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Posted: 10/13/2004 8:19:56 AM EST
I did a search and did not find any info about this....I know if they are legal than I would need for a CLEO to sign a Form 1 and 200.00 to the BATF. Please advise, thanks

Bigant
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:37:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 8:46:03 AM EST by monkeyman]
yes and no. Yes SBRs are legal if you have a Class 3 FFL or if they are Curio and Relics and you have a C&R license. Otherwise no.

Specificaly covered in MCL 750.224b

"Sec 224b (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle."
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:39:55 AM EST
if you are a regular peasant you are not allowed an sbr in MI

i wish i could legally have one
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:50:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
yes and no. Yes SBRs are legal if you have a Class 3 FFL or if they are Curio and Relics and you have a C&R license. Otherwise no.

Specificaly covered in MCL 750.224b

"Sec 224b (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle."



Okay if its not 30" or longer its considerd a Pistol in Michgan..So does that mean that you need to have a 16" barrel and if its not longer than 30" than its a Pistol?

Since I'm looking into a HK 94 and you know without the fake can its a SBR...so I'm just trying to make sure I get the right stuff, and remain legal


Bigant
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:05:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 3:09:51 PM EST by monkeyman]
An SBR in Mich is a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" and/or an overall length of less than 26",

An SBR in federal law is a rifle with a barrel less than 16"

So no matter what. you have to have at least a 16" bbl and the overall length has to be at least 26" in MI.

Oh, and the answer to your question is yes, if less than 30" with a 16" bbl is has to be registered as a pistol.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:31:30 AM EST
Actually there are three catagories.

Under 26" OAL is a pistol, regardless of barrel...register it
Between 26 and 30" OAL with at least 16" barrel is an SBR..register it like a pistol
Over 30" OAL and at least 16" barrel is a rifle...no registration
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:51:47 AM EST

It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle. This does not apply to the sale, offering for sale or possession of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun which federal law has designated as a curio, relic, antique, museum piece or collector`s item not likely to be used as a weapon, but only if the person selling, offering for sale or possessing the firearm has also fully complied with the provisions regarding pistols. It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger; a muffler; or a silencer. This does not apply to persons federally licensed to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device or weapon described above.


from The NRA-ILA Website

You can have a short barrel on an AR15 in Michigan, but you can't have any features that would make it a rifle such as a rear stock, front vertical grip, etc.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:54:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By bump0x:

It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle. This does not apply to the sale, offering for sale or possession of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun which federal law has designated as a curio, relic, antique, museum piece or collector`s item not likely to be used as a weapon, but only if the person selling, offering for sale or possessing the firearm has also fully complied with the provisions regarding pistols. It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger; a muffler; or a silencer. This does not apply to persons federally licensed to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device or weapon described above.


from The NRA-ILA Website

You can have a short barrel on an AR15 in Michigan, but you can't have any features that would make it a rifle such as a rear stock, front vertical grip, etc.



MI is a mess. Broomhandle Mausers and vintage Browning High Powers with the shoulder stocks attached become SBRs but an AK with the folding stock is a pistol. I've always wanted to get a Vector Arms Uzi register it as a pistol and then attach the wood stock to shoot in PCC Matches, but 'no can do' here. Becomes a SBR once you attach the stock whether it's folding or fixed.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:21:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jeepster:

Originally Posted By bump0x:

It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle. This does not apply to the sale, offering for sale or possession of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun which federal law has designated as a curio, relic, antique, museum piece or collector`s item not likely to be used as a weapon, but only if the person selling, offering for sale or possessing the firearm has also fully complied with the provisions regarding pistols. It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger; a muffler; or a silencer. This does not apply to persons federally licensed to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device or weapon described above.


from The NRA-ILA Website

You can have a short barrel on an AR15 in Michigan, but you can't have any features that would make it a rifle such as a rear stock, front vertical grip, etc.



MI is a mess. Broomhandle Mausers and vintage Browning High Powers with the shoulder stocks attached become SBRs but an AK with the folding stock is a pistol. I've always wanted to get a Vector Arms Uzi register it as a pistol and then attach the wood stock to shoot in PCC Matches, but 'no can do' here. Becomes a SBR once you attach the stock whether it's folding or fixed.



How do you register a AK with a folding stock as a pistol? What about a AR with a folding stock with a barrel length less than 16 inches and less than 26 OAL?

Would you be in a gray legal territory with the ATF doing so?
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 12:06:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Jeepster:

Originally Posted By bump0x:

It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle. This does not apply to the sale, offering for sale or possession of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun which federal law has designated as a curio, relic, antique, museum piece or collector`s item not likely to be used as a weapon, but only if the person selling, offering for sale or possessing the firearm has also fully complied with the provisions regarding pistols. It is unlawful to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger; a muffler; or a silencer. This does not apply to persons federally licensed to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device or weapon described above.


from The NRA-ILA Website

You can have a short barrel on an AR15 in Michigan, but you can't have any features that would make it a rifle such as a rear stock, front vertical grip, etc.



MI is a mess. Broomhandle Mausers and vintage Browning High Powers with the shoulder stocks attached become SBRs but an AK with the folding stock is a pistol. I've always wanted to get a Vector Arms Uzi register it as a pistol and then attach the wood stock to shoot in PCC Matches, but 'no can do' here. Becomes a SBR once you attach the stock whether it's folding or fixed.



How do you register a AK with a folding stock as a pistol? What about a AR with a folding stock with a barrel length less than 16 inches and less than 26 OAL?

Would you be in a gray legal territory with the ATF doing so?



If you take your AR with a barrel less than 16" in to get it registered, you'll be lucky not to get arrested. It's by no means grey - it violates Federal Firearms laws.

With the AK, just take it in to your local cop shop and request to register it. Depending where you do it, they may need the law explained to them. One of the threads on this site had the Michigan Law hotlinked. It was page 138, IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 2:40:52 PM EST
I think you have to modify your AK so the stock doesn't fold open. I understand that a hose clamp satisfies this requirement. You aren't supposed to ever unfold that stock. Having an AR with a barrel less than 16" is not a violation of Federal Firearm law nor is it necessarily a violation of Michigan law. In order to have an AR15 with a barrel less than 16" it must be registered as a pistol and in order for it to be considered a pistol, it can have no buttstock or vertical front grip. States that allow SBRs let you have an AR15 with a barrel less than 16" and buttstock, vertical foregrip, etc., but it must be registered as such, just like a machine gun.
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