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Posted: 9/16/2005 6:39:00 AM EDT
If you all recall, the local Grayson County 4H club doesn't like to share the range, they don't follow proper range safety, and they refuse to bring hearing protection (although they were provided ear plugs free of charge last month).... All of which are not the "4H way"...

If you don't know the story-- look for the previous thread in this forum.

Last we spoke with the owner of the range in Tom Bean TX (about 30 mintes north of Allen on 121 or 75), he said the 4H club can use the rifle range exclusively on the 3rd Saturday of each month. However, they must post a sign the day before notifying the public that they are exclusively reserving the rifle range for their 2-hour shoot 9:30AM-11:30AM. If no sign was posted, we can use the rifle range at the same time. However, if there is a sign, let's use the shotgun range until they are done! I have some clay pidgeons, and they are less than $5 at Wal-Mart for a case... either way, we need to be present to show them they can't have their way and bully people off of a public range they get to use for free!

Anyone up for a shoot? Let's get there early-- we can carpool/caravan too... Meet in McKinney... the owner doesn't mind us being early, even 6:00AM!

However, we should be there before the other group sets up, which I am guessing is about 8:30AM....

Who's going? If we cannot get a group together this time, as Makarov_Mami is also out of town, I am 95% sure we are going again next month on October 15.

CnL-- can you check for a posted sign at the range this evening? Maybe take a picture of the sign, or if its NOT there... -Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:30:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:37:39 AM EDT
You are going to purposfully disrupt a 4H shoot? Because they want 2 hours of range time a month?

If they are not wearing hearing/eye protection, or following proper range safety, there are better ways of addressing this than disrupting their shoot.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 10:05:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrosto:
You are going to purposfully disrupt a 4H shoot? Because they want 2 hours of range time a month?

If they are not wearing hearing/eye protection, or following proper range safety, there are better ways of addressing this than disrupting their shoot.



sounds like there are other issues than just that
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 10:16:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 10:47:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
Last we spoke with the owner of the range in Tom Bean TX (about 30 mintes north of Allen on 121 or 75)



More like 40.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 11:11:26 AM EDT
Thanks for the link to the earlier post. EricTheHun had a good thought there also.

My daughter is the presedent of the Johnson County 4H shooting club, and they are very strict on range safety. All the kids in the 4H club are also members of the range. The senior club works closely with the jr. club and all works out pretty well. The 4Hers do ask for a bit of quiet time during the meeting (20 or 30 mins) and that does not seem to be a problem.

If this club is as sloppy with range safety as you report, you really should contact the 4H about this. They will send someone out to observe and correct the situation. One of the members of the A&M board of directors is trying to put a stop to A&M's support of 4H shooting sports, and poor range safety like this would just give her fuel for her anti gun fire.

If you want to have some fun, and watch kids having a blast, you should go to the state shoot in San Antonio. Hundreds of kids competing together in all kinds of shooting sports.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 12:06:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 12:07:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:15:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
Last we spoke with the owner of the range in Tom Bean TX (about 30 mintes north of Allen on 121 or 75)



More like 40.



30 miles North of McKinney, I drive it every day, takes abut 35 min



If you are already on the freeway, in Allen, its about 30 minutes ...
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:22:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:
as of 2pm .. no signs posted for reservation of the range




I believe it must be posted by a reasonable time, before dusk in my book, as people don't generally use the range after dark...

I take it you will show tomorrow morning and get a hold on the range for us?
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 2:16:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 2:28:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:
Ill be up al night keeping watch on the smoker (two briskets, and a couple of boston butts ) for a BBq dinner at the S.O. tomorrow. Wanna keep me company ??????????

BYOB




Hmmm... how far are you from the range? Is the smoker on the range? You going in the morning or not? (confused)

If you want us to come by and hang out tonight... sure... Energizer has a new toy he wants to try out at the range! Email him-- check your email.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:00:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 3:01:14 PM EDT by CockedandLocked]
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:04:04 PM EDT
If you had a few beers there, we'd come help you keep an eye on the fire.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:59:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:16:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:

Originally Posted By white32golf:
If you had a few beers there, we'd come help you keep an eye on the fire.



you can come help with the dishes





Now that is a hell of a thing for you to say to me. I'll let Sulham know you're alone.... and where to find you.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:27:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:06:22 PM EDT
CnL - did you ever get over to the range to see if the sign was posted? Also, did you talk to Ralph?
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:11:05 PM EDT
http://grayson-tx.tamu.edu/newsletters/05September.pdf
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:20:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 7:51:06 PM EDT by CockedandLocked]
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:10:26 PM EDT
OK, I'll admit that this does sound like a but hear me out.

For the sake of discussion, that they don't have the sign out and they do show up. Do we want to discourage new shooters by being an anal orifice about having a sign up?? Given the anti-gun climate even here in Texas, is this something that we want to do??

My 2¢,

wganz

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:50:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 7:52:00 PM EDT by CockedandLocked]
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 8:49:47 PM EDT by mikejohnson]
should we volunteer as range officers tomorrow? force them to conform to standard range ediquette?
is anyone a certified R.O.? I'll help pay your gas to come up (or carpool) and help control the range (I am sure Ralph would approve, what do you think CnL?)
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:55:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:00:22 PM EDT
they better bring ear plugs - afterall Ralph GAVE them a huge bag of earplugs last time since they could not "afford" them....
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:16:37 PM EDT
FYI-- same BS... long story.... But, after CnL left, the old hag approached us and argued about "the sign" she claimed was posted yesterday evening close to midnight (what a joke!) and would not tell us what the sign said but wanted us to agree to her terms... I said NO, since we don't know what the sign says, which can change at any time... We thought to ourselves, if that sign was posted close to or at midnight, 1. its not during normal business hours for people to see which is unreasonable, 2. it didn't fly away in the wind overnight, and 3. there was no morning "dew" damage...

She also violated many 4H and general range rules, such as calling out commence fire and allowing firearms to be handled WHILE ENGERGIZER WAS WALKING DOWN RANGE! WTF!? No hearing protection (admittedly), etc.

Here's the sign, by the way:

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:19:35 PM EDT
Oh yeah, and the original conversation with the owner was they only needed it between the hours of 9:30AM and 11:30AM, which is also stated in their newsletter, but today their sign says 4 hours. The old hag claimed the newsletter never stated this, we were wrong, etc. (See link above for newsletter off of THEIR site.) Basically, they want to hog the entire range, including shotgun area, for an entire Saturday morning-- PEAK SHOOTING RANGE TIME FOR THE RANGE OWNER TO MAKE $$$...
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:21:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 1:22:24 PM EDT by mikejohnson]
One more note-- more details will follow later.

However, it was a very light turnout-- about 10 people showed up for the 4H club... and the hag still bitched.


TEN PEOPLE, and they wanted to hog the entire range!
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:27:49 PM EDT
So what is the deal here ?

Did the big bad black rifle guys get to shoot today or what ?

Is there going to be a get together on Sunday ?

Do you guys get out there every third Saturday ?

I didnt see this post until today.

I wanted to get some information to attend the next get together.

John
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John11167:
So what is the deal here ?



Did the big bad black rifle guys get to shoot today or what ?


Yes. However, after the "rifle guy" left, the Mac10+suppressor/Ruger 10-22 guy and the AR Pistol (which wasn't really used) was confronted by the old hag and she was being very unreasonable and would not leave us alone-- kept harrassing us. The range owner will, someday, hear about this incident and life endangerment, yet again.


Is there going to be a get together on Sunday ?


Probably not tomorrow... although you might contact CnL as he lives nearby.


Do you guys get out there every third Saturday ?


This is pretty much the plan so far... Next shoot: October 15, EARLY. We are going to try and get there even earlier, but we keep hitting SNOOZE hehe... Shooting for 7:30AM at the latest, so we can set up for longer range shoots, etc. Maybe we can plan a good shooting event, with BBQ?



I didnt see this post until today.

I wanted to get some information to attend the next get together.

John



Just plan on every 3rd Saturday of each month, early morning-- maybe do a shotgun shoot too? Message me to ensure attendence as we almost forgot about this one, but Energizer had a good reason to go out there today...

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:00:58 PM EDT
Thanks Mike, I will keep an eye open the day before the next 3rd Saturday.

I dont have or know CnL so i will watch here.

Thanks
John
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 4:02:43 PM EDT
What is this sign stuff? Is the range now reservable? Does Ralph still own the place? He needs to step up and put up his own sign and end this nonsense.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 5:34:18 PM EDT
I say we put up a sign, that cannot be removed easily, on Thursday before the next shoot, reserving the entire morning of October 15 ...
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 5:34:58 PM EDT
By the way, they are assuming they are "the range management." LMAO...
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 5:36:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
What is this sign stuff? Is the range now reservable? Does Ralph still own the place? He needs to step up and put up his own sign and end this nonsense.



They want to hog the entire range, even though they don't use all of it, like today-- about 10 people.

More: http://www.black-rifles.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2738
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:23:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:19:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:
Renegade .

Yes the range is reservable to groups, we have done this before for arfcom shoots. However I have always given at least a weeks notice to Ralph even though he only requested a day or two notice. However we have never NOT allowed outsiders to join us and have offered to let them shoot our toys



OK, that is what confused me as we never made anyone feel unwelcome.

Glad to see you are going to work on it with Ralph and hopefully make it a win-win for everyone. I actually do not mind if the range is closed for private use, if enough notice is given, and I would like the kids to learn the right/safe way.

I will be more than happy to purchase/provide disposable ear protectors, but am unaware of any disposable eye protection. For once, something "for the children" I can agree with!
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:45:59 PM EDT
I have a sign from my pool builder left over. It is a real estate like metal sign that you step on to press into the ground and I am sure you could paint it for your needs.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:51:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 7:52:03 PM EDT by mikejohnson]
It would be nice to set her straight in her ways and help these kids, and their parents, enjoy guns and the sport. We should not intend to harass or scare them away.

BUT: the problem is bigger that we all thought, and not limited to Ralph's!


I had a casual conversation with the weird lady today and she said that they shoot every weekend. She apparently travels to every county to teach the shooting for 4H in the North & Northeast Texas areas. Next weekend is Smith county, then Denton, Paris, etc - if I remember correctly. But she wants to have them all meet at Ralph's every 3rd saturday instead.

SHE teaches the kids. She runs the range, if that is what you call it. She does not have any real safety, common sense, or any other apparent R.O. training. She claims that she has been teachin rifle marksmenship for over 30 years and that SHE was a national champion at one time.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:53:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 7:53:57 PM EDT by mikejohnson]

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
I will be more than happy to purchase/provide disposable ear protectors, but am unaware of any disposable eye protection. For once, something "for the children" I can agree with!



Last time they complained, Ralph brought out a huge bag of earplugs. This week they had some muffs but no one wore them!!!! She said it was because they have conversation while the kids are shooting. I recommended they have conversation away from the firing line and it would never be a problem.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 4:45:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:35:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 12:37:09 PM EDT by jrosto]
As a 4H dad, I have to apologize for the actions of this "lady". That is not the way we operate at our club. Our jr. club (the 4H) and the sr. club have a very good relationship. The 4H'rs run targets for us during our long range silhouette matches and are paid out of the match fees. We have fund raisers to get them better equipment, the last thing we got them is a Kimber match grade .45 (would she consider that a high power pistol?). And range safety is paramount. You are much more likely to see a parent getting "coached" for a safety violation than one of the kids. This person does not work with us at all and it is probably her kids that get all the range violations at multi club matches.

I hope ya'all get this worked out. Not enough kids get to shoot these days and they are all bombarded with anti gun messages in school and on TV. We try hard to make range time for them the best part of their month.

Oh, and as for her comments about "big bang" guns being hard on the wimmins and childrens, she should see how well a couple of our young teen girls shoot black powder
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 1:51:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrosto:
As a 4H dad, I have to apologize for the actions of this "lady". That is not the way we operate at our club. Our jr. club (the 4H) and the sr. club have a very good relationship. The 4H'rs run targets for us during our long range silhouette matches and are paid out of the match fees. We have fund raisers to get them better equipment, the last thing we got them is a Kimber match grade .45 (would she consider that a high power pistol?). And range safety is paramount. You are much more likely to see a parent getting "coached" for a safety violation than one of the kids. This person does not work with us at all and it is probably her kids that get all the range violations at multi club matches.

I hope ya'all get this worked out. Not enough kids get to shoot these days and they are all bombarded with anti gun messages in school and on TV. We try hard to make range time for them the best part of their month.

Oh, and as for her comments about "big bang" guns being hard on the wimmins and childrens, she should see how well a couple of our young teen girls shoot black powder



<Energizer "comment">
From what I gather, this lady claims to be the "main instructor" of all 4H groups in the area/region... and is an "expert" in target shooting as she's been doing this for 30 years... (Superalpha can correct me if I am wrong) But when she's constantly saying "Load & Lock" and doesn't really know what to say on the range as an R.O., ignores the fact there are people on the range when she calls it hot, etc., it really negates her claims...

As far as "big bang" guns, apparently, she also considers a 9mm a "big bang" gun.... but here's the kicker-- no hearing protection is really needed since there was a HUGE suppressor attached to it. Now of course, the ammo was not subsonic, but it really wasn't loud at all. She did however, change her tune on this later when I removed the suppressor for the remainder of the morning .

What county(state?) are you located?
</Energizer>
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:03:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 2:04:14 PM EDT by mikejohnson]

Originally Posted By jrosto:
As a 4H dad, I have to apologize for the actions of this "lady". That is not the way we operate at our club. Our jr. club (the 4H) and the sr. club have a very good relationship. The 4H'rs run targets for us during our long range silhouette matches and are paid out of the match fees. We have fund raisers to get them better equipment, the last thing we got them is a Kimber match grade .45 (would she consider that a high power pistol?).



I asked her about pistol competiton, etc - she said only .22LR - that is ALL.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:05:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 2:09:01 PM EDT by mikejohnson]
jrosto - welcome to arfcom, by the way...how did you find the site? did you read about this and decide to join? no matter, we will try to help the kids out by creating a safer and fun shooting environment

"do it for the children"
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:21:16 AM EDT
Thanks for the welcome Mike. I live in Arlington, but am a member of the Johnson Cty Shooting Spports Association. Found the site looking for info on building an AR, have been lurking for awhile and joined up to comment on this post and another.

I looked up the results of the Texas State 4H shoot to see how her shooters did, and it does not look like they even participated. I wonder if that is because of all the shotguns, centerfire pistols and black powder guns that were being shot that week. Maybe it was because everone was required to wear hearing and eye protection.

Here is a link to the Texas 4H site: http://tx4-h.tamu.edu/ss/

You may find the July newsletter interesting.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By white32golf:

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:

Originally Posted By white32golf:
If you had a few beers there, we'd come help you keep an eye on the fire.



you can come help with the dishes





Now that is a hell of a thing for you to say to me. I'll let Sulham know you're alone.... and where to find you.



Now that's some funny shit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:08:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:32:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:

Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By white32golf:

Originally Posted By CockedandLocked:

Originally Posted By white32golf:
If you had a few beers there, we'd come help you keep an eye on the fire.



you can come help with the dishes





Now that is a hell of a thing for you to say to me. I'll let Sulham know you're alone.... and where to find you.



Now that's some funny shit.



You hush Ward or Ill tell some secrets on you !



Stories of the Mad Penguin, Now that's some funny shit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:40:59 PM EDT
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