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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:28:41 PM EDT
Today I went out to TCGC with some buddies and was treated like we were terrorist's by this Female Range Officer.

I understand that there are rules to be followed to keep evereyone safe but I dont think it's cool that if you make a mistake that you get talked to like your a juvenile moron!

Has anyone else ever had a problem out there?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:34:08 PM EDT
May I ask what you did?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:36:09 PM EDT
I walked in front of the fireing line when I was sweeping up Brass
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
I walked in front of the fireing line when I was sweeping up Brass



If I saw you walk in front of the firing line I would come unhinged too -- that is a fast way to get killed. Only one time did I get spoken to by a rangemaster -- I was not paying attention during line cold and while talking with some guys was standing on (not beyond) the yellow line. I just said thank you (moved) and went on with life. You probably scared her.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:59:03 PM EDT
Easy Fella!

When I say I walked beyond the firing line I put the broom over the firing line. I was in slot 4 the only other guy on the range was on slot 24.

My point is that noone has the right to be yelling at anyone out there. There are ways of speaking to people wothout come off hostile.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:01:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:02:03 PM EDT by Unka-Boo]

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
I walked in front of the fireing line when I was sweeping up Brass



Well, sorry to say it was probably deserved. She is there for your safety, and think of the worst case scenario......YOU GET SHOT......not neccesarily a good thing. Take your beating and move on.


Edited to add............just the broom???
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:25:04 PM EDT
Thanks for the advice!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:37:46 PM EDT
Was she hot?

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:13:15 AM EDT
Went there as a guest of a couple members, yes, they are quite anal to someone they dont know. Then I started chatting it up with the RO and they loosened up and even let me shoot his .45LC lever action. But yeah I know how you feel, felt like I was back in California where they make you feel like your doing something wrong to be shooting.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:48:59 AM EDT
ZEAK, just based on what has been brought up here, I’d probably have to side with the RO.

Sorry man.

I don’t know that I would have come unglued, but safety is safety and there’s no other way about it.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 10:33:02 AM EDT
They can be way too strict there....I feel your pain.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:00:51 PM EDT
Yeah, I mean... if you can't bend the safety rules at a rifle range, where can you bend them?! Sheesh!

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:05:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
They can be way too strict there....I feel your pain.



Well at least he had both hands on the broom!



All kidding aside, the best reason I can think of for taking the hard line with safety rules is that it instills a seriousness about keeping all the rules in mind. I.E. If a shooter knows they're particular about inforcing the rules, the shooter is more likely to follow the rules -- all of them, all the time.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:49:04 PM EDT
They just don't want you to get killed. Some people come off in a bad way while enforcing rules as they don't want you to die.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:54:33 PM EDT
"These are the rules. They exist for your protection"

It seems everytime I'm at the 100 yd range, there's some guy who will insist on handling his rifle as we're taking the flag out. Last time it happened, the reply was - "Hey, it's empty".

Follow the rules, everyone is safe and no one will snap at you.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:16:14 PM EDT

A couple of weeks ago I chatted with a couple of Range Officers and one told a story of a recent encounter. This is the best I can remember it. I forgot many of the details though:

The RO gets this call from one of the younger RO's saying he needed some help. The older RO arrives and finds a member doing the full 360 with loaded rifles. He blew off the younger RO and didn't want to hear about rules and to make matters worse he brought three guests with him and it was probably the first time they had ever held a gun in their hands. The RO's try to keep this guy in check and teach the three newbie’s a bit about safety, but the guy kept arguing every point like he had a huge temper, a screw loose, and was mad about the RO’s helping the guests. The guests were the only ones listening to the RO’s and were doing their best to learn and be safe. He was so mad at the RO’s he called them “Range Nazis” to their face and didn't want them helping the newbie's.

It got so heated the older RO put out a call for help to all RO’s on all ranges to assist. They back off and just watch the guy froma distance, hoping he will cool off. The rest of the shooters on the line are getting concerned about all the safety violations and having loaded rifles pointed at them. Then the guy gets out a lever action .45-70 and has a negligent discharge about 15 feet in front of the bench. The RO’s asked for his ID badge and asked him to leave. He said this guy was so mad that he would have drawn on him if he were alone. When he left they had a car drive in the front and back of his car to make sure he did leave and didn’t try to speed on the way out. Then he wrote a letter to the board complaining about the RO’s. Then they told their side of the story and the board cancelled his membership.

The RO’s are there to protect you. Sometimes they sound like a drill sergeant, but that’s because they are trying to keep everyone safe. If you eliminate them you will have complete nut jobs throwing .45-70 slugs through the other members. It's not an easy job and you won't find me applying because I don't have half the patience these guys do.

I think I know the RO are talking about. She’s actually a real sweetie and even if she’s having a really bad day she can still outshoot me at 600 yards.

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:47:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 9:49:51 PM EDT by ZEAK]
I found out some more info today which may clear up the uptight RO portion of all this.

I found out that a deer was shot out there 2 weeks ago. The board is obviously upset about this and is adding more RO's, there talking about installing cameras at all the ranges as well.

I was told that the deer was shot (not sure what range) and left out there and was found by an RO.
There trying to narrow down which day this happened and are taking names and checking gate access of people on a regular basis now. Anyone that would shoot a dear out there or anything living out there has got to be a complete MORON!

I have to say I feel like a DICK for using the Name RANGE NAZI I was worked up about the whole thing last night and let it get the best of me. I apoligize for that. I still feel that the approaching of people that have made these mistake could be handled a bit more tactful.

I take my safety, guns and my shooting very seriously and would never want to shoot or be shot by anyone or myself by accident.



Link Posted: 8/9/2005 10:54:05 PM EDT
I can understand safety and the need to enforce the rules, but dressing a man down because he let a broom cross the line is abuse of power. The potential for injury was extremely small here so a simple, calm reminder of the rule concerning the line was all that was needed, not a full fledged ass chewin'.

I'd write a letter to the folks in charge and explain the situation. You will probably not hear anything back, but it may lead to a review of their disciplinary policy if enough members do the same.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 10:57:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
A couple of weeks ago I chatted with a couple of Range Officers and one told a story of a recent encounter.



Thanks for posting that story. Very interesting, and way outside anything I would have expected at TCGC.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 11:00:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 11:01:44 PM EDT by GackMan]

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:

It got so heated the older RO put out a call for help to all RO’s on all ranges to assist. They back off and just watch the guy froma distance, hoping he will cool off. The rest of the shooters on the line are getting concerned about all the safety violations and having loaded rifles pointed at them. Then the guy gets out a lever action .45-70 and has a negligent discharge about 15 feet in front of the bench. The RO’s asked for his ID badge and asked him to leave. He said this guy was so mad that he would have drawn on him if he were alone. When he left they had a car drive in the front and back of his car to make sure he did leave and didn’t try to speed on the way out. Then he wrote a letter to the board complaining about the RO’s. Then they told their side of the story and the board cancelled his membership.






It is shit like that, that will ensure that there is no way in hell that there will be center-fire rifles allowed in the tactical pits once the re-model is finished.

pisses me off.

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:20:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 12:21:05 AM EDT by ch139]
Kinda off the subject, but as an RO and instructor at the ARPC I’ve seen all kids of scary stupid shit (yeh, I'm one of those Range Nazis).

But shooting with ya’ll a few times up at Brown’s Camp, especially with so many people that only know each other from a user ID on the net, it’s been a real pleasure.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:24:38 AM EDT
I thought it was odd there were ROs during the week. I haven't been out there in a few weeks, 2 day courses don't leave me enough time during the week. As far as straying over the line while sweeping, at least you were sweeping and if you have a broom in your hand you aren't liable to start playing with your gun. A simple "mind the line" or "the range is cold" would do. There are a few people out there who have an attitide and don't think there should be open membership, or at the very least many of the ranges should be restricted to certain groups. Just like with regular politics, these are the people most active in club politics and are a small minority. Most people are friendly and helpful and will gently remind you if your brain slips a gear for a second, as long as you don't make a habit of it. Some people are a bit too friendly and if you're not careful will talk your ear off
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:37:09 AM EDT
I find the problem with the range officers is not there strickness of the rules but how they like to over apply them to "assult rifle" owners. It is very obvious they are not so friendly to people who shoot anything looking scary or not for hunting. I've even had cops at TCGC say things like "That shouldn't be legal" and stare at me, hope I do anything slightly wrong. I find the same aditude from the old fart RO's, and get tiered of them standing behind me the entire time I shoot staring at me from 3 feet away.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:46:25 AM EDT
Sounds like maybe she went a little overboard. Not that I have any experience with your club, but down here (at the RRGC) when things would happen and a complaint was filed, ALL RO's got to hear about it. Ever think about that? Maybe all of the RO's got thier hind ends chewed on and were told not to let anything slip at all?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:07:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ch139:
Kinda off the subject, but as an RO and instructor at the ARPC I’ve seen all kids of scary stupid shit (yeh, I'm one of those Range Nazis).

But shooting with ya’ll a few times up at Brown’s Camp, especially with so many people that only know each other from a user ID on the net, it’s been a real pleasure.



I was also pleased. Good "cold range" stuff. Everyone appeared to be acting responsibly. In all, a fun, but generally safe bunch of people.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:09:05 PM EDT
WOW!

You took the words right of my Brain!

It's almost like if you have an AR out there your a trouble maker!

The Day this all went down There were 3 of us and we all had AR's

Coincidence?????

Hmmmmmmmm­m
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:52:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 10:59:51 PM EDT by Ellery_Holt]

Originally Posted By ZEAK:

It's almost like if you have an AR out there your a trouble maker!




Yes, 'almost' as in 'that was your experience.' The only rifles I shoot there are ARs, and I've never gotten so much as a sideways glance from anybody, including the ROs -- who are more likely to just want to BS your ears off. That's my experience. Coincidence? Oooooo...

Maybe one day I'll have a bad experience there that I'll attribute to bias against my black rifle. Maybe one day you'll have a good experience with an RO despite shooting an AR. Maybe it's all just karma. Maybe there's a correlation between breaking the rules and catching crap. Who knows?

Happy shooting!

­

<­BR>

AND WATCH THAT LINE!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:24:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 11:32:27 PM EDT by GackMan]
Ya know... I've never had a problem shooting an evil assault rifle at TCGC.

but I can count on one hand the number of times an RO has actually been down on the line for anything more than a quick spot check.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:56:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
Ya know... I've never had a problem shooting an evil assault rifle at TCGC.

but I can count on one hand the number of times an RO has actually been down on the line for anything more than a quick spot check.



Last Sunday I was there with Nox. Of course Nox wouldn't leave...so we ended up spending close to 4 hours there. In that time, there were two ROs there except for maybe 45 minutes.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:12:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By GackMan:
Ya know... I've never had a problem shooting an evil assault rifle at TCGC.

but I can count on one hand the number of times an RO has actually been down on the line for anything more than a quick spot check.



Last Sunday I was there with Nox. Of course Nox wouldn't leave...so we ended up spending close to 4 hours there. In that time, there were two ROs there except for maybe 45 minutes.



Week-ends there are usually volunteer ROs for all the ranges. During the week it was just the 2 maint guys, but it sounds like there are ROs durng the week now also. I've never had any trouble about my AR from anyone, including LE. They are usualy interested in it, but more of a "cool, what ya got" kind of attitude. This might change when my 458 SOCOM with a can gets approved and I go to sight it in.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:48:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
When I say I walked beyond the firing line I put the broom over the firing line. I was in slot 4 the only other guy on the range was on slot 24.



I figured I'd chime in on this to say WOW.

If someone went apeshit on me because only a bit of BROOM and not PERSON went over the line, I would have words with the management of the place, and possibly turn in my membership and walk.

I understand the safety aspect of things, and I completely agree with them.

A person standing behind the line holding a broom which crossed the line is NOT the same thing as a person standing in front of the line, pure and simple.

A friendly little "hey, you and everything you're touching needs to be behind the line during an open range, friend" would have easily sufficed, if anything really needed to be said.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:38:34 AM EDT
My experience with RO's at TCGC has been that they are interested in what I am shooting in a positive way. I have never had a negative comment on the type of guns I am shooting -- and the guns are frequently Black Suppressed guns. A couple of times they wanted to chat so much that I could hardly get a shot in during range hot. I have a lot of respect for and appreaciate the work that they do trying to keep us reminded of safety rules. I look at it this way, I am getting to shoot and have a great time, and they have to work -- all they can do is watch us enjoy shooting.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:41:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 8:41:56 AM EDT by GackMan]

Originally Posted By kythri:
If someone went apeshit on me because only a bit of BROOM and not PERSON went over the line, I would have words with the management of the place, and possibly turn in my membership and walk.



it is all voulenteer staff. nobody at the range is paid for anything. so.... you kind of get what you pay for.

A better approach might be to attend the next membership meeting and discuss the 'freindly customer service oriented attitude of the ROs" :)

on the other hand, I couldn't imagine being an RO. the number of muzzles they get to inspect on a daily basis... damn. I'd be on edge too.

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:05:06 AM EDT
I believe the RO's are paid.

TCGC does have employee's....they better for the amount of fee's they collect.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:29:12 PM EDT
I agree with Gack.

If you have an issue, the membership meetings are held monthly - show up and speak up.

Ellery_Holt has a good point as well - maybe it's not the rifle that gets the negative reaction, life is like that - you kind of get out of it what you put into it. (Just a thought)

Not trying to flame you, but I've had nothing but positive interaction with TCGC ROs with or without Assult or Battle rifles.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:59:40 PM EDT
How long did it take you to put that thought together?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:02:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 8:05:14 PM EDT by GackMan]

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
How long did it take you to put that thought together?




you're going to have to give a little bit more on that.

who are you talking to?

what are you talking about?

maybe I'm taking it the wrong way, but are you trying to get pissy about this with someone on here?

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:59:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ellery_Holt:

Originally Posted By ZEAK:

It's almost like if you have an AR out there your a trouble maker!




Yes, 'almost' as in 'that was your experience.' heanybody, including the ROs -- who are more likely to just want to BS your ears off. That's my experience. Coincidence? Oooooo... have
Happy shooting!


This Ellery_ Holt guy's been yankin my chain since I posted this. All I ever intended was to ask a question and explain a situation. He comes off as being God's Gift to a Gun Range and that I'm just some idiot.

<­BR>

AN­D WATCH THAT LINE! hr
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:04:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 10:25:50 PM EDT by Ellery_Holt]

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
This Ellery_ Holt guy's been yankin my chain since I posted this. All I ever intended was to ask a question and explain a situation. He comes off as being God's Gift to a Gun Range and that I'm just some idiot.



Zeak, don't take this as a negative criticism, it's a positive criticism -- the world will seem a lot less hostile toward you with just a little change of perspective. Folks are not out to make you look foolish. Not the ROs, not me, and probably not anyone who is in the family of shooters.

I've found a wide range of personalities among fellow firearm enthusiasts. You'll be able to relax and enjoy the camaraderie with a little less sensitivity and little more appreciation of a good ribbing.

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:20:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ellery_Holt:
Zeak, don't take this as a negative criticism, it's a positive criticism -- the world will seem a lot less hostile toward you with just a little change of perspective. Folks are not out to make you look foolish. Not the ROs, not me, and probably not anyone who is in the family of shooters.

I've found a wide range of personalities among fellow firearm enthusiasts. You'll be able to relax and enjoy the camaraderie with a little less sensitivity and little more appreciation of a good ribbing.




Best advice I've seen all day
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:34:14 AM EDT

but are you trying to get pissy about this with someone on here?



I say this calls for someone to get "draw down" on!

Wait! That's not safe, nevermind.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:10:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
All I ever intended was to ask a question and explain a situation...
...and that I'm just some idiot.



Honestly, you use the term Range Nazi and are surprised by the reaction from the members of this fine club?
You violate the rules and they're Nazis?

Let's see, how about if in future posts you use the following rules, to avoid any strong responses;
a) Call police - pigs
b) Call soldiers - baby killers
c) Call the President - War Criminal.
Geez!

Dude - if you choose provacative language, don't act all bitchy when people call bull shit on you.
Any time you use the term Nazi - you've lost the argument.

I hope you're next experience is better and I hope we all get a chance to shoot together.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:30:46 PM EDT
Adolf Hitler was a Nazi of a leader... have I lost yet?
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:42:36 PM EDT

g. During a Cease Fire, only after all those present have returned from the targets and are safely behind the yellow safety line may brass in front of the firing line be picked up and chronographs set up. This is necessary to keep range users away from the shooting benches while people are downrange.

www.tcgc.org/tcgcrulesmarch2005.htm


Link Posted: 8/13/2005 1:06:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By double_trouble_2003:

Originally Posted By ZEAK:
All I ever intended was to ask a question and explain a situation...
...and that I'm just some idiot.



Honestly, you use the term Range Nazi and are surprised by the reaction from the members of this fine club?
You violate the rules and they're Nazis?

Let's see, how about if in future posts you use the following rules, to avoid any strong responses;
a) Call police - pigs
b) Call soldiers - baby killers
c) Call the President - War Criminal.
Geez!

Dude - if you choose provacative language, don't act all bitchy when people call bull shit on you.
Any time you use the term Nazi - you've lost the argument.

I hope you're next experience is better and I hope we all get a chance to shoot together.



you're a big meanie...
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 9:02:52 AM EDT
I was at TCGC every day this week shooting (my vacation -- wife had to work) and had several intereactions with the RO's. All were positive -- one even took my box of ammo that I had partially used and returned a few minutes later with it filled. I had a couple of very short conversations with the female RO -- she wanted to know about the silencer on my .22 pistol and why I didn't have any target set up (I was packing up to go home). I think these are very nice folks with a tough job.

Also, in these 7 days of shooting I saw some really dumb moves. One time on the pistol range a chap decided to set his target during range hot -- he didn't say a word, he just started down the path to the targets -- fortunately for him, there were very few of us at the range at the time and none were actually firing as we were talking still at the firing line. We hastely called a cease fire and let him go downrange. The RO was not at the range at that time, but this is the kind of stuff they are trying to keep from happening. I also saw a person scrounging brass from in front of the firing line while the range was hot and people were shooting -- the RO happened to walk in at that moment and she did a bit of chewing on him (this was not the person who started this thread as this happened on Thursday of this week.) All in all, I am glad for the strong safety perspective that the ROs bring to the range.

BTW -- 7 days of shooting is a very good vacation.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 9:56:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 9:57:50 AM EDT by ch139]

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
g. During a Cease Fire, only after all those present have returned from the targets and are safely behind the yellow safety line may brass in front of the firing line be picked up and chronographs set up. This is necessary to keep range users away from the shooting benches while people are downrange.

www.tcgc.org/tcgcrulesmarch2005.htm




That’s the first time I’ve ever heard a rule like that, and I really like it.

Every range I’ve ever been to will allow the shooter to go forward of the line to pick up brass while a cease fire has been called and people are down range, "everybody else not going down range or picking up brass is to stay behind the yellow line " so say most range rules.

For this instance I don’t remember there being a cease fire called though.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 10:00:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MGKAC556:
SNIP

BTW -- 7 days of shooting is a very good vacation.



You suck!

I wish I could get in that kind of shooting time.

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