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Posted: 8/6/2004 3:42:57 PM EDT
These jack asses won't do a private transfer for me (M1A SOCOM 16), wanna know why? Because THEY sell them in their store.

Their attitude has always dedpended on who you happen to talk to at that very moment, it ranges from piss poor to friendly and helpful.

I will never buy a thing from them again, and people wonder why local gun stores go out of business
Link Posted: 8/6/2004 10:16:05 PM EDT

By law in California, they have to do the transfer if it is a private transfer between two California residents and both parties are in the store. It is $25 for the DROS and they can charge up to $10 for a processing fee, with any amount billed for storage fees. (Yes, old B&B got in trouble for charging storage fees, but later it was found that Bill Lockyer neglected to establish a limit on storage fees, and the case was dropped).

If it was a private transfer and both parties were in the store, might there be some other subjectivity that is obstructing the transfer? Was it a CA rifle in which the muzzle brake is CA approved? If not, they won't transfer it. Did you or the buyer have any issue of identification not being current or not from California (which is Federal law). If so, they won't do the transfer.

You did not go into detail on the nature of your transfer. If the following is not true, ignore the info - if it is true, it's not a slight at you, just economic facts of small business gun dealers: If you bought it used from a non-dealer in another state, or were ordering it from another dealer in another state to save a few bucks, there is no requirement for them to comply with your wishes. If they do receive the transfer for you from elsewhere, expect to pay a hefty transfer fee anyway, between $65.00 to $80.00 (which most dealers will charge). If this is the scenario, I can't say that I blame them. Transferring a gun in CA is a lot of paperwork, and a lot of filing. The $25 DROS fee does not cover their labor, nor their loss of a sale to you, nor their loss of sales to other potential customers in the store, as they spend the time in the store assisting you in filling out the DROS, filling out the 4473, logging that info into the State DOJ computer, taking your thumbprint, having you fill out the safe/gun-lock affidavit, nor storing that rifle on their premises (taking up valuable space) for 10 days. then they must wait on you again when you come back in to pick it up. I understand you may have bought it elsewhere to save on taxes, or you got a cheaper price from a dealer selling it used or possibly has no store in another state, and his prices are lower due to no overhead. However in CA, you must have a storefront as an FFL. When people buy rifles out of state to save a few bucks and skip the sales tax, merely to save about $50.00 - $100.00, THAT is what is putting CA dealers out of business. It only hurts local business, and in the long run, you really don't get the advantage of warranty service and guarantees that come with buying locally. Please take no offense; it's just the dealer's point of view on this matter that you should view it from. If this is not the transfer you were attempting, then pay no heed at all. However, if you call around, you will find that most dealers will charge up to $80 to receive out-of-state guns.

Often, a rare rifle comes up that you can only get out-of-state, and maybe nobody in CA has one available. Let's say an H&K 770 or a mint Winchester Pre-64 chambered in .375 H&H, by example. Rettings would handle it without question. But it's good to have a friend that is an FFL if you do this often, to save on the $60 - $80 fees. But a Springfield SOCOM ? That's relatively common and Rettings has plenty in stock they could have sold to you as new. In fact, I fully expect Turner's to be selling them this fall for an extremely good price, as soon as Springfield can manuafacture a surplus of them that allows Turner's to buy a bulk quantity - right now it's only 1's and 2's.

Rettings is one of the largest dealers of Springfield Armory firearms in the state of California; they are one of the country's top sellers and often carry specialty issue series Springfields that not even stores in other parts of the country can obtain. They were one of the first to have a Whitefeather in the store as general stock. When Springfield released the new run of M1 Garands, the first 450 were manufactured using Danish BREDA receivers (which are forged, not cast, as the current Springfield made receivers are made). Rettings received 20 of the first 450 before anybody anywhere else. They have a strong contract and great relationship with Springfield.

It must seem clear that to some degree, I am in their defense. I have never had a bad deal there, and the customer service has always been excellent. I'm not shilling for them, because every dealer has an off day, and every employee has an off day - may be that was the day you were in the store. But Rettings is extremely reputable, so I am curious as to what went wrong or as to the details of the transfer.

You may want to call Ted at LA Guns in West Hollywood (on Sunset strip)- that's the next closest dealer I can think of if you are looking for a dealer to do the transfer in that approximate area. I would have told you to use Red Star across the street from Rettings, but they went out of business two months ago - last auction of store goods was 7/26/04 and everything went for pennies on the dollar. Sad. And they did transfers for the $25, no questions asked!

Link Posted: 8/7/2004 1:34:02 AM EDT
They've been good to my friends..

Offered to sell one a un-packaged pistol grip that was all ruffed up and dirty instead of the one in the package.. and no incentive..


Decided to shoot my friends Wilson Combat CQB ($2000?) that he ordered.. and leave the cleaning for him!

I bought one gun from them and it went well though, from the one guy I consider helpful and nice..

I'll be going to Gun World in Burbank from now on tho...
Link Posted: 8/7/2004 6:43:38 AM EDT
It's a Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM, it's CA compliant. First they thought I bought it from another FFL, I explained it's a private transfer, the seller can't ship it to them so he's having his FFL do it. I could hear in the background of one guy asking the person to whom I was talking "what kind of rifle is it?", upon hearing it's something THEY sell, they say they won't do it because THEY sell them in their store.

I don't mind paying the fees, I ended up having another store in Agoura do it for me for $85, but my time is worth more than that and so is theirs, no complaints here.

It's an impulse buy, I would have paid full price for it except a buddy found a seller in La Mirada, CA. selling his brand new M1A SOCOM for medical reasons. They may have thought I was trying to save a buck or two by not giving them my business. I have a Shrike upper on order, and an HK21 in the works ($8K when all is said and done on that one), I'm not an average joe that shops for bargains. They have alienated me for the last time. Yes I do see they have the right to refuse, then so I will voice my objections by not spending money there anymore. In effect, they're penny wise and pound foolish, they could have (they did in the past 20 years) got a lot more business from me.
Link Posted: 8/7/2004 10:46:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2004 11:04:07 AM EDT by Skunkworks45]
I've been wanting a Shrike upper for some time now! That's awesome! Good luck with it. I have my mag feed AR's but due to the situation with SB-23, and my insatiable diet for more AR's, I bought a single shot DPMS lower for a really good deal, and I have batted around throwing the Shrike on top of it simply to say "Screw California"! My other intention with the DPMS was to put an Ultramag .50BMG upper on it (which is mag fed so you don't have to crack it open to load). Both are in the same price range, but maybe I'll just get both!!

Your story didn't entirely surprise me - I will agree; some of the guys at Rettings do have an attitude - it's not necessarily a beligerant hostile attitude like the guys at B&B use to have, but it's not a helpful one either. Often it is just forgetful. It's even worse with new people to the store. I am sure that regulars get treated differently. I've been going there for 8 years and have never had trouble, but I only deal with 2 specific salesmen there and avoid the few that are problematic or that can't remember me from the last time I purchased. I figure if I am laying down a few thousand bucks, no matter what gun store, and if I come in just two weeks later to buy something else, and I do this FREQUENTLY, you had better damn well remember me and not give me attitude when I ask pertinent questions. I guess any business is like that, whether it's guns, cars, artwork, or carpeting! With Retting's, I wonder if they might become more flippant or arrogant now that there is no other gun store across the street , or even in the area for the next 8 miles? Bummer. I call it the B&B effect!

Good luck with your M1A SOCOM.

P.S. Skammy; Wilson Combat CQB's arrive from Wilson fully tested - powder, dirt and all. Even some wholesalers do a testing before they ship the gun. Maybe your friend confused this for Rettings having shot it? I've never known Rettings to test any guns they bring in unless they buy it direct as used or requested by hte buyer to test them, and I don't think that the Wilson is rare or curious enough of a gun that they would be inclined to test fire it if new. They sell them regularly in the store, and hundreds of other guns a week. They really don't have much time to shoot what comes in unless requested to do so. I would think they would be more inclined to test the Ed Browns, Bolands, Nolins, Les Baers, or Performance Center guns that come in. But they don't mess with those either.

Link Posted: 8/7/2004 5:26:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skunkworks45:
I've been wanting a Shrike upper for some time now!

What's a Shrike upper?
Link Posted: 8/7/2004 8:24:21 PM EDT
Belt fed upper- totally bitchin' Technically, Ares Shrike.

Go here:


or here for my other option I was considering:


Being that I already have a fully dedicated .50BMG rifle, I might buy the Shrike first.

Link Posted: 8/7/2004 10:04:48 PM EDT
i think the shrike system looks very awesome, and i even saw some video on it awhile back. i haven't heard the greatest things about the company. i have heard of quite a few people that ordered one but are still waiting...
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:04:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 6:03:25 PM EDT
have they shipped those damn things yet?

and would anyone know if theyd work with the mag stuck in position (a la fab-10?)
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:56:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2004 8:00:48 PM EDT by Duffy]
Not for a few more months, but I have no doubt it will come out. I however do doubt if Ares would go through the trouble of getting that SAW box only lower CA certified.

Paul, do they not like orientals or somethin'?
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 7:51:05 PM EDT
"I have a Shrike upper on order"
I have heard about these a year or so ago. Are you sure they aren't a fable? lol
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:28:06 AM EDT
With a shrike, aren't you still limited to a ten round link in California?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:28:09 AM EDT
unless you had assembled and purchased the links prior to the ban on hi cap magazines....

Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:27:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 11:01:58 AM EDT
With a Shrike upper and a single shot lower, wouldn't you be creating an assault weapon by Kali law? [semi auto with the ability to accept a detachable mag (linked ammo) and pistol grip] I know this is a grey area since the lower is the firearm and not the upper but DOJ might make an exception just to fuck with us and consider the upper the actuall firearm in this case. Do I want one? Hell yes! But I will wait till I see one first and not just on the history channel!
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:29:25 PM EDT
I've had unremarkable to inferences I was a criminal. "We won't transfer a stripped FAL upper to you because we know what you are going to do with it." I built a CaliBan FAL with it.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:29:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:

I will never buy a thing from them again, and people wonder why local gun stores go out of business

Because you buy guns from elsewhere instead of them?

Why should they send their own business elsewhere??

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:57:34 AM EDT
The way FFL's are going out of business it's going to get worse. I sold a FAB10 lower to a private party through a dealer in San Gabriel -zero problems.

Try OLD WEST GUNS in zip code 91745. Do a yahoo yellow pages search. Small mom and pop store that charges a very reasonable fee for CA legal transfers.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:03:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Duffy:

I will never buy a thing from them again, and people wonder why local gun stores go out of business

Because you buy guns from elsewhere instead of them?

Why should they send their own business elsewhere??


Because it's NOT THIER BUSINESS! The business went elsewhere and so will future business They won't make every sale no matter what they do, but if they treat the customers right they will get return business. Given many stores have a minimal charge for credit cards but any store will lose money on a $1 sale. So if you are in a business which deals mostly with the public should you charge a minimum? Like $5?

They need to offer what the internet can't. That is service, they will never beat the prices.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 8:30:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Why should they send their own business elsewhere??

That's what I'm still trying to figure out.
They are losing a lot of money in the long run doing that.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:19:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 4:25:00 PM EDT by Duffy]
I value my time as well as that of others, I paid $85 for the transfer (including DROS) at Agoura Shooting Range, and I paid it gladly. I agree that since local stores can't better prices found on the Internet, they need to do what mom and pop shops do best: service.

As to buying guns from elsewhere instead of their shop, I did not go out of my way to "screw" them out of the sale, it just happened I got a good deal from a private seller, but it doesn't matter to them. They never asked. They're shortsighted and penny wise and pound foolish. I have spent quite a bit in their store since the mid 80s, that should count as something but it doesn't matter to them either. They never bothered to find out who I was and how much business I did give them.

So they refused a service worth $50, just to lose more in the long run. Now they don't have that $50, nor will they have my future business.

I brought my Mercedes to Simonson Mercedes in Santa Monica for warranty service today. That I didn't buy the car from them has never come up or seemed to matter, they treated me with courtesy and professionalism, gave me a nice ML340 for a loaner to drive while they performed the service. This then is just the opposite of Retting, not only does Simonson nurture potential future customers, they get referals from me.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 11:33:21 PM EDT
I have been to Martin B's quite a few times but I NEVER find a deal there, they seem to always follow MSRP. They have a lot of cool stuff to look at and that's good enough for the moneywise (read: poor bastard) shopper to feel-up on the gear and buy it elsewhere.

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