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Posted: 12/22/2004 6:58:50 PM EDT
He was getting stuff out of the back of his truck and heared footsteps running behind him.  Turned around and there were two black guys running owards him and his friend.  One af the assailants was carrying a big maglight.  My roommate bluffed and went for his hip and the two guys very quickly changed direction and ran off.

He's damn lucky they didn't call his bluff.  He's 20 and accordingly doesn't carry.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 4:11:56 AM EDT
I went to school in Chester(Widener U). Muggings on campus by the locals was not an uncommon event.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 5:16:07 AM EDT
Chester? Do you mean New Falluja?
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 5:30:24 AM EDT
I lived on South Street in the early 90's. 7th and South . When the Greek picnic was in full swing. It was very interesting having to escort my girl to her job a few blocks down. She would have been in trouble, a hot white chick was a "wilding " waiting to happen.

It was interesting to see cops just wading into the "Greeks" with there billy clubs. A black girl started to have her clothes ripped off and the Philly PD rescued her.

But I always carried and it was very reassuring. A subtle gesture towards your hip really makes the criminally inlined to wonder.

Did have to draw my piece a couple times .  
     
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 7:49:10 AM EDT
Your right.  I avoid south street during Greek Week  like the damn plauge.  You couldnt pay me to go dow there at that time.  Its out of control. hinking.gif
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 1:39:09 PM EDT
You mean that they're not "Greeks"!
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 2:44:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MattARHBAR:
I went to school in Chester(Widener U). Muggings on campus by the locals was not an uncommon event.



The perps who shot the student  in the back last year for his $6.00, have been caught.  A couple of JV's.  

One delema about Widner; ....no receprocity with Delaware!Therefore,  if you have to take a class in DE the walk thru the woods to the parking lot gets pretty spooky without "Mr. Smith" along.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 3:59:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 4:00:34 PM EDT by MattARHBAR]
Another dilemma about Widener is that they do not allow firearms on campus. When I attended,  security decided to do a search of all the dorm rooms(don't remember why) and found several students in possession of legally owned handguns( all were 21 and over with CCW's). Each of them were expelled.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 7:44:33 PM EDT
always watch your six, guess your buddy will be getting a CCW.  Besides, it's chester; open carry anyone?  Also, Never knew greeks drank hurricane/ colt 45 until I went to the greek picnic.
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 7:30:12 PM EDT
Open carry in Chester is allowed??? I always thought CCW stand for carry CONCEAL weapon. Anyway, i attended Penn State State College and lived in an apartment. It's a really nice town, never have to reach for my waist whenever i was out. I met couple students there who lived in dorm and had to keep their firearms at a local PD.
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 8:10:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MattARHBAR:
Another dilemma about Widener is that they do not allow firearms on campus. When I attended,  security decided to do a search of all the dorm rooms(don't remember why) and found several students in possession of legally owned handguns( all were 21 and over with CCW's). Each of them were expelled.



That's a "policy" issue. As a commuter or, part time student, I think the policy is different from the resident students. The problem is with bringing any gun into the dorms. State law limits the gun restriction to "secondary" and lower schools.
If I'm on campus at night, my Airlight is in my jacket pocket being kept all nice and warm by my hand!...... Chester ain't no picnic!
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 12:22:05 PM EDT
Yeah, we're both widener students, but we live off campus on 24th st (all the cops and firefighters live up in that area).  We also both have a year to go before we can get CCW.  Can't do open carry.  From the campus safety office:

"The unapproved possession, use, or sale of firearms, ammunition, fireworks, major or minor explosives, or any lethal or offensive weapon is strictly forbidden and subject to university discipline as well as criminal sanctions. Approval for use is confined to such specific situations as ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) functions which must be approved by the Director of Campus Safety."

They have another policy for resident students.  Basically, i can't get caught in a campus building or they kick my ass out.  So, concealed definately has to mean concealed.

If you have to go into delaware, get a florida permit.

My roommate, as is the case with most of my friends, started out on the anti-gun side and now is gung-ho about getting his CWP and an assault rifle (i have that effect on people).  I just want him to get training before hand.  He's from St Louis, but since he's on the lease here in PA he shouldn't have any trouble getting a resident CWP.  I'm thinking of sending him to TRI for Tac Pistol 1 over the summer.  He's only 5 hours or so from their facility in TN when back home.  In the meantime i've secured a can of fox labs and trained him in its use.
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 8:08:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

If you have to go into delaware, get a florida permit.

quote]


Are you saying, if I, as a Pa resident, get a Florida CCW permit then, because Pa has receprocity with Fla, and Delaware has receprocity with Fla, I can then legally carry in Delaware?
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 11:34:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2005 11:36:48 PM EDT by clubsoda22]
If you have a non resident florida permit you may carry in any state that has reciprocity with florida except for michigan and new hampshire which require resident permits.  So yes, you may carry in delaware with a non-res florida permit.

BTW, michigan and NH both have reciprocity with PA as well, so you can carry there too.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:28:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tth110:
Open carry in Chester is allowed??? I always thought CCW stand for carry CONCEAL weapon. Anyway, i attended Penn State State College and lived in an apartment. It's a really nice town, never have to reach for my waist whenever i was out. I met couple students there who lived in dorm and had to keep their firearms at a local PD.


You can't open carry in P.A.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 10:37:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:
You can't open carry in P.A.



That's incorrect.  You can't open carry in Philadelphia (unless you have a concealed weapons permit, in which case, Why?).  In the rest of PA, in which chester is included, open carry is perfectly legal.  If you can own a gun, you can open carry, period.  Of course, being that the colleges policy is how it is, that wouldn't work too well.  I'm also not thrilled about the idea of open carry in gangland.  Some hoods might see it as a challenge, not to mention the police harassment issue.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 7:08:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2005 7:48:40 AM EDT by mikepenn33]
The carry laws are the same for the whole state of PA, it's a commonwealth.

Stop believing everything you read on packing.org

If you don't have a CCW you can't carry(on person) in your car, If you try to carry open you will be arrested for insighting a riot and it's just a stupid thing to do unless you're trying to get a reaction out of people.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 9:23:55 AM EDT
You cannot carry in Delaware on a FL permit.

OTOH, if you have a Delaware permit, FL may allow you to carry there, but unless the law has changed very recently (and with Tom Carper followed by Minner as the Governor, I highly doubt it) Delaware does not allow for out of staters to carry in DE.  If you read somewhere there's reciprocity between DE and FL, it is only one way (FL on a DE permit).  I may be wrong and the law may have changed since I lived in DE and ran my gun store there, but if you don't believe me, please cite Delaware law or regulation stating otherwise.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 11:04:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2005 11:04:34 AM EDT by LastDefender]
I got this off the Delaware AG web site.....

www.state.de.us/attgen/main_page/concealedweapons.htm

Regards,
Gary
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 11:31:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LastDefender:
I got this off the Delaware AG web site.....

www.state.de.us/attgen/main_page/concealedweapons.htm

Regards,
Gary



Apparently they did change the law in 2003 - well after I had closed shop and moved out.  Thanks for the link, Gary.  I'm very surprised it got through with Minner in office.  Delaware is a fairly moderate to liberal state and hasn't seen a republican gov for a while (Mike Castle is no republican).  
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 3:20:34 PM EDT
I was under the impression that when the Commonwealth of Pa adopted "shall issue" carry permits that the issue of open carry was no longer in the equation.  I was also told that it can be construed as brandishing a weapon.  Again, I was told this by a member of the State Police Firearms unit out of Harrisburg.

John
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:34:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2005 11:00:36 PM EDT by clubsoda22]
your first mistake was getting legal advice from a cop.  I won't hold it against you however as the job description "Law Enforcement" would leave a reasonable person to  believe that a "Law Enforcement Officer," especially one working for the state firearms unit, would have knoledge of the laws he is tasked with enforcing.

Unfortunately and frighteningly, this is not always the case.  See my below post.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:47:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2005 10:55:59 PM EDT by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:
The carry laws are the same for the whole state of PA, it's a commonwealth.

Stop believing everything you read on packing.org

If you don't have a CCW you can't carry(on person) in your car, If you try to carry open you will be arrested for insighting a riot and it's just a stupid thing to do unless you're trying to get a reaction out of people.



No you can't carry in your car.  Carrying in a car without a licence, even if the gun isn't covered, is still considered the same offence as concealed carry without a licence.  If you unload and case the gun and place it in your trunk, them proceed to uncase and reload the gun at your destination, you have done nothing wrong.

If you are walking down the street with a gun exposed on your hip, they can arrest you for whatever they think they can arrest you for (remember, cops aren't neccecarily legal experts), but they can't convict you with anything and you can get a nice fat check from the lawsuit.


§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.



The law specifically leaves out open carry.  It forbids only carry in a vehicle or concealed carry.

Yes, laws are the same everywhere in PA, except philadelphia.  There is a different section in PA code for carrying firearms in the city of philadelphia


§ 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.

No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:

such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).



You can't be charged with inciting a riot for carrying a gun openly.  They must prove intent.  A person peacefully minding his business with a gun strapped to his hip can not be charged with inciting a riot any more than one can claim a black man peacefully walking down the street who is ambushed and beaten by a half dozen skinheads incited a riot.

Stop believing stuff you make up in your head and certainly stop passing it off as fact.  You're wrong: end of story.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 8:16:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 8:23:57 AM EDT by mikepenn33]

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:
The carry laws are the same for the whole state of PA, it's a commonwealth.

Stop believing everything you read on packing.org

If you don't have a CCW you can't carry(on person) in your car, If you try to carry open you will be arrested for insighting a riot and it's just a stupid thing to do unless you're trying to get a reaction out of people.



No you can't carry in your car.  Carrying in a car without a licence, even if the gun isn't covered, is still considered the same offence as concealed carry without a licence.  If you unload and case the gun and place it in your trunk, them proceed to uncase and reload the gun at your destination, you have done nothing wrong.

If you are walking down the street with a gun exposed on your hip, they can arrest you for whatever they think they can arrest you for (remember, cops aren't neccecarily legal experts), but they can't convict you with anything and you can get a nice fat check from the lawsuit.


§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.



The law specifically leaves out open carry.  It forbids only carry in a vehicle or concealed carry.

Yes, laws are the same everywhere in PA, except philadelphia.  There is a different section in PA code for carrying firearms in the city of philadelphia


§ 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.

No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:

such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).



You can't be charged with inciting a riot for carrying a gun openly.  They must prove intent.  A person peacefully minding his business with a gun strapped to his hip can not be charged with inciting a riot any more than one can claim a black man peacefully walking down the street who is ambushed and beaten by a half dozen skinheads incited a riot.

Stop believing stuff you make up in your head and certainly stop passing it off as fact.  You're wrong: end of story.



Oh I forgot you know everthing . I have over a decade of experience with CCW and have sat in many a court rooms during hearings for gun laws. From what I've seen in your other posts you think you know everything. Why don't you put some of your theories to the test just bring bail money.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:24:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 10:40:55 AM EDT by clubsoda22]
I cited the law for you, what more do you want?  It's clear as day.

Christ, it's like telling Newton to go test his "Crazy theories"

Sorry, but having a CCW for 10 years doesn't make you a law professor, but, if you can show me the case law, i'll concede that you are right and you can gloat over it.

So here's your chance, show me the case law.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 12:27:14 PM EDT
Listen buddy, I don't know much about the laws, but from reading your posts in this forum, you seem to know everything, and don't want to hear anything else from anyone(who all happen to be at least 10 years older and more experienced at this stuff than you).  Since no one here can please you, go make a couple of phone calls to the PA State Police Firearms bureau, or talk to a lawyer and argue with them about it, if the law is "clear as day" as you put it, then there should be no problem getting an answer from the ones who either:
A:  know how to interpret the law cause that's their job, or
B:  know the law cause it's their job to enforce it.
so guess what, instead of arguing here about it, talk to the people who know, and then come back here and post what you found out(if you're not in jail of course), cause your posts are going nowhere fast.....
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 2:48:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 3:23:09 PM EDT by clubsoda22]
cool, last lawyer i talked to does open carry luncheons in the philadeplhia area.  Him and a bunch of other guys from the glocktalk forum all open carry to a restaurant somewhere in suburban philadelphia and have lunch.  I'll pose this question to him and see what he thinks.

Last time i got into an argument about stuff like this (people under 21 but over 18 owning handguns) i went and got a letter from the attorney general, and i still got shit.  I'll do it again, but i have a strong feeling that everyone will believe whatever the fuck they want, even if they're wrong.

The following question has been sent to the Office of the Attorney General of the State of Pennsylvania:

I would like to know if, in the opinion of the Attorney General's Office, I am correctly interpreting PA law as it pertains to carrying a firearm in the state of Pennsylvania.

6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

Am i correct in interpreting this law to mean that a person, who legally possesses a handgun may carry such a handgun exposed (not concealed, commonly referred to as open carry) in a holster, without a permit, as long as he does not enter a vehicle without unloading and securing the firearm in a case, separate from the ammunition as prescribed by law.

I am fully aware of the limitation on open carry in the city of Philadelphia, however i am asking this question as it applies to the rest of the state.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 2:00:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 2:08:45 AM EDT by clubsoda22]
Ok, i went and found some caselaw for you.

The following excerpt comes from Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Micheal Hawkins (1996).  This is the Opinion Announcing the Judgement of the Court as given by Chief Justice Flaherty of the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania.

"In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S.   6108. Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 545 Pa. 279, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed  firearms do not require a license)."

Here's the footnote from Ortiz v. Commonwealth, - Pa. - (1996)

"Only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying any firearm, on a public street or public property, regardless of whether it is unconcealed or concealed.  Throughout the rest of the Commonwealth, a license is only necessary if one is carrying a concealed firearm or is carrying one in a vehicle. 18 Pa. C.S. section 6106(a)."


So, guys, what do you have to say?

I should start taking bets on this kinda stuff.  So far i have a 100% winning record.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 4:16:22 AM EDT
Yea, but the "shall issue" law took effect after 1996, and with the then new state guideline for issuance came the change to open carry.  Again, this is simply hearsy during an FFL/ATF/PA state police seminar several years ago.

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:40:49 AM EDT
all it is is hearsay and rumors.  I posted the current law earlier and as you can see, it hasn't changed since the 1996 interpretations.  Here's a thread on glocktalk addressing these rumors.  rule10b5 is an attorney i know personally and Steve in PA is a vetertan police officer who makes his knoledge of the law a point of pride.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=13ae88406d4a3314e5337e4126871c0e&threadid=324912
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 6:01:47 AM EDT
....Gentelmen, arguing over what "may" happen is an endless exercise.

May I suggest, those who believe "open carry" in Philly and in out lying counties is acceptable- and won't have you "inconvienienced" by the police- plan a day and "open carry" for an afternoon. Then, check back in that evening with the report of any "inconvienence" caused by the police.

Sound fair? ...... Let us know what day you'll be doing this so we can watch for your posts.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 8:42:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 8:45:21 AM EDT by clubsoda22]
we're not arguing over what may happen, we're arguing over what could legally happen.  The answer, obviously, is nothing.  This does not account for police harassment and hysterical morons calling the cops on you, at which point the cops can show up and legally do nothing about it.

You CAN open carry in philly with a concealed weapons permit amd may open carry anywhere else in the state of PA without one.  This is not a guess or assertation, this is a statement of fact backed up by the laws and court cases i have outlined above.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 10:05:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 10:27:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:



+1

Just because you can...doesn't always mean you should....  Something for you to think about.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 9:43:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 9:52:38 PM EDT by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:



Guess once you're proven wrong it becomes very boring to argue.  Remember this next time you want to take up a legal issues with someone and perhaps you'll be a little less condecending.  That way it doesn't look so embarrassing when someone who doesn't "have over a decade of experience with CCW and have sat in many a court rooms during hearings for gun laws" turns out to know a lot more than you thought.

Anyway, no harm done.  You are now well informed.  I'll buy you a beer once i'm old enough to qualify or find a loophole


Just because you can...doesn't always mean you should.... Something for you to think about.


It was never even an option for me.  I go to a college that prohibits guns on its campus.  There's no choice but to carry concealed.  Also, having a gun exposed on your hip is just asking to get shot in the back.  The debate was never ove the wisdom of open carry, but over the legalities.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 6:20:40 AM EDT
You're not right, you're just an ass****. I have better things to do.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 6:46:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 6:48:30 AM EDT by clubsoda22]
For someone who doesn't even have money riding on it, you loose quite sorely.

Since it's over and done with, can't we all just get along?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 7:48:14 AM EDT
Clubsoda22 - in response to "carry under age 21" get a fishing license, a sportsmen's carry permit from the Bucks County Sheriff's office, and a zebco pocket fisherman to keep in your backpack - vola you're legal.

As for the mental masturbation ... you really need to be less of a jerk.  I believe "humility" was suggested.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 9:34:21 AM EDT
lol.  Gone fishin'
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:13:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 11:13:53 AM EDT by slidestop]
This needs to end.  If you can't be civil to each other don't post in the thread.
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