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Posted: 8/1/2009 7:10:06 PM EST
So, I was at one of our local dealers and was looking at 1911. I am looking for something basic, a starter 1911 to see if I even like the platform. I have shot them before and still cannot decide.

So, should I look at the Taurus or RIA? Which is better? The RIA is about 100 dollars less, so I like that. It wont be a carry gun, so I cannot justify, or understand really, why things get so expensive. I do not mean that to offend anyone, I just need taught.

This may all be for not, I may just end up getting a revolver anyway, never had one of those...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:30:24 PM EST
I'd look for a Springfield Aarmory Mil-Spec or WWII GI if I were you. The quality is much higher for about the same price +/- vs. the Taurus.

RIA vs. Taurus, I'd go with the Taurus. Some nice features for the price.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:45:06 PM EST
The Taurus is loaded compared to the RIA, and is, in my opinion, better quality than the low end (and comparatively featureless) SAs.

I like the SA GI model as a close copy of a classic look, but the classic sights aren't terribly useful.

My brother has an older SA and I've got a Taurus. No issues at all with mine.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:08:05 PM EST
If you are going to buy a gun thats design is almost 100 years old then you might as well get the taurus it's the most bang for your buck :-)

T
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:23:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 8:25:19 PM EST by NWRed]
When the question of "should I buy a gun made in the Philipines" comes up I like to tell my story.
I bought a IAI SAM 2000 or whatever they fuck they called it, made in the Philipines. It was missing the front sight, I bought a replacement from the RIA importer since all the 1911 guns are made in the same factory AFAIK and just marketed differently. The dovetail on my replacement sight was slightly different in depth so I took a center punch with the intention of making a raised edge dimple to give it some traction. Using a 12 oz. hammer I knocked a large area of metal into where the barrel bushing would go. Suffice to say the slide wasnt heat treated. I flipped the slide over and using the same hammer and a BRASS 1/4" punch I pushed the dented section back up(no damage to the punch btw). The sight fit perfect and I sold it in the Little Nickel that week. Never again will I buy a Philipine made firearm, I dont care what label it has on it, RIA or any other. Given the choice 'tween a SA and a Taurus for the same price , I'd pick the one with the better sights honestly. The frames are the same, both made in Brazil.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:30:12 PM EST
I'd go with the Taurus. I bought a RIA and like it, but have some minor issues (i.e. Slide catch release, feeding, etc.). Don't get me wrong its a good gun but if i could go back i would do a Springfield G.I. or a Taurus PT 1911 with a rail.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:44:58 PM EST
I should have mentioned the RIA is not the basic model, but the step up with ambi safety and other things I do not remember. The basic model, like the Spingfield GI, is almost 200 less than the basic Taurus. 200 alot of 45 acp. Okay, its SOME 45.

I do appreciate the input, it is thought provoking. Also a bit different from what is on the 1911 forums here..
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:46:37 PM EST
Norinco................
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:51:01 PM EST
I really liked my Taurus 1911, and even though I like Springfield Armory's stuff, I'd go with the Taurus any day of the week before a SA GI model... and either before a RIA.

I doubt the RIA would be a bad purchase, as I had good experiences with one, but I don't think you can get a better bang for the buck than the Taurus.


~Icarus


Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:52:52 PM EST
also fyi SOG has the PT1911's for 499, not sure on shipping but I'd figure thats right around $550 to your door depending on what your ffl charges.

T
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:55:09 PM EST
another option? Where do I find these to check out in person around Tacoma?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:56:03 PM EST
SOG sells guns? I never saw them in there...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:01:27 PM EST
/palmslap

SOG = southern ohio guns, they are a dist in.....southern ohio with really good prices on most guns.

T
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:18:57 PM EST

I wouldn't buy another Taurus, my last one liked to double fire. Sent it back to the factory, got a replacement and sold it on EE.

I love my Norinco 1911, although it's been worked on by more than one dinner table smith. Someday it's going to grow up and get some Trijicon night sights and hard chrome.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:31:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 9:32:16 PM EST by Redcat]
dupe
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 10:08:55 PM EST
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $500 range... Springfield GI.
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $700 range... Springfield Mil-Spec
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $900 range... Springfield Loaded
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $1,100 range... Springfield Operator


Yes, I love my springers... Although I picked up a Kimber Warrior for $800 that I LOVE!!!

I had a RIA, HATED IT. I had a Taurus, HATED IT.

Just my personal experience.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 10:11:51 PM EST
You are the first person how hated there RIA, most just say they liked something better, why did you hate it.

Your are not the first person, even in this thread, who disliked the Taurus.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 10:20:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By soundlzrd:
You are the first person how hated there RIA, most just say they liked something better, why did you hate it.

Your are not the first person, even in this thread, who disliked the Taurus.


It jammed CONSTANTLY and was inaccurate. Although, I will admit, I bought it used knowing it had previous troubles and had been sent back to the factory. I sold it under the same preface, and I think the current owner turned it into a dedicated .22 1911. I understand a lemon every now and then, but I don't think anything that has gone back to the factory should continue to be shit. I replaced it with a Springer GI that has never had a single jam, and is quite accurate (for what it is) out of the box.

Yes, I'm a bit of a Springer fan-boy when it comes to their 1911's, but I own 3 and have shot 5 or more that have been flawless...

This is again, my personal experience... I'm sure SOMEONE will chime in saying just because I've shot a few springers doesn't make me an expert on them...

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:04:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Norinco................



/thread
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:06:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By CrownAndSeven:
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $500 range... Springfield GI.
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $700 range... Springfield Mil-Spec
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $900 range... Springfield Loaded
If you're looking to buy a 1911 in the $1,100 range... Springfield Operator


Yes, I love my springers... Although I picked up a Kimber Warrior for $800 that I LOVE!!!

I had a RIA, HATED IT. I had a Taurus, HATED IT.

Just my personal experience.



If I was going on to spend 900+ I would go with a Kimber!

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 2:35:45 AM EST
RIA is Phillipines?
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:10:10 AM EST
RIA is made by Armscor in the Phillipines.

As for the Taurus, most of the Taurus problems came from a bad batch of safeties. A lot of people had the ambidextrous safety break. The overwhelming majority of complaints about Taurus pt1911s have been about that one piece. I'm not saying that other people haven't had other problems, and I'm not saying Taurus should be excused for making a bad part, but your chances of getting a damn good 1911 for about $200-300 less than a comparably equipped Springfield are pretty good with Taurus.

If you can afford the Springfield, go for it. They seem to be the pistols with the best track record. If you're trying for the best bang for the buck at the lower end of the price range, my vote is for Taurus.

If I could buy any non-custom, non-Colt 1911 at this point my list would be 1. Dan Wesson 2. Springfield 3. Taurus. I'm not a Kimber fan at this point. I think they probably make damn fine pistols, but over the years their QC has been up and down. I'd say you're probably ok with a Kimber, but for the cost, I'd feel better with a Springfield.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:39:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2009 5:41:25 AM EST by huge_gator]
I'm the guy who sold the RIA to C&7. I had it out once and it was a jammomatic then sent it back to the factory. It took about two months to get it back and they said they polished this and replaced that and everything was hunky dory. I didn't have the heart to shoot it again and sold it post haste hoping the new owner would be able to work out the issues.

RIA is cast metal frames and slides which is why they are cheap and break. I'll neve own anything made by them again.

I've never owned a Taurus 1911, but have owned a couple 92's and now have a PT145. Zero function problems with any of them, all work 100%. None were as accurate as I would hope but then again I need to work on my handgun shooting.





OP: Ever get that Saiga converted? I just did mine, if you need any help IM me.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:56:03 AM EST
Have you considered an STI Spartan?

I had the pleasure of firing a range-gun last week and despite being beat to hell (it WAS a range-gun!), it performed flawlessly.

I'm now looking around to buy an STI Ranger.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 6:16:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2009 6:17:16 AM EST by Teleportgrend]
Originally Posted By CrownAndSeven:
I had a RIA, HATED IT. I had a Taurus, HATED IT.

Just my personal experience.



If your hand wasn't so pudgy....


















ETA: I've owned both. Never had a problem with either.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 7:14:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By soundlzrd:
another option? Where do I find these to check out in person around Tacoma?


Mary's and Shizzle
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 8:42:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Marauder777:
Have you considered an STI Spartan?

.

Philipines made frame for certain , I think the slide is also. Hence the price

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 9:20:03 AM EST
I got one of them, best factory trigger on a 1911 I've ever shot, and I HATE SA 1911's, never had one that didn't jam on me. Hell the "Black Stainless" one I shot wouldn't cycle more than 2 rounds in a row, pretty pathetic for a $800 gun.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:00:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By stratfordwill:
RIA is made by Armscor in the Phillipines.

As for the Taurus, most of the Taurus problems came from a bad batch of safeties. A lot of people had the ambidextrous safety break. The overwhelming majority of complaints about Taurus pt1911s have been about that one piece. I'm not saying that other people haven't had other problems, and I'm not saying Taurus should be excused for making a bad part, but your chances of getting a damn good 1911 for about $200-300 less than a comparably equipped Springfield are pretty good with Taurus.

If you can afford the Springfield, go for it. They seem to be the pistols with the best track record. If you're trying for the best bang for the buck at the lower end of the price range, my vote is for Taurus.

If I could buy any non-custom, non-Colt 1911 at this point my list would be 1. Dan Wesson 2. Springfield 3. Taurus. I'm not a Kimber fan at this point. I think they probably make damn fine pistols, but over the years their QC has been up and down. I'd say you're probably ok with a Kimber, but for the cost, I'd feel better with a Springfield.



I had this problem with my Taurus. the safety didn't break, but kept working its way out of the frame. Turns out the male side of the dovetail where the 2 halves join was too thick. 30 seconds of filing and it's perfect now.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:10:00 AM EST
Of the choices you list, RIA hands down. They're very well made for a "low-end" 1911, actually shampoo a great "base gun" from which to build a custom, if you ever wanted to. They're known to be very reliable, and are a great bang for the buck.

Taurus on the other hand, is a crap shoot. I've owned 2 Taurus guns, still own one (and carry it everyday). They were fine, the one I still have (a revolver) is a great handgun. But I got lucky, as you'll see all kinds of bad reports on them, here and there, even with their 1911s.

And I absolutely DETEST that idiotic safety lock they have built directly into the hammer of their 1911. If I got one, I'd replace that before I even ever shot it.

Definitely go RIA, that's my recommendation.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:19:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Marauder777:
Have you considered an STI Spartan?

I had the pleasure of firing a range-gun last week and despite being beat to hell (it WAS a range-gun!), it performed flawlessly.

I'm now looking around to buy an STI Ranger.


I had not, I only came up with these two because of price alone. My gun money isnt what it used to be.

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By soundlzrd:
another option? Where do I find these to check out in person around Tacoma?


Mary's and Shizzle


Well, I was at Mary's which is where I saw the RIA , Taurus and cididel(I thinik that was it).

That is also where I was told I should see what everyone experiance has been in WHTF.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:21:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:
Taurus on the other hand, is a crap shoot. I've owned 2 Taurus guns, still own one (and carry it everyday). They were fine, the one I still have (a revolver) is a great handgun. But I got lucky, as you'll see all kinds of bad reports on them, here and there, even with their 1911s.

And I absolutely DETEST that idiotic safety lock they have built directly into the hammer of their 1911. If I got one, I'd replace that before I even ever shot it.



I have also read those reports, which is why I was told to ask you all.

And that hammer safety is werid. Are you supposed to carry cocked and locked but ask mister bad guy for a second to find your key
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:24:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By soundlzrd:
Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:
Taurus on the other hand, is a crap shoot. I've owned 2 Taurus guns, still own one (and carry it everyday). They were fine, the one I still have (a revolver) is a great handgun. But I got lucky, as you'll see all kinds of bad reports on them, here and there, even with their 1911s.

And I absolutely DETEST that idiotic safety lock they have built directly into the hammer of their 1911. If I got one, I'd replace that before I even ever shot it.



I have also read those reports, which is why I was told to ask you all.

And that hammer safety is werid. Are you supposed to carry cocked and locked but ask mister bad guy for a second to find your key


Its just a built in child safety lock, I've never used mine so its never bothered me. And you you carry them in the condition pictured above
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:32:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By usnpjs:
Originally Posted By soundlzrd:
Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:
Taurus on the other hand, is a crap shoot. I've owned 2 Taurus guns, still own one (and carry it everyday). They were fine, the one I still have (a revolver) is a great handgun. But I got lucky, as you'll see all kinds of bad reports on them, here and there, even with their 1911s.

And I absolutely DETEST that idiotic safety lock they have built directly into the hammer of their 1911. If I got one, I'd replace that before I even ever shot it.



I have also read those reports, which is why I was told to ask you all.

And that hammer safety is werid. Are you supposed to carry cocked and locked but ask mister bad guy for a second to find your key


Its just a built in child safety lock, I've never used mine so its never bothered me. And you you carry them in the condition pictured above


Yeah, it's not meant to be carried with that lock engaged.........................it's just an idiotic gimmick that we see more and more of in these letigious times. Like the Springfield ILS, the lock on S&W guns, etc. Taurus has those on all their new guns, has for some time.

Just meant to render the gun inoperable if you so choose. Fuck that, it's still not "secure" just because it won't work at the moment. Any other Taurus owner can make it work..............it's just a small hex-head screw, with a post in the middle. sort of like the "tamper-proof torx" screws. Come to think of it, a tamper-proof T-10 just might fit it.

Haven't had any problems with the one in my revolver. It's in the back of the frame, don't even really notice it. I'd remove it, if it didn't leave a hole back there.

On their 1911s though, being a 1911 guy myself, I can't stand the idea of that lock being in the hammer, a critical moving part of the weapon. Were it me, I'd replace the hammer on any Taurus 1911 I were to get.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:34:38 AM EST
Yeah, I know it isn't ment to be used that way, I guess I just dont understand those locks at all. I like simple, I think that is why I like Glocks and Ak's.

Dont worry, I am starting to branch out.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:37:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Norinco................

Knew one guy who had the Norinco. He loved it.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:37:36 AM EST
This would be a lot more fun with a poll!
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:38:55 AM EST
Glock 30 nuff said
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 11:38:55 AM EST
Glock 30 nuff said
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:09:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tweak:
nuff said


Aperently not.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:46:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By AcesFull:
Originally Posted By Tweak:
nuff said


Aperently not.





Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:49:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:49:51 PM EST
But I already have a glock...

Maybe I will check out the N one(I cannot remember how to spell it)
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:51:48 PM EST
North China Corporation?

We need a lock here.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:53:48 PM EST
norocio or something.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:58:06 PM EST
NORINCO, North China Corporation.

Cooper said that, "A rifle is the difference between a citizen and a subject."
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 1:32:53 PM EST
Thanks for letting me know, I just heard it and liked it.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 1:37:59 PM EST
By all accounts Norinco 1911s are good-to-go. Well made, good steel. Alot of custom guns have been built up out of them too.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 2:14:05 PM EST
So Norinco or SIA.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 2:33:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By soundlzrd:
So Norinco or SIA.


The list of decent 1911s is long, the list of "no fucking way" ones is pretty short ( anything made in the Philipines for me is a no go). Best of luck on finding a cheap Norinco. I used to have a NIB one about 4 years ago, sold it for $400 ish IIRC. No idea what they sell for now, but I'm guessing more then $400. Another decent base gun would be a Argentine "1927 Colt Sistema". Damn good guns with some nice retro features like the checkering on the hammer and triggers etc. One of the few guns I actually regret getting rid of. Again tho, they used to sell for $300, now I have no idea what they are worth. Doublestar frames are $99, used quality slides were running $100 when I was building 1911s ( ParaOrd and SA take offs) a few years ago. A Colt 1991 for $500 would be another decent base gun choice. If you start with a quality frame and slide, the rest is just parts that you can change as suits you.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:38:10 PM EST
I'd choose the RIA personally. I say that because I have one and bought it with the intent of learning how the 1911 works and if I messed up anything, then oh well. BUT I've been pleasantly surprised at how well it works. Not a single problem (other than bad mags, feed lips so wide they pinged my hammer bow, and wouldn't even fit into someones Kimber at the range), in several thousand rounds of shooting. I swapped in some wilson parts, and have since replaced those with my older springfield hammer, sear, and dissconnector. I never got Wilson parts fitted, so the trigger pull sorta sucked. Armscor is an ISO 9001 company so their product is consistent.
And if I can't break the thing, then it's not likely to break anytime soon! Well, maybe if we give it to surferboi as his talent is even greater than mine!

Armscor, the maker of RIA as well as the older Charles Daly, and High Standard isn't the only Fillipino gun maker. Metro Arms is another. And I assume there is at least a third lurking around somewhere.

I've hanled a large number of the Taurus 1911s and the trigger pull on them is very nice out of the box.

Not sure about which would be more accurate, you'd have to find a better shooter than me to tell you that. Shouldn't be too hard though.

Either one is a lot of gun for the money. And you can also get a RIA Tactical if you want the ambi safety, beavertail grip saftey, better sights, etc. The only thing it doesn't have is a light rail that is an option for the Taurus. And some people don't like the smooth grips either.
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