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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/22/2004 4:22:20 AM EST
Can we build them here? I just heard we can't and looked up the RCW's but couldn't find much.
Thanks.

Digital
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:30:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:06:55 AM EST
[cartman]You guys suck ass.....[/cartman]
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 11:02:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 11:04:01 AM EST by cleaner]
here is the content of an email i sent and recieved back from the ATF field office in WA:

From: Jeff *******
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 8:18 PM
To: EPS Directorate
Subject: Short barreled rifles in washington state


I would like to know if Washington state allows the making of a short barrel rifle from an existing title 1 firearm with proper tax paid. also, if I live in arizona, where SBRs are legal, can i bring them with me when i move to washington state? thank you,

Jeff *******


now reply from FES division, short and to the point:

From : FES Division <FES@atf.gov>
Sent : Friday, October 22, 2004 7:36 AM
To : <dsm1@hotmail.com>
Subject : RE: ******-NFA: Short barreled rifles in washington state


The state of Washington does not prohibit the possession or making of short barrel rifles by individuals.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 11:30:27 AM EST
He must have written that in error, because SBRs were made illegal in 1994.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 11:33:37 AM EST
well, then i will try to get a clarification, but either way, i should be fine bringing anyhting i currently have SBR'ed into WA if it was SBR before 94
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 11:47:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By cleaner:
here is the content of an email i sent and recieved back from the ATF field office in WA:

From: Jeff *******
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 8:18 PM
To: EPS Directorate
Subject: Short barreled rifles in washington state


I would like to know if Washington state allows the making of a short barrel rifle from an existing title 1 firearm with proper tax paid. also, if I live in arizona, where SBRs are legal, can i bring them with me when i move to washington state? thank you,

Jeff *******


now reply from FES division, short and to the point:

From : FES Division <FES@atf.gov>
Sent : Friday, October 22, 2004 7:36 AM
To : <dsm1@hotmail.com>
Subject : RE: ******-NFA: Short barreled rifles in washington state


The state of Washington does not prohibit the possession or making of short barrel rifles by individuals.



WHOA .... get that in writing (actual paper) !!!!!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 11:53:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By cleaner:
well, then i will try to get a clarification, but either way, i should be fine bringing anyhting i currently have SBR'ed into WA if it was SBR before 94



Maybe. Check the other thread, Phil posted the RCW. It may have only grandfathered weapons owned in 1994.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 11:55:33 AM EST
Looks like you'll be OK bringing anything you had pre-1994 in.

RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.
(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.


RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.

(2) This section shall not apply to:

(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or

(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:

(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;

(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or

(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.

(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.

(4) Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:07:28 PM EST
im gonna keep trying until i get a positive answer outta someone, im moving to WA in june and want to keep my toys.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:44:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By cleaner:
im gonna keep trying until i get a positive answer outta someone, im moving to WA in june and want to keep my toys.



Isn't there some paperwork involved when you move most NFA items (in this case SBRs) from state to state anyway? Is there another CLEO sign off involved?

The email you got from the ATF is just flat wrong.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:55:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By cleaner:
im gonna keep trying until i get a positive answer outta someone, im moving to WA in june and want to keep my toys.



Isn't there some paperwork involved when you move most NFA items (in this case SBRs) from state to state anyway? Is there another CLEO sign off involved?

The email you got from the ATF is just flat wrong.



For transferring NFA interstate you need an approved Form 5320.20 – Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain National Firearms Act (NFA) Firearms [not necessary for suppressors & AOW's].

As I posted on the other thread, here's my take on WA SBR/SBS :

RCW 9.41.010 (4) & (6) SBR/SBS's.

(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length AND any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

(6) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length AND any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.


Less-than-willing attorney's I've inquired with interpret the "AND" to mean SBR/SBS's must satisfy both criteria, whereas an OR would mean either criteria could apply.

I contend people and the NFA are misinterpreting the AND to mean OR, therefore you should be able to have a short-barreled gun that is over 26" in overall length or a super-short-buttstocked gun with barrel(s) at least 16-18" in length accordingly. (The latter being somewhat ridiculous.)
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:15:45 PM EST
mordecai, I see your point however this is where I think it falls down.


(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

We have two subjects both with independant clauses.

I'd bet money if someone was foolish enough to send a letter to the BATFE requesting an opinion that the reply would come back contrary to what we'd like.

I took a quick peek and this is the best cite I found (god I had reading this stuff, makes my eyes spin)

in US v. LUCIUS BREELAND, II,

A federal grand jury indicted Breeland on two counts. In
Count One, Breeland was charged with possession of an unregistered
sawed-off shotgun in violation of 26 U.S.C. section 5861(d)


Breeland now appeals, contending (1) that the district court
erroneously denied Breeland's motion to suppress the sawed-off
shotgun recovered from his vehicle, (2) that Breeland's sawed-off
shotgun did not meet the definition of a "firearm" in 28 U.S.C.
section 5845(a)


Breeland also challenges the sufficiency of the evidence to
convict him on Count One of his indictment, arguing that the weapon
produced at trial was not a "firearm" as that term is defined in
the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. sections 5801-5872 (1988).
[footnote 5] In pertinent part, the Act prohibits the possession of
a firearm that is not registered to the possessor in the National
Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. 26 U.S.C.
section 5861(d). [footnote 6] The statute defines the term
"firearm" as, among other things, "(1) a shotgun having a barrel or
barrels of less than 18 inches in length; [and] (2) a weapon made
from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of
less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches
in length." 26 U.S.C. section 5845(a). [footnote 7] The Act then
defines a "shotgun" as:

a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or
redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the
explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a
smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or
a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and
shall include any such weapon which may be readily
restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.

26 U.S.C. section 5845(d).

Breeland contends that the sawed-off shotgun produced at trial
does not meet the definition of shotgun in section 5845(d) because,
as modified, it was not intended to be fired from the shoulder.
This argument overlooks the fact that a weapon need not be a
shotgun to meet the definition of "firearm" in section 5845(a).
Section 5845(a)(2) provides that the term "firearm" includes "a
weapon made from a shotgun" (emphasis added) which, as modified,
has a barrel of less than eighteen inches or an overall length of
less than twenty-six inches. Breeland's weapon, as modified, may
not have been intended to be fired from the shoulder, [footnote
8] but under section 5845(a)(2), the relevant inquiry is whether it
was made from a weapon intended to be fired from the shoulder.

...we hold that a rational jury could
find beyond a reasonable doubt that Breeland's weapon was (1) "made
from a shotgun," and (2) shorter than the dimensions provided in
section 5845(a)(2), thereby satisfying the definition of a firearm
in the National Firearms Act.




Link Posted: 10/28/2004 10:11:41 PM EST
nope not allowed got to put on a fake can like this......


Link Posted: 10/28/2004 10:47:43 PM EST
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