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Posted: 2/2/2006 9:05:46 AM EDT
[#1]
I'd say you're understating things a bit.
Not so much "may impact" their business, more like make them close or move out of the state. c) Except as provided in subsection (e), 90 days after the 35 effective date of this amendatory Act of the 94th General 36 Assembly, it is unlawful for any person within this State, to 1 knowingly manufacture, deliver, or possess or cause to be 2 manufactured, delivered, or possessed, a semiautomatic assault 3 weapon, an assault weapon attachment, any 50 caliber rifle, or 4 50 caliber cartridge. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 9:27:06 AM EDT
[#2]
I'd say that's a pretty big impact on their business. Don't you think so? Close up shop, lay-off / fire existing staff, find and purchase a new facility, move existing stock and equipment, and rehire / train new staff.....Consider how much downtime would be involved, and RRA would be hard pressed to fulfill their contract obligations let alone the people who are waiting for a single rifle / part. I'm not dogging you HRoark, but this is some serious stuff(s--t) going on here. 4X4SC ETA: I may be going off the deap end, but this whole thing just infuriates me......... 
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Posted: 2/2/2006 9:35:15 AM EDT
[#3]
No, I'm with you. I'm not trying to give youy a hard time.
DSA, Armalite, RRA, Les Baer, Springfield, Eagle arms... Do these idiots in Springfield have any idea how many "Assault rifle" manufacturers there are in Illinois? If everyone isn't including this information in the letters we're sending then they need to start. This is tax revenue and jobs lost. Two of the things politicians seem to understand from time to time. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 12:55:38 PM EDT
[#4]
LMT also
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Posted: 2/2/2006 1:27:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Okay guys here is what I found out from Steve with RRA.
Chris, We’re actively involved in lobbying our legislators, working with and contributing to the NRA and the ISRA, bringing up the issue with local politicians, Chamber of Commerce leaders, and others with an active interest in local business development, and getting local businesses that would also be hurt by a reversal of fortune within the firearms industry to also contact legislators, their trade associations, guilds, etc…to help get across the word that there are literally hundreds of businesses and thousands of jobs across Illinois that, while not firearms oriented, depend on our business and others like it to keep their doors open and their lights on. We have contingency plans for a worst case scenario, but I am not at liberty to share them. Thanks. Steve Steve, Thanks for getting back with me, and sharing what RRA is actively doing about HB2414. Do you mind if I share this email response with others on AR15.com in the Illinois forum? Thanks again Chris Chris, You can certainly pass along the information. When I referenced all of the other businesses which would be impacted, you really have to think of the impact. Local machine shops that do some work for us, in-state vendors of parts and materials, the trucking companies that we use, UPS, the company that makes our boxes, the companies that sell us parts bags and bins, our media company, our web site folks and ISP, the contractors who plow our lot and mow our grass, and on and on all the way through to the local restaurants where we go for lunch and the gas station down the road where we fill up both the company’s vehicles and our own. Consider the governmental bodies that collect a wide assortment of taxes from us, both as a business and as individuals, and their loss of revenues if the state were to put us out of business here. Multiply that by the number of manufacturers in Illinois. Let’s not even go near the National Security/Homeland Defense ramifications, as we and several other Illinois-based companies provide firearms, parts, and services to local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies and US and foreign militaries and government agencies. I think this information is very important when we start asking the non-gun community to side with us. They have a huge stake in this legislation, whether they know it or not. Either directly or indirectly, they benefit from our (the industry’s) existence and success. Steve/RRA Thanks Steve. 4X4SC |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 2:11:58 PM EDT
[#6]
I have no doubt that these companies are fighting to prevent these bills from going any further. When you think about it in material and finacial terms these laws effect the manufacturers more than they will ever effect us(gun owners).
Just a side note though, anyone ever notice that almost all the companies are with in a skunks butt of the Iowa border? Coinsidence? I think not. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 2:43:23 PM EDT
[#7]
I suspect that any manufacture that had to leave the state due to the passage of HB2414 would take their staff/employees along with them. Any good company would want to retain their valued employees. I knew of one company when I was living out in Arizona that moved their whole staff and employees to Kalifornia and paid every cent of the move. I know if I was an employee of one of these companies. Do you think I would want to remain in the crapper of an anti-gun state and not welcome the invitation to go with them to a more pro-gun friendly state? |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 4:41:09 PM EDT
[#8]
There was an article in the Peoria Jounal Star (someone posted it here) about the manufacturers over there. I remember one of them saying they get offers from Wyoming to move their business there all the time...
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Posted: 2/2/2006 7:15:41 PM EDT
[#9]
I surely hope this shit doesn't pass, but if it did and an IL firearms manufacturer was moving to WY I would submit my resume immediately.
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Posted: 2/3/2006 12:27:50 AM EDT
[#10]
x2 |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 5:59:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Man, how rare it is these days to see a company that actually gives a damn about it's customers and it's rights. I am already a big fan of RRA, but that response from Steve impressed me and he has gained a loyal repeat customer and ally in the fight against Daley. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 7:26:40 AM EDT
[#12]
would be great to see these ILL. manuf. follow Ronnie Barrett
and refuse sales or service to ILL. law enforcement on 2nd thought maybe all other manuf. too ! ! ! i know easier said than done , but would be funny visual of barney fife with the junky old revolver and 1 bullet  |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 10:02:12 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 2/3/2006 10:47:58 AM EDT
[#14]
i belive armalite got the illinois state police contract for there ar15 carbines..
cut off support there would be nice... |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 12:44:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Exactly. Illinois State Police always back these bullshit Daley gun grabs. If Armalite doesn't dump their contract with ISP, I say boycott them. Let's see how long it is until Armalite is out of business once again for selling guns to a police orginazation that supports the stripping of Second Amendment rights from law abiding citizens. I personally would never buy an Armalite product simply because of their relationship with the ISP, which in my opinion the ISP are simply Daley's lemmings. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 1:07:10 PM EDT
[#16]
I talked with numerous firearm reps at last year's Shot Show about exactly this subject. I suggested that they refuse to sell their product to a city that had a lawsuit pending against virtually the entire industry. Not one of them thought denying their product to the city of Chicago was in their best interest.
Every single one of the people I spoke with thought that if they didn't make the sale to Chicago PD or suburban departments, that the competition would. I guess they are basically all whores who will sell to anyone regardless of the politics involved. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 3:29:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Not selling to the State or the City of Chicago isn't going to change anything. And a business deciding to not sell their product to large customers is counter productive to BUSINESS. Armalite is doing what it has to to stay in business. I don't see anyone saying that no firearm manufacturer should sell to the US gov. because a senator or congressman wants to pass another AWB. Hell, let's not sell to the Army or Marines because the US government passed an AWB in 1994. Thats the answer, that will solve all our problems.
 I like Ronnie Barrett and what he did to LA, but the fact remains that he had already sold weapons to that city. He refused to service them anymore, or to sell them anymore, but the fact is that he made his money off them first. And since I'm an Armalite fan, let me say this. Not selling the weapons to the ISP does nothing but put the lifes of the TROOPERS on the road at risk. It does not for one second effect Larry Trent or his policy's. Larry Trent is appointed over the ISP, that isn't to say he represents the troopers beliefs. Law Enforcement Officers have completely different ideas then their Chiefs. If a Chief of Pollice believes no one but his officers should have guns, does that mean that all of the officers in that department should become our enemies? |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Ronnie Barrett is now in fact selling a new cartridge in CA. If I'm not mistaken, it's a .50 BMG necked down to .416. Looks like a very promising long range round. Probably better than the .50 it originated from. Wait and see what happens here. It will be anothe case where someone just found a "loophole" around the law.
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Posted: 2/3/2006 3:56:31 PM EDT
[#19]
I'd rather stop the legislation before we have to go searching for loopholes. WIZZO |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 5:48:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Absolutely. He represents them. He is their leader. Cops are notorious for being anti CCW and in this state, generally, anti firearms ownership completely. There are a few that do not think this way, but I have seen none of them sticking up for us on TV. What I did see is their leader condemning us our belief in an armed society. There are cops that are pro-gun ownership and pro-ccw, but they're few and far between. My best friend is a cop and I even see it coming out of him, and he and his family are long time sportsman and he is the person that introduced me to firearms ownership. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 6:08:25 PM EDT
[#21]
I would have to diasagree. Wasn't there an article within the last year or two when there was a workplace shooting and Phil Cline said it could've been prevented if we had ccw. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 6:58:18 PM EDT
[#22]
I am a police officer here in Illinois. I believe the ban would be a bunch of crap. All Daley and Blagovich are doing is trying to violate our rights. Chicaco cant even control their own crime. The Second Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms. If they ban the weapons here Not only am I but everyone else is oppressed by this law. Good people arent out killing people with guns. It is the thugs who are making life hard on everyone else. I also believe in concealed carry for everyone in Illinois. I think crime would go down because people could fight back. Like I always said before I was a citizen before I was a cop and I will be a citizen when I quit be a cop. I believe in my rights and I support everyone in trying to defeat this bill. Keep up the fight and lets let our reps know we wont take this crap. This is just my .02 cents Stay safe JC
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Posted: 2/3/2006 11:25:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Well take it from someone that has worked in Law Enforcement, your fara nd few between is more like one out of every 2. Not to mention the last time I looked Police Chiefs weren't hired by a vote of the officers. They are political appointees, plain and simple. You can make enemies out of who ever you wish, and you can refuse to purchase from any company you wish. Let me give you a short list of Companies that sell to Police departments so you will know who not to buy from.Armalite Colt Bushmaster RRA HK Sig Glock Ruger DS Arms Remington Winchester Mossberg Smith & Wesson I'm sure I missed a few, But that is the short list. Of course I'm sure you don't and wouldn't own any of those makes of guns due to the fact that they supply Police Officers with their issued weapons, and of course the Cops are against us having guns.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 12:23:48 AM EDT
[#24]
The cops probably drive Ford's too.
 Not that there is anything wrong with that, just not type of vehicle I want to ride in. If I won the Lotto, maybe a Ford f350 1 ton.  Oh yeah, were taking gun rights. If I'm getting shot by the cops , I want it to be the best gun and ammo our tax money provides. What brand of boot they gonna be wearing to breach the door at 2:30 A.M. ? Not gonna happen .... We are The Holders Of Our Childrens 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT. WE can not let them down. Just thinking of OUR TAX money at work... I hope I don't have to pay the local road tax today. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:31:41 AM EDT
[#25]
You are distorting the reality of the situation by saying a company shouldn't sell to the military because of a Senator's personal opinion on guns. I own a business and there is a certain thing in business called ETHICS. Perhaps if the life of Troopers were at risk, they would understand what it is like fon non-LEO citizens to be defenseless. LEO's often do have different opinions that Chief's, but I wouldn't say that about ISP Troopers who were showcased on the media last week pulling people over in the Chicago area "looking" for illegal activity. You are way off the mark on this one Cody. I will not buy Armalite. The AR world is saturated. My money will go to firearm manufacturers that support MY right to keep and bear arms. There are some things that are just more important than the bottom line. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:37:39 AM EDT
[#26]
I have to agree with Tim. I have yet to meet any cop that is truely pro-gun. Most cops I have known, and that has been quite a few, believe they are elevated above the non-LEO citizen. You really have to breal it down to simple psycology. What type of person voluntarily takes a low paying job where the public you "serve" hates you? There are psycological factors in why one becomes a cop and that has been proven time and time again. This is why there is a psych test for new hire LEO's for the last few decades. Municipalities are aware of the fact that short kids that got their asses kicked on the playground their whole lives want to become cops. There are always exceptin to the rule, but the "cop" persona is that of a person who craves power and control. Ask any head shrinker. For the record, I do support LEO's, I just think they need to get a grip on themselves. When the shit hits the fan, like it did in New Orleans, many run and hide. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:39:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Now that's a good Cop!! Keep it up brother!
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:46:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Fine, but only Armalite builds rifles specifically for the ISP. Of course gun companies sell to police departments. That's not the issue. The issue is Armalite selling to a long known Mayor Daley Stormtrooper squad, the ISP. I don't think we should disarm police obviously, I believe all people should be armed. But if LEO's pick Daley's hill to die on, well then, they should get a taste of what Ronnie Barret did in California and I hope they do. If Armalite is forced to move out of IL and they continue to sell rifles to the ISP, they are simply pathetic and need some corporate self-esteem. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:41:16 AM EDT
[#29]
+1 If we start looking for loopholes now, then we're saying come get us. We give up, and just lost this fight. Let's stop knocking each other, and focus on sqaushing this bastard of a bill. 4X4SC |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:53:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Who's knocking each other? I didn't mean to say lay down and die. I was just pointing out how Ronnie Barrett made the best of a bad situation. I think I'm doing my part by contacting my representatives on a regular basis. If everybody did the same, I'm sure it would help. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 6:57:57 AM EDT
[#31]
I think this thread has drifted from the real issue.
The real issue is that there are those who threaten our rights, and we have to fight them even when the threat seems light. There are some posters on this thread who somehow think that ArmaLite's sales to the Illinois State Police is somehow consorting with the enemy. I called ArmaLite and asked Mr. Westrom about this and he basically said.: "Years ago I was a Police Officer myself. Many of my friends are Police. I can tell you from first hand street experience that almost all of them wouldn't be without firearms and support your rights because they insist the same rights are theirs too. The Illinois sale wasn't a political issue. It was a sale to a Police Force that provides protection to all of us in Illinois. A lot of them are my friends. Anybody who thinks this is improper can go pound sand." He said some other things too, about people who have never been there or done that. I'll leave them off. He said ArmaLite isn't going to change a thing. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 9:48:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Yep, sure he did have comments on others who have never been there done that. If he was a cop, he is somehow elevated above everyone else and his own personal hell and experiences are worse than everyone else's, vindicating my earlier statements. I don't want to disarm State Troopers by any means. But if upper management at Armalite cannot comprehend that they are selling rifles to a police orginazation that supports putting them out of business, then they will get what they deserve. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 12:28:24 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 2/4/2006 2:22:47 PM EDT
[#34]
I read, "My civilian customers can go pound sand." You got it, asshole. I'll take my business elsewhere, to companies that support their customers. The Illinois State Police better buy enough rifles to keep him in business, because I sure won't. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 3:35:58 PM EDT
[#35]
The people of Illinois GET what THEY deserve. They are too involved in working long, tiring hours. Too involved in bread and circuses. Too involved propping up their all too comfortable, vain lifestyle, TO BE active citizens. TO elect USEFUL representation of THEIR government in SPRINGFELD. Their lack of involvement, support, and that of just plain BEING A CITIZEN, gets them just what THEY deserve: SUBJECT STATUS. Illinoisians by and large reap what THEY sow...... |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 8:00:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Do you really think that the gun manufacture in Illinois that provide arms to the government will have to close their doors?They will get an exemption as government contractors. they won't have to move, they just won't sell to you any moreThey will sell to civilians in other states that do not live in a police state.They will just make up the differance buy charging more to the Illinois law agencies. hell they don't care how much they pay.Its not their money, its our money thats paying the bill. Ever heard of a $10,000 toilet seat?So go ahead and write off these guys ,thats what they want you to do anyway.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 10:16:22 PM EDT
[#37]
I am a Police Officer and a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. I also think that IL should have concealed carry. Please do not lump all of us together. I have emailed my state representatives several times about hb2414, and will continue to do so. I have also let local government officials, both parties, know about this bill. Even the Democrats here oppose this bill (at least the few I have talked to) and at least word is getting out. Lets keep on them!!!
p.s. I live south of I-80...way south. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 8:25:08 AM EDT
[#38]
Here we go again lumping rank and file law enforcement officers with LE CHIEFS.
LE Chiefs* would sell their mothers for another million dollars of money from Washington. Vast majority of these creeps are nothing more than politicians in uniform. LE Chiefs will say none of should have a firearm. Rank and file LEO's will tell you to get a towed artillery piece if it's legal !! ArmaLite: Almost by accident I learned that ArmaLite hosted some 'visitors' from your state government last week. I assure all of you that ArmaLite is not only concerned but has been proactive regarding the pending bill/s in Illinois. 5sub *I should point out that I'm mostly referring to big city LE Chiefs with my negative comments. Makes sense in a sorry way though. Big cities are now mostly ruin by dimocrats** so the dims would want fellow anti-gunners to be their LE Chiefs. ** An example of a dimocrat would be Chuck (the schumck) Schumer and an example of the almost extinct Democrat would be Joe Lieberman. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 8:38:36 AM EDT
[#39]
One thing I'll never forget is the LEO's speaking to the Wisconsin assembly regarding CCW just a few months ago. If it was up to them, only they would be carrying.
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Posted: 2/5/2006 11:15:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Chris,
We’re actively involved in lobbying our legislators, working with and contributing to the NRA and the ISRA, bringing up the issue with local politicians, Chamber of Commerce leaders, and others with an active interest in local business development, and getting local businesses that would also be hurt by a reversal of fortune within the firearms industry to also contact legislators, their trade associations, guilds, etc…to help get across the word that there are literally hundreds of businesses and thousands of jobs across Illinois that, while not firearms oriented, depend on our business and others like it to keep their doors open and their lights on. Well I did my part picked up my second RRA Saturday went with a Car A2 this time. I already have a elite tactical KEEP UP THE FIGHT |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Fellow LEO's have already said what I was going to add, IE Chiefs of Police are appointed positions (read:politics). Directors of ALL State Police agencies, not just ISP, are appointed by the political party that happens to currently be in office. Are there exceptions to this rule, sure but very few and far between. Nothing gets my goat more that to listen to Chiefs/Directors BLAH,BLAH,BLAH in front of the TV cameras or in the newspaper about the evils of firearms. Do they really believe what they're saying or are they just trying to appease the party they work for, for the sake of job preservation. You be the judge. Line LEO's are generally pro 2nd amendment. Are there some that are anti gun, sure, but from my experience there are more pro gun than con.
I'm located in the central part of the State but have worked from Chicago to Metropolis and have 23 yrs with State government. Want me to stereotype like some of the other posts do? Then here it is: Chicago BAD/Downstate GOOD...... In closing,the Armalite contract for ISP also includes Dept of Natural Resources, Secretary of State Police and IL Dept of Emergency Management..... Oh , and I would love to have Concealed Carry in our State. My father, retired LEO, now lives in IN. I've spoken to numerous Indiana LEO's who have told me that they have not had any adverse situations due to CC....Just my $.02 worth.. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 5:11:20 PM EDT
[#42]
I been doing my part letting the political people know how I feel if they past HB2414. I have my share of weapons and want to do what ever I can to keep them.Yes I been a hard worker and also did my share of hunting and sport shooting. I am a disabled union carpenter and also a Nam Vet. But remember no money no guns. I was born and raised in Chicago and now live just south of the city. Would move out of state but have to much to lose if I did. So I will keep up fighting as long as I can. The party makes no difference on this Bill they are both on it. I been sending Faxs out every day till I get all them at lest twice with two different letters.
Instead of fighting against each other lets put our power against these political people and show them how we stand. I don't think this bill will pass but who really knows what these political people think. I seen a mayor in a big town lose just buy a few votes and he taught he had it made but the people stuck together and voted his ass out. Nobody can say with the number of people that owns guns would send letters, emails or even a Fax that we could change some minds to vote the Bill down. hug.gif PS I am also fairly new to this site and only speaking my .02 |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 12:32:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Welcome to the site and thank you for fighting for this Country. I truely admire Vietnam Vets. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 12:38:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Perhaps we should post Armalite Management's response in the AR forum? Let's see how long their IL municipal contracts will keep the lights on. F*cking idiot. If Armalite were a publically traded company, you could bet the jaghole that said that would be the new door greeter at the Geneseo Walmart. Plenty of AR manufacturers out there, no one needs Armalite. Their .308 guns are completely unnecessary and their AR's are no better than anyone else's. No one missed them last time they swirled the drain, I'm betting no one will miss them on their second trip down the sewer. I will from now on buy as much RRA products as possible. I hope you genuises at Armalite are reading this, I'm sure you are. Have a nice day Smith and Wesson, ugh, I mean Armalite. 
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Posted: 2/6/2006 7:52:40 PM EDT
[#45]
It's threads like this that make me thank god I'm a cop on the west side of the Mississippi River. To lump all LEOs as fascist, egocentric people who only think they should own certain types of weapons is absurd. The anti-gun attitudes seem to come from the darkest blue populations of the blue states. Many cops in my state don't give a sh*t about CCW issues because most of them are hunters and outright gun nuts. Its not uncommon to see civilians around my area carrying weapons on their hip not even attempting to conceal them. If I had a dollar for everytime I stopped a car with a weapon in it, I would be a millionaire. I don't fear a AR-15 as much as I do an old boy with a 30.06 and high end scope (which there are plenty of here).
Personally, my attitude is for all these firearms manufacturers to move out of those anti-gun states into states that support their values. As far as purchasing an Armalite product, if I pick up the phone and they have what I need ok. I don't like waiting six months for a product if its available right now. Just because they supply weapons to an organization doesn't mean they buy off on what they believe. Its a business and you sell to whom buys your products. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:52:40 AM EDT
[#46]
If Armalite sold rifles to the Illinois State Police, I don't have a problem with it. If Illinois tax dollars were spent in Illinois and benefit Illinois residents who work for Armalite, then that is A-OK with me.
Don't assume that the rank and file in police agencies make policy. Don't assume that the rank and file follow the governor's lead. Many of the police officers in the midwest are competitive shooters, firearms enthusiasts and proponents of the Second Amendment like the rest of us. I'll buy something from you the next time I am in the market for an AR-10 or M-15 Mr. Westrom. 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 9:54:40 AM EDT
[#47]
I will cherish my current ArmaLite, and intend to buy another.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:05:45 AM EDT
[#48]
Absurd to you, reality to the rest of the world. Some people don't live in the bubble that is your municpality. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:30:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Tim, How much of the rest of the world have you seen? Believe it or not, there are places where people think and act differently than they do in the Chicago area. Maybe you need to get out more and see what the rest of the country is like. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 12:47:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Tim, your bubble seems to be the only one with the fascist, egocentric LEO's as a majority of Law enforcement. one or two out of a hundred LEO's doesn't represent the entire community, someday you will understand that. 
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