM EDT
There are some good shots of a SHTF bug-out vehicle starting at 0:45 in this training documentary...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_I4WgBfETc
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 6:09:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
you can bet your ass when the SHTF, im driving my F350 through the front doors at walmart, parking between the food and ammo section, and double tapping anyone thats between those items and my truck


Do some intel-gathering first.

I'll bet you'd be walking in just like everyone else, probably taking fire. Cement filled steel poles that can stop a semi would make mockery of your truck, and after you started shooting, well, if you go starting trouble like that, trouble would find you.

It only takes one bullet to end your little adventure.



of course the walls just to the side of those is simple plywood and a brick veneer.
seen several CARS that have crashed right through big box store walls.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 6:57:28 PM EDT
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside


Outside


There is still lots of work to do.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 7:42:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 10:12:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8xqnTSKWTWs/TuU_jQWzupI/AAAAAAAABxA/ZV7l0liV1xQ/s800/CJM_1221s.jpg

Outside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4D_fxbkZcZM/Tr24YQzfw5I/AAAAAAAABtQ/BCnxDo4XNRc/s800/CJM_1858s.jpg

There is still lots of work to do.


Link Posted: 12/24/2011 11:53:40 AM EDT
Not to mention bulletts go through vehicles like butter. If and if, one X51 any where near the door and your done. Any motor traffic with things full of interest won't make it past city limits.
Link Posted: 12/24/2011 6:12:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J75player:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
you can bet your ass when the SHTF, im driving my F350 through the front doors at walmart, parking between the food and ammo section, and double tapping anyone thats between those items and my truck


Do some intel-gathering first.

I'll bet you'd be walking in just like everyone else, probably taking fire. Cement filled steel poles that can stop a semi would make mockery of your truck, and after you started shooting, well, if you go starting trouble like that, trouble would find you.

It only takes one bullet to end your little adventure.



of course the walls just to the side of those is simple plywood and a brick veneer.
seen several CARS that have crashed right through big box store walls.


I dunno. I was at the Wally-World over on 494 and a little East of Portland today and thought of this very post.

They've got the poles along the entire front of the store.

The side would probably be a different story altogether, but I don't think a newer vehicle would be drivable after an impact with one of those walls. You might get through, but you're walking away... Maybe.
Link Posted: 12/24/2011 6:15:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8xqnTSKWTWs/TuU_jQWzupI/AAAAAAAABxA/ZV7l0liV1xQ/s800/CJM_1221s.jpg

Outside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4D_fxbkZcZM/Tr24YQzfw5I/AAAAAAAABtQ/BCnxDo4XNRc/s800/CJM_1858s.jpg

There is still lots of work to do.


Question for you: Have you put thought into investing in #3 fuel oil?

I hear that if you have a heater of some kind that runs on it, you can justify buying a barrel or two.

In a post SHTF scenario, I don't think there's going to be many police out there looking to see if your fuel's red tinted, and two barrels of fuel oil will get you a *LONG* ways.
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 11:21:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8xqnTSKWTWs/TuU_jQWzupI/AAAAAAAABxA/ZV7l0liV1xQ/s800/CJM_1221s.jpg

Outside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4D_fxbkZcZM/Tr24YQzfw5I/AAAAAAAABtQ/BCnxDo4XNRc/s800/CJM_1858s.jpg

There is still lots of work to do.


Question for you: Have you put thought into investing in #3 fuel oil?

I hear that if you have a heater of some kind that runs on it, you can justify buying a barrel or two.

In a post SHTF scenario, I don't think there's going to be many police out there looking to see if your fuel's red tinted, and two barrels of fuel oil will get you a *LONG* ways.


good idea.. not sure where I would buy it though.
It does have a van heater that runs off the same supply at the motor.

Link Posted: 12/26/2011 11:32:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8xqnTSKWTWs/TuU_jQWzupI/AAAAAAAABxA/ZV7l0liV1xQ/s800/CJM_1221s.jpg

Outside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4D_fxbkZcZM/Tr24YQzfw5I/AAAAAAAABtQ/BCnxDo4XNRc/s800/CJM_1858s.jpg

There is still lots of work to do.


Question for you: Have you put thought into investing in #3 fuel oil?

I hear that if you have a heater of some kind that runs on it, you can justify buying a barrel or two.

In a post SHTF scenario, I don't think there's going to be many police out there looking to see if your fuel's red tinted, and two barrels of fuel oil will get you a *LONG* ways.


good idea.. not sure where I would buy it though.
It does have a van heater that runs off the same supply at the motor.



Minnesota Heating Oil.

http://www.minnesotaheatingoil.com/?gclid=CMPdj9vJoK0CFRECQAodRhoOow

I get mine from Dehn in Anoka. It's typically, per gallon, about a dollar and a half or more cheaper than diesel. It'll work awesome in your truck, just don't get caught using it now. It's technically tax evasion, and is highly frowned upon. In a SHTF scenario, well, the only people that will want to stop you are probably enemies be they outlaws or police/military. None of them have your best interests in mind at that point.
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 6:24:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8xqnTSKWTWs/TuU_jQWzupI/AAAAAAAABxA/ZV7l0liV1xQ/s800/CJM_1221s.jpg

Outside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4D_fxbkZcZM/Tr24YQzfw5I/AAAAAAAABtQ/BCnxDo4XNRc/s800/CJM_1858s.jpg

There is still lots of work to do.


Question for you: Have you put thought into investing in #3 fuel oil?

I hear that if you have a heater of some kind that runs on it, you can justify buying a barrel or two.

In a post SHTF scenario, I don't think there's going to be many police out there looking to see if your fuel's red tinted, and two barrels of fuel oil will get you a *LONG* ways.


good idea.. not sure where I would buy it though.
It does have a van heater that runs off the same supply at the motor.



Minnesota Heating Oil.

http://www.minnesotaheatingoil.com/?gclid=CMPdj9vJoK0CFRECQAodRhoOow

I get mine from Dehn in Anoka. It's typically, per gallon, about a dollar and a half or more cheaper than diesel. It'll work awesome in your truck, just don't get caught using it now. It's technically tax evasion, and is highly frowned upon. In a SHTF scenario, well, the only people that will want to stop you are probably enemies be they outlaws or police/military. None of them have your best interests in mind at that point.


I will check that out. I was planning on putting a second 50gl tank on there anyway for the heater.. wink wink nudge nudge
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 6:43:17 AM EDT
Have you thought about a pilots license? A Cessna 182 has a range of 930nm. You and another in your group should get your license. Then you will not have to worry about taking anything with you or the impossible trip to make it there on the roads. If you and your crew are serious you could rent aircraft for two days and practice your bug out. It would be relatively inexpensive once you have your license. Then you would only need a vehicle to get you to an airport where there are aircraft to be "borrowed" if SHTF.

You can also get a used school bus for next to nothing as well. There was a place in Chicago that was auctioning them off for about 500 on Ebay the last time I checked.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 6:26:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hoelscherlj:
Have you thought about a pilots license? A Cessna 182 has a range of 930nm. You and another in your group should get your license. Then you will not have to worry about taking anything with you or the impossible trip to make it there on the roads. If you and your crew are serious you could rent aircraft for two days and practice your bug out. It would be relatively inexpensive once you have your license. Then you would only need a vehicle to get you to an airport where there are aircraft to be "borrowed" if SHTF.

You can also get a used school bus for next to nothing as well. There was a place in Chicago that was auctioning them off for about 500 on Ebay the last time I checked.


I could just see that now if he had a false alarm. "Really officer, I thought the fecal matter was impacting the rotary device so I forcibly "borrowed" that airplane and made a one way flight to Colorado. Honest mistake right?"
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:23:34 AM EDT
Well, if it means anything to anyone, here is my plan:

Honestly, all things considered, luck would prove a major role in any low budget BOV getting 900 miles to Colorado in a SHTF situation. I don't like to rely on luck. Only way to have a good, safe bet is a military type armored/armed convoy. The trip is ONLY successful if EVERYONE makes it safely. For now, I am not rich enough to consider that. Plane was a good idea, though.

I am prepping to dig in. Stock up on as much ammo (especially .22) and supplies as I can afford. If I am ever in a financial situation to move out there, I will. We have lakes out here, but as stated: Sport type fishing would not yield enough to live on. I will be getting/making regular fish traps. (I wish I didn't hate the taste of fish). I feel that would be a major food source out here.


Thank you all for all your input.
Link Posted: 12/29/2011 10:12:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmxterra:
My BOV build (in progress of building) Dual purpose of family camper and general mobility in a fuel crunch vehicle (multi fuel engine)

Inside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8xqnTSKWTWs/TuU_jQWzupI/AAAAAAAABxA/ZV7l0liV1xQ/s800/CJM_1221s.jpg

Outside
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4D_fxbkZcZM/Tr24YQzfw5I/AAAAAAAABtQ/BCnxDo4XNRc/s800/CJM_1858s.jpg

There is still lots of work to do.


Needs this:
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 4:08:44 PM EDT
For anyone who cares:

My experience with 87 octane with ethanol is that with stabil and storage in preban jerry gans I see NO performance loss after 12-15 months of storage. I have 5 cans I rotate, typically using the the stuff laying around >1 yr in my I/O boat. I say 15 months is the longest simply because I haven't let any go beyond that timeframe.

900miles is a haul and it will be little things like fla tires, blown hoses or broken belts that get you.

I like the idea of a sport bike––with the deuce/half you could mount a flip down rack for such a bike and have a scout that could ride ahead and report back. Sounds like you would benefit from a closer BO location and some friends with radios who can povide info along the way.

Me being stuck with 2 young kids––I'm bugging in until I have to bug out. and the bugging out will have to be by car.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 6:45:24 PM EDT
I always thought a late 80s Surburban or xtended cab F-series with a secure topper with either a 350 or 302 would be ideal, simply for the fact that they are new enough where parts can still be pretty standard and old enough where you can afro-engineer fixes to keep them running. A grille guard to protect radiator, and computer hard drive shielding around the distributor (Ford's electronic ignition box is bolted to it) and engine management computer parts. I've thought maybe up armoring the doors and whatnot, but when you factor in weight and the glass still won't stop bullets, I don't think it's worth it. Stick to trying to make the engine area withstand bullets and put a shield on the lower differentials (I once tore off a differential cover doing light offroading in soft mud). Have a high lift jack, good jumper cables, good tool selection and basic cold weather stuff in there at all times. Have used jumper cables to start a fire in the woods before. I really think the lower profile stuff would be less of a target. I know if I saw a deuce and a half rolling down the road, it'd scream target to me, were I a dirty crook.

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