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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:32:21 AM EDT
Is there a service provider for submitting sbr app? I dont want to mess it up and dont have the patience to decipher the forms I need to fillout.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:37:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2021 10:38:03 AM EDT by CenterMass0]
You could probably offer to pay any Class 3 dealer a fee to do it for you.  

I'm guessing a C3 dealer might also be willing to look over what you do on your own (if you have an existing customer relationship with them).

Frankly, it's really not complicated.  There are a ton of places on the internet that show you what you need to do.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:42:42 AM EDT
The eFile Form system that the ATF has makes it incredibly easy. There is no reason to pay someone when you can do it yourself. Turnaround is quick and if you screw it up you just get a denied and they refund $200.

There is a very useful guide here:
https://www.quietbore.com/2019/09/16/atf-eform-1-electronic-filing-guide/
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 7:22:59 PM EDT
Get AW cert and efile. Youll need to list caliber, barrel length, and OAL. Its very easy to do.
Link Posted: 1/26/2021 1:45:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2021 1:46:03 PM EDT by MikeOD82]
Yeah, you will need to submit a scan of your CT AW Certificate, and OAL of a rifle is measured with a collapsible stock fully extended.
Link Posted: 1/26/2021 5:42:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2021 3:16:56 PM EDT by har1340]
Good luck OP.

I did an efile for a SBR last April at the worst time in at 13 days from submission I had my approved Form 1 emailed to me. WTF. Now I just did another SBR 12/03/20 and am stuck in limbo. I have an FMP91 I'm SBRing and do have a assault weapons cert for it. While I was "efileing" I got stuck on FMP as the ATF doesn't seem to be aware of FMP. So it's in there search to find the manufacturer. 6 weeks WTF.

Good luck...
Link Posted: 1/27/2021 8:14:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By har1340:
Good luck OP.

I did an efile for a SBR last April at the worst time in at 13 days from submission I had my approved Form 1 emailed to me. WTF. Now I just did another SBR 12/03/20 and am stuck in limbo. I have an FMP91 I'm SBRing and do have a assault weapons cert for it. While I was "efileing" I got stuck on FMP as the ATF doesn't seem to be aware of FMP. So it's in there search to find the manufacturer. 6 weeks WTF.

Good luck...
View Quote


Can you point me towards the form to register the preban  with ct dps? I cant find it on their website and was told I cant go in person.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 8:29:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:


Can you point me towards the form to register the preban  with ct dps? I cant find it on their website and was told I cant go in person.
View Quote



Sorry, I can not help with that as I've had my AW certs for sometime now (years) and would not know how to obtain what you seek.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:04:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:Can you point me towards the form to register the preban  with ct dps? I cant find it on their website and was told I cant go in person.
View Quote

Call SLFU and ask to speak to:
CESARIO, Deirdre     (860) 685-8290     [email protected]
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:59:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2021 9:59:59 AM EDT by ThatGuy01]
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Originally Posted By MikeOD82:
Yeah, you will need to submit a scan of your CT AW Certificate, and OAL of a rifle is measured with a collapsible stock fully extended.
View Quote


No longer true. OAL is measured at the shortest operable length. ATF gonna ATF.

There's back and forth on if that means stock off or not, I use stock collapsed and it's fine.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter. You're registering a receiver, not a configuration, and the ATF doesn't care past that point.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 7:29:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By User55645:

Call SLFU and ask to speak to:
CESARIO, Deirdre     (860) 685-8290     [email protected]
View Quote



She has helprd me before and helped me again today. Hopefully I hear back next week and efile.

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 7:41:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ThatGuy01:


No longer true. OAL is measured at the shortest operable length. ATF gonna ATF.

There's back and forth on if that means stock off or not, I use stock collapsed and it's fine.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter. You're registering a receiver, not a configuration, and the ATF doesn't care past that point.
View Quote


When an individual applies to make and register an NFA firearm, they are literally applying to make and register a specific firearm. That's why NFA Branch no longer approves applications with caliber fields marked multi, for example. The effective status that you are trying to allude to comes from ATF determining that a person may temporarily reconfigure an NFA weapon without notifying ATF (e.g. adapting an SBR chambered for 5.56mm to fire .300 BLK cartridges). There are limitations, e.g. that an individual would need to submit a new Form 1 and obtain approval before putting it into a configuration that is not covered by the original classification (e.g. In order to reconfigure an SBS as an SBR, an individual would need to first seek ATF approval to make and register a 'new' NFA firearm). ATF also requests to be informed when an NFA registered firearm is reconfigured and can not be returned to its listed configuration.  ATF has denied Form 4 transfer applications when the listed configuration is not consistent with the configuration listed in the NFRTR (this is a development from perhaps a decade or so ago, which followed discovery of a criminal conspiracy devised by several SOTs who circularly transferred pre-86 machine guns with a series of changing configurations before eventually grafting serial number plates onto otherwise non-transferable machineguns and then transferring them as being facially legal for civilian transfer when in fact they were not.

In 2019, ATF did issue guidance that OAL on firearms equipped with folding telescoping stabilizing braces. In effect this meant that a folding stabilizing brace could not be used to artificially increase the firearm's OAL (which some people were doing or attempting to do to try to circumvent AOW registration requirements). The 25 JUN 2019 letter that established the procedure distinguished it from the procedure used for measuring rifles and shotguns with folding stocks, which are designed to be fired from the shoulder.

Do you have an ATF document that established a new method for measuring OAL on rifles and shotguns?
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:19:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2021 9:22:03 PM EDT by ThatGuy01]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAD:

ATF also requests to be informed when an NFA registered firearm is reconfigured and can not be returned to its listed configuration.
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Originally Posted By JAD:

ATF also requests to be informed when an NFA registered firearm is reconfigured and can not be returned to its listed configuration.


That is not listed in ATF Pub 5320.8 Revised April 2009 under required notifications to the ATF. Similarly, there are documented e-mail chains floating around (I have an excerpt from one screenshoted somewhere here which I'll dig up) that say they don't care. Once the firearm is on the registry, the ATF does not care what you do to it in terms of configuration. They DO care if you transport the SBR inter-state, in which case (per 5320.8, as I'm sure you know, you need to file a 5320.20 or send a letter with the same information). I received confirmation of that myself when I "asked an expert" as a result of one of my Form 1s going into "pending research" and discussing it with the examiner.

In 2019, ATF did issue guidance that OAL on firearms equipped with folding telescoping stabilizing braces. In effect this meant that a folding stabilizing brace could not be used to artificially increase the firearm's OAL (which some people were doing or attempting to do to try to circumvent AOW registration requirements). The 25 JUN 2019 letter that established the procedure distinguished it from the procedure used for measuring rifles and shotguns with folding stocks, which are designed to be fired from the shoulder.

Do you have an ATF document that established a new method for measuring OAL on rifles and shotguns?

Nope, that was verbatim from the ATF on the same call when I discussed the reconfiguration. Measure it at the shortest shoulderable/operable length. The same logic as when you register an MP5SD you do it with an overall length to the front of the barrel shroud without the suppressor length included. Of course, as I said above, it does not matter in the slightest.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:20:46 PM EDT
And the e-mail from the examiner:
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 9:18:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2021 9:21:15 AM EDT by User55645]
@ThatGuy01
Listening to an examiner to make a determination is a terrible idea. First off, by order of the AG, back in ~'17, dept's were no longer to give advice or opinions and to only quote specific laws and regulations.

Also, David is misleading when he says "...but isn't required. If they choose to provide...".

Yes, the ATF says you can swap configurations. However, right on your form 1 it states
"Change of Description or Address: The registrant shall notify the NFA Division, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 244 Needy Road, Martinsburg, WV
25405, in writing, of any change to the description of the firearm in item 4, or any change to the address of the registrant."

A permanent caliber, barrel length, and/or OAL change would obligate you to notify the ATF.

Not that any of this really matters. They're not coming after you for it and if you fail to remove it from the registry, while selling as Title1, it'll be the next guys problem, if and when he goes to SBR it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 11:04:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2021 11:05:56 AM EDT by ThatGuy01]
Yeah, I think I've said that none of it matters. You do what you feel comfortable with. Based on my conversations with the ATF, and the guidelines in the 5320.8, I'm quite satisfied that the legal requirements are met. Note that the language on the 5320.1 does not appear in the relevant CFR.

I'm not worried about the ATF coming to shoot my dog over an upper receiver change.
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 9:19:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ThatGuy01:


That is not listed in ATF Pub 5320.8 Revised April 2009 under required notifications to the ATF. Similarly, there are documented e-mail chains floating around (I have an excerpt from one screenshoted somewhere here which I'll dig up) that say they don't care. Once the firearm is on the registry, the ATF does not care what you do to it in terms of configuration. They DO care if you transport the SBR inter-state, in which case (per 5320.8, as I'm sure you know, you need to file a 5320.20 or send a letter with the same information). I received confirmation of that myself when I "asked an expert" as a result of one of my Form 1s going into "pending research" and discussing it with the examiner.


Nope, that was verbatim from the ATF on the same call when I discussed the reconfiguration. Measure it at the shortest shoulderable/operable length. The same logic as when you register an MP5SD you do it with an overall length to the front of the barrel shroud without the suppressor length included. Of course, as I said above, it does not matter in the slightest.
View Quote


Measuring an MP5SD to the front of the barrel shroud would make since, because the suppressor is effectively a removable muzzle device. Under ATF's measurement procedures, removable muzzle devices are not counted towards barrel length or overall length.
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 9:22:08 PM EDT
See the 25JUN2019 ATF letter at this link:

https://www.internationalsportsman.com/are-you-committing-a-felony-new-rules-how-to-measure-a-ar-15-pistol/
Link Posted: 1/30/2021 8:56:17 AM EDT
In the case of the ar if you have the original upper it doesn't matter
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 6:03:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2021 6:08:01 PM EDT by MikeOD82]
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Originally Posted By ThatGuy01:


No longer true. OAL is measured at the shortest operable length. ATF gonna ATF.

There's back and forth on if that means stock off or not, I use stock collapsed and it's fine.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter. You're registering a receiver, not a configuration, and the ATF doesn't care past that point.
View Quote


I think you're mixing their determinations on braces and stocks.  Far as I know, and I'm not saying I'm a lawyer or an expert (I'm neither), braced firearms (pistols, AOW's and for us CT others) are measured with the collapsing/folding brace collapsed/folded.  Weapons intended to be fired from the shoulder with stocks are measured extended to full length.

The concern for how overall length is measured matters most for a CT other because the weapon has to be over 26" long per their definition, or you have to register as an AOW.  When you're registering/making a SBR or SBS, it can be as short or as long as your heart desires so long as you've got your CT certificate to go with it showing the ATF that it's legal for you to possess it here.  I tried to be as accurate as I could when I've done anything on a form 1...again, I'm not an expert.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 7:15:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2021 7:17:25 PM EDT by User55645]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeOD82:
The concern for how overall length is measured matters most for a CT other because the weapon has to be over 26" long per their definition, or you have to register as an AOW.  
View Quote

negative
Federally, it's just a pistol
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:21:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By User55645:

negative
Federally, it's just a pistol
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Originally Posted By User55645:
Originally Posted By MikeOD82:
The concern for how overall length is measured matters most for a CT other because the weapon has to be over 26" long per their definition, or you have to register as an AOW.  

negative
Federally, it's just a pistol



OAL would matter on an other when a foregrip is incorporated into the design (which most do, to avoid being considered a pistol under either federal or state definition). If there is a foregrip, and the OAL is under 26", then it would need to be registered and taxed as an AOW.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:55:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAD:OAL would matter on an other when a foregrip is incorporated into the design
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And now you're making a different firearm, not an other.
Slap a stock on it and you have an SBR, maybe (bbl length).

Want an other? Slap a 12"bbl on a pistol or other lower (no stock) and you're done. Easy-peasy
Want a "VFG"? Use one the ATF has determined not to be a an actual VFG. Still no worrying about OAL and AOW classification.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:08:07 PM EDT
No idea what happened to the original topic. I think there might have been an answer to my question but I cant find it in this heap of bullshit...
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:17:32 PM EDT
First you have to obtain the assault weapon certificate. You either have one from when you registered it or you need to contact Deirdre at the Despp in obtain an assault weapon certificate for your pre-ban.

Then you can fill out your form and get your fingerprints on the blue cars with the correct NFA address. I'm not sure if you need that citizenship form anymore.

With the e-file I believe you got a reference number to send all your paperwork with
Link Posted: 2/4/2021 12:34:00 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:
No idea what happened to the original topic. I think there might have been an answer to my question but I cant find it in this heap of bullshit...
View Quote

The 1st post answered your Q.
Come to cthtf, expect to get cthtf
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 12:46:39 PM EDT
Ok so I think I got my 5320.1 and 5320.3 all filled out for my trust. But where do i attach a copy of my assault registration certificate?

I don't see anywhere that I have to state it is included, no box to check and nothing that says Additional documents.

Do you guys just include it in the mailing or write something declaring it is contained in the mailed app?
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 1:37:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:
Ok so I think I got my 5320.1 and 5320.3 all filled out for my trust. But where do i attach a copy of my assault registration certificate?

I don't see anywhere that I have to state it is included, no box to check and nothing that says Additional documents.

Do you guys just include it in the mailing or write something declaring it is contained in the mailed app?
View Quote



There's not going to be anything on the federal forms about it because it's only in this screwed up state that it's relevant.

Just attach it with a paperclip with your payment and call it a day.  No need to overthink it.
Link Posted: 3/3/2021 4:17:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By User55645:

negative
Federally, it's just a pistol
View Quote


Not with the VFG that pretty much everyone puts on their CT other.  Shorter than 26" with a VFG is a AOW.  Sorry I wasn't more clear, but that's what I meant about why it's so important to know how to measure length of a CT other.
Link Posted: 3/3/2021 7:23:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:
Ok so I think I got my 5320.1 and 5320.3 all filled out for my trust. But where do i attach a copy of my assault registration certificate?

I don't see anywhere that I have to state it is included, no box to check and nothing that says Additional documents.

Do you guys just include it in the mailing or write something declaring it is contained in the mailed app?
View Quote


When I did my SBR, I included a cover letter with an enumerated enclosures list of the documents that were included.
Link Posted: 3/4/2021 4:56:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:
Ok so I think I got my 5320.1 and 5320.3 all filled out for my trust. But where do i attach a copy of my assault registration certificate?

I don't see anywhere that I have to state it is included, no box to check and nothing that says Additional documents.

Do you guys just include it in the mailing or write something declaring it is contained in the mailed app?
View Quote


When I e-filed, I just took a picture of my AW cert, and uploaded it in the additional documents.  That way I was only mailing the cover letter with my prints.
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 11:20:53 AM EDT
Does anyone know if the address on my AW Cert needs to be my current address? I’ve since moved from when the Certs were a thing. G2G or get them updated? I don’t recall ever seeing anything about keeping the certs up to date with address changes like you do with your permit. Any ideas? Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 11:39:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2021 11:39:50 AM EDT by sbhaven]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mitchman705:
Does anyone know if the address on my AW Cert needs to be my current address?
View Quote

It appears you just need to use the current address on the form at the time the cert was submitted to the state. There doesn't appear to be anything in the statute (link below) mandating one notify the state of their new address when it comes to previously submitted AW certs.

Sec. 53-202d. Certificate of possession of assault weapon. Certificate of transfer of assault weapon to gun dealer. Circumstances where possession of assault weapon authorized.
Link Posted: 5/26/2021 10:38:50 PM EDT
Got my stamp today. I did it all with youtube vids. It was daunting but now that it is done I can say it would be very easy the second time around.

can anyone suggest an engraver foe me? I am in wallingford if that matters.

Link Posted: 5/27/2021 12:10:13 AM EDT
Engrave Your Gift
https://www.engraveyourgift.com/contact-us.html

He's in New Britain, right up the road, and does great work for a great price.
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 11:38:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2021 11:39:50 AM EDT by Tbr1806]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ThatGuy01:
Engrave Your Gift
https://www.engraveyourgift.com/contact-us.html

He's in New Britain, right up the road, and does great work for a great price.
View Quote


This 100%. He will do it while you wait and takes about 30mins. He'll show you the whole operation. Great guy.

Call him to set something up, he works out of his house so I dont think you can just show up
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 3:36:09 PM EDT
I called and she told me to call on monday to set up a time.

Can I engrave the trigger guard, magpul aluminum, or does it have to be on the receiver itself?
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 3:42:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2021 3:44:20 PM EDT by Milspec99]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nickelsig229:
I called and she told me to call on monday to set up a time.

Can I engrave the trigger guard, magpul aluminum, or does it have to be on the receiver itself?
View Quote


Since that trigger guard is not a seamless part of the lower it's going to have to go on the receiver.  He did mine in the trigger guard area, above and below the trigger opening.

He wasn't thrilled that I asked him to do it but he did a great job.  The receiver was stripped so that made it much easier.  I'm not sure he could do it with the trigger or guard installed.
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 10:00:39 PM EDT
You can do the barrel-
Link Posted: 6/6/2021 6:35:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nutter:
You can do the barrel-
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THIS!
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