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Posted: 9/30/2004 9:43:47 AM EST
Hi everyone. New to the forum, been in AZ my entire life. For me the desert is where it's at!!!!

I love this state and I love to just go out to the desert and blow off a few hundred rounds while enjoying what is the beauty of God's desert. I was curious how many fellow Valley residents prefer the desert over, say Ben Avery. While I love open desert shooting, these idiots that litter and shoot bottles are just plain rude and annoying. Kind of ruins the whole experience.

This weekend the girlfriend and 3 kids and I are heading out to Table Mesa Road to go try to pick up some of the litter and brass and stuff. I might do SOME shooting, cause the kids LOVE my Kimber, but I was hoping for just a cleanup.

I'm not trying to recruit any help, just wanted to introduce myself and see how many people shoot in public areas like Table Mesa versus the range.

For the future, would anyone be interested in going out to the Rio Verde for some fishing/camping/shooting or possibly Quail hunting? I have very few friends who shoot and would love to make some!

IM me if you'd like my phone #, I'd be happy to give it to you. The ol lady is testing in Nov for Phoenix Police Department, so if anyone would like to make it a "family outing" I'm certain it would be a great experience!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:53:15 AM EST
Welcome to AR15, and more notably to the Hometown section Richard!
We usually schedule get togethers now that the summer has given up on baking us for another year.
Desert rules, I have a spot about 5 minutes from my home (Florence), so we don't do much range shooting.
There's a lot of ARFCOM members that go out to Table Mesa, I'm sure they'll be along in a little bit.
If not, we'll probably be having a meet sometime in October.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:24:35 PM EST
Can you still shoot near Rio Verde?

I thought it was closed to shooting when this went into effect.

The Tonto closures suck. There's no shooting east of I-17 at Table Mesa anymore either.

www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/recreation/rogs/visitorinfo/RecShootingROG.pdf
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:27:55 PM EST
With the exception of Training classes (not on the main range), I'd rather NOT go shoot than shoot at Ben Average!

I hate punching holes in paper and the whole range vibe. Yuck.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:36:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
With the exception of Training classes (not on the main range), I'd rather NOT go shoot than shoot at Ben Average!

I hate punching holes in paper and the whole range vibe. Yuck.



I agree 100%. I find no fun in shooting at paper while standing still. I own guns only for self defense and prefer to train/practice for their intended purpose.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:45:16 PM EST
We have plenty of desert in Nevada. I prefer it, but sometimes you get hasseled by the "desert police". You just pick up and go a few miles down.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:48:34 PM EST

Richardh247,

Welcom to AR15.com Arizona Board. You will lean alot from these guys. Bunch of great folks. Dont belive all the rumors.

Desert over the Range(Natzi's) anyday.

Besides ranges dont like Tannerite!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:22:37 PM EST
Desert always. I've been trying to haul out some junk every time I go out too! I feel outnumbered by white trash idiots who shoot computer monitors and 80's stereo equipment, however.

And why does every dumb fuck with a shotgun need to leave hundreds of hulls on the ground?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:45:32 PM EST

I have a spot about 5 minutes from my home (Florence),


Mmmmmmmmm.....A&M White Pizza w/ some wings.......
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:22:05 PM EST
I only go to Ben Avery when I am sighting things in.

I havn't found a spot off Table Mesa that I really like to shoot at, (even though I have been going out there for more than 10 years) but I do still go out there when I just need to go shoot. It is getting really littered with trash and people on quads.


I found a spot off bell road past the white tanks thats not all messed up and has almost no traffic.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:29:51 PM EST



Welcome Rich! I've been plinking Table Mesa Rd. for eight years now. Desrt Shooting Rules!

Tannerite Friendly!

Range shooting is for benchrest Nazi's. Range is only good for two and three gun shooting at Rio Salada Range.

Us North Phoenix ARFCOMer's have had a couple little shoots a Table Mesa Rd.

We usually meet up at Sportsmans Warehouse parking lot on Sunday mornings. Then drive up together. It's always a family shoot and bar-b-q.

Now that the weather is getting cooler, a shoot should be coming up.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:46:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Carbine10:
Us North Phoenix ARFCOMer's have had a couple little shoots a Table Mesa Rd.

We usually meet up at Sportsmans Warehouse parking lot on Sunday mornings. Then drive up together. It's always a family shoot and bar-b-q.

Now that the weather is getting cooler, a shoot should be coming up.




Hmmmmmm. What 'cha got in mind? I have a new 700 that's had nary a round through it and I've had it since June.

AB
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:13:14 PM EST
I've always have some spare trash bags in the scout, I'll I need is a reason to through in a tent & cooler & I won't forget to bring a few rounds as well.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:16:20 PM EST
Hey guys, I'm up for something at Table Mesa as long as I'm home for a weekend from college.

We shot west, not east, of I-17, right?


Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
The Tonto closures suck. There's no shooting east of I-17 at Table Mesa anymore either.

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:51:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By teknical:
Hey guys, I'm up for something at Table Mesa as long as I'm home for a weekend from college.

We shot west, not east, of I-17, right?





West, yes. How 'bout Sunday AM round 8ish, usual meetin' spot? Who's down?

AB
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:25:31 AM EST
WOW!!! I never expected so many replies! Damn am I glad I found this site (or, rather, it found me, LOL). I just wish they had the email notification feature when replies are posted like Glocktalk has. Oh well.

You guys are right on the money speaking about the frustration of closures because of idiots who have no shooting sense. I am afraid that I might, indeed, find the RioVerde closed. I know they were discussing doing so; had a long conversation with the game warden 2 years ago while hunting/fishing with the family. He drives up next to my truck, and we were doing some fishing, taking a break from Quail shooting. So I approach and we go through the cursory "Catch anything?" "Yeah, a few bass." I go to give him my fishing license.

Nope. He says he doesn't need to see it. Odd. Doesn't want to see the ol' lady's, either. I asked him if he wanted to check the plug in my shotgun, which was sitting on top of one of the truck boxes. Nope. Hunting liscenses? Nope. Wanna see the quail I bagged? SURE!!! Never mind I hadn't bothered to leave one wing attached, he just said I was the only one he had talked to that day who wasn't a prick. Checked my 3 dollar per day permit and then we sat and talked for 1/2 hour.

Explanation: He was making sure we weren't the typical morons doing something stupid he was accustomed to. People with no ethics are ruining it for those of us with some sense. Rant off.

I do paper punching, but I pick up my trash, and I put in cover/concealment/draw from concealed drills. I have a real hard time with this, cause my right leg had reconstructive surgery and one of the pins broke, which has me set up for another surgery. So for now, most of my shooting is from the stationary position.

Instead of computer monitors, etc, I found some fun targeting for the kids that give instant gratification. We save all our gatorade bottles, put food coloring in and fill them up with water and then freeze them. Set them up with a trash bag in tow, strip the plastic off and throw away, and when one is hit it explodes with ice everywhere. Kids love it, no mess, no cost sans a few drops of food coloring. Never hafta pick up any more of our trash (cause there isn't any). I police the brass and the kids each hafta get at least one full bag of others' trash, their "price" for me taking them shooting so they can watch things go boom. Teaches them to shoot, and to do so responsibly, and to take some inititiative to go the extra mile.

I go to the west side of Table Mesa once a week, when possible. Bought another 100 in each 45 and 38, so I guess I'm shooting, after all. LOL, why the hell not, going out there anyway, right? Besides, like I tell the ol lady to justify the cost of the rounds, if my guns don't cycle ammo on a very regular basis, erosion can kick in. This throws off the sights and the kenuter valve on the bolt will freeze. LOL, you should see the looks I get when I employ that line of BS.

I usually take a left at the first V, then follow down to where the locked gate is. There is only room for one, so we are rarely bothered. So if ya'll see the red Ford F150 X cab with silver truck boxes ringing the bed, wave me down to say hi! I am hoping to meet some really interesting friends from this site! God bless you, my brothers (and sisters) in arms!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:12:34 AM EST
Heck, I'd be down for Sunday Morning.

I don't leave trash behind because I shoot at steel. Too exspensive to leave behind. We sometimes throw skeet out at Table Mesa but all we leave behind then is small pieces of orange clay, which is supposed to biodegrade. My friends aren't always as enviromentally friendly, but they just usually shoot at the stuff others left behind.

I love Ben Avery though. It is one of the finest ranges in the country, and we need to support it even if we rarely use it. The anti-guns are after it and to lose it would be a shame. Range time has its place just as desert shooting. SAVE BEN AVERY!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:21:00 AM EST
They are trying to close Ben Avery???? WTF???? Is that because of Anthem, or what? I hadn't heard of it before now and will do all I can to help em out!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:15:16 AM EST
Far east valley checking in. Table Mesa is a 100 mile round trip for me-- I head out to an area of forest service land around the Queen Valley area past AZSTAN.

...and it's ALWAYS desert unless I've got a damn good reason to NEED to use a range. Why..?

1. "CEASE FIRE!" Just as soon as you start shooting, someone yells for a cease fire. At this point, some 85+ year old guy toddles out there with a replacement target and duct tape from 1973. ... Unfortunately, he's not strong enough to tear the tape himself and his knife is back at the shooting bench-- 100 yards back.....

2. Morons; lots and lots of morons. I dislike having the business end of a firearm pointed at me. It's especially disconcerting when someone decides to shoot over my head (and I'm not prepared or expecting it beforehand) when I'm shooting prone.

3. Money. Using the desert is free- using a range is not.

4. Attitudes or "Why must you shoot THAT here?" I've encountered 'gentlemen shooters' who look down their noses at folks with AR's, AK's, etc. If they wish to do so to individual who spray shit everywhere and hit other peoples' targets, fine. However, way too many do so only because I don't have a nifty tri-barrel Browning 12ga superduper $12,000.00 purple label and my targets aren't "shot on the rise." Tally ho, assholes. In addition, I've also had trouble with range management due to being a CCW instructor. No names, but there's a large east valley range that can kiss my..... Err, anyhow...

5. People. I can't explain it, but I seem to GENERALLY meet cooler shooters with more interesting firearms in the desert than I do at ranges. (shrugs)

Mike
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 10:17:28 AM EST
So just becuase you can't shoot what you want, when you want, and in a safe direction you are somehow exempt from the assholes-r-us clause? What a pitiful excuse to get out the range fees and jerkoffs that habitually feel the need to break all 4 rules of safety simutaneously!

I suppose you pick up your brass, never point in an unsafe direction, and clean your weapons when done too? Huh? Huh?

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:50:41 AM EST
I live in Anthem which is about 3 miles from Ben Avery and about 5 miles from Table Mesa Rd. I usually go to Ben Avery about once every 2 months and spend about 4 hours there. I went to Table Mesa Rd once and driving in I passed two groups of shooters who were both drinking beer and shooting PARALLEL to the freeway NOT against a backstop! Luckily (?) they weren't shooting TOWARDS the other group (must've been about 500 yds apart and not within visual range). I quickly (and carefully) left Table Mesa Rd and haven't had the "guts" to return since. I did see a LOT of garbage while driving in and back out though...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:53:38 AM EST
I'd have to agree with prebans on #1-#4 but I haven't shot in the desert to confirm #5.

Queen Valley sounds like a cool place but it's pretty far out there for a Chandler guy like me.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:50:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZERIC:
I'd have to agree with prebans on #1-#4 but I haven't shot in the desert to confirm #5.

Queen Valley sounds like a cool place but it's pretty far out there for a Chandler guy like me.



Ill confirm # 5. I have made some Awesome Friends out at AZSTAN.

These people will help you on what ever you need.

You guys know who you are! Hats off to you all!

Never made the friends at Rio Salto Range, that I have at the ARFCOM shots and AZSTAN!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:09:53 PM EST


8ish Sunday sounds good to me.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:21:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Carbine10:

8ish Sunday sounds good to me.



WooHoo!!!!!

AB
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:46:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:
5 minutes from my home (Florence)



No way, my Stepmom and my Cousin run the L&B. I was born and raised in Florence, just like most of the Alston clan. Maybe we can hook up to do some shooting sometime down there. IM me if interested.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:18:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By prebans:
it's ALWAYS desert unless I've got a damn good reason to NEED to use a range. Why..?

1. "CEASE FIRE!"

2. Morons

3. Money.

4. Attitudes

5. People.

Mike



I agree with everything but #5. I hate people at ranges and in the desert. I pretty much hate everybody. And I figger they're in the desert, cuz they're nuts like me.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:46:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 6:48:00 PM EST by azski]
What do you know!? I use to live in Florence too. I actually met my wife there while I was working at Pinal County Hospital back in 1984.

We use to drive up to box canyon on weekends to plink by the old abandoned mines. Had TONS of fun there.

If you ever want to put a shoot together some weekend let me know. I would love to go back there and see how it has changed (we moved in 1986). When we lived thereI don't believe they had even 1 red light and no home delivery of the mail.

I will ALWAYS have great memories of Florence! 'F' mountain, Gibby's, Lindy's, My Office, River Bottom, Coyote burgers and of course, Foot's Ice Cream shop.

Command 5 and Murphy's Romance were filmed in Florence while we lived there.

azski
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:44:08 AM EST
Things don't change much here in Florence.
I moved here in 84, and remember everything you mentioned.
remember Command 5, was an extra in Murphy's Romance (met J. Garner) still take the jeep up to Box canyon, and stop for a beer at the River Bottom.
Since 84 we have added a McDonalds (last month), TWO (woo hoo!) stop lights, and a Burger King.



No way, my Stepmom and my Cousin run the L&B. I was born and raised in Florence, just like most of the Alston clan. Maybe we can hook up to do some shooting sometime down there. IM me if interested.


Haa!, it's a small world ain't it?
I used to work with Mike before he went to California, and have partied more than once at the house on the hill!
Hell, we probably know each other already.
IM sent.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 8:17:02 AM EST
I have always prefered open field shooting or semideveloped ranges. Open areas with maybe a berm. The distance is not known and makes you practice actual ranging as well as being fun.

Having a range nazi over your shoulder for some "supposed infraction of the PC rules of shooting" ie rate of fire, spoils the entire visit and I will not go shoot there.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:58:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By richardh247:
So just becuase you can't shoot what you want, when you want, and in a safe direction you are somehow exempt from the assholes-r-us clause? What a pitiful excuse to get out the range fees and jerkoffs that habitually feel the need to break all 4 rules of safety simutaneously!

I suppose you pick up your brass, never point in an unsafe direction, and clean your weapons when done too? Huh? Huh?




Actually, YES!

Mike
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