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Posted: 7/2/2008 9:09:43 AM EDT
InSights Training Center Presents:

RECONDO School

This course will encompass how to patrol, recon, ambush, and raid, and will involve individual and small unit tactics, leadership, planning, operations orders, warning orders, and rehearsals.

One of the ultimate expressions of this was done during the Vietnam War and was know as MACV-RECONDO school . This school was set up by Project Delta (yes, the guys who later founded Delta Force) and then turned over to 5th SFG. This was the basis for LRRP/Ranger type operations in Vietnam. This course will be modeled after that school but with a modern backdrop and modern planning procedures.

There will be instructors from the actual Vietnam Recondo school along with modern experienced Rangers and Special Forces personnel. Outside of the military nothing like this has ever been offered before. Others have done fantasy camps, no one has run the real deal. Most active duty infantrymen never get a chance for this level of training!

This course will be a 24/7 immersion conducted out of a "fire-base" with large military tents and cots, in a training area of more than 800 acres. Food will be provided. The missions will go from very small unit recons, to two-element ambushes, to multi-element raids, with QRF or "hatchet force" operations as well. Basically, 5-6 man to full-class operations. All students will be involved in leadership and planning. This class is not just about tactics-the leadership and planning portions are as important as tactics, as is working as a team. Stress will be induced through the rapid pace: this is a learning tool for leadership and teamwork that cannot be overemphasized.

The course will have plenty of live role players to include "civilians" and each patrol will have an observer/controller/lane-grader with them at all times. Every student will have a chance to work in every role on a team and all of it will be "graded".

This is not a "yell at you and do pushups" course, this is a professionally run course for people that want to learn real skills. Come push yourself and find your limits and what you are still capable of at the ends of your limits. This class will be physical but anyone of reasonable fitness is encouraged to attend. Each mission will include a mile or two total of movement in the woods. The intent is not to "smoke" you with physical skills but to give you enough that you can learn the lessons. Also anyone that needs to take a mission off or suffers some minor injury that does not allow them to continue a patrol will be working in the company HQ helping do the intel fusion, company-level planning, and giving OPORDs to the teams, a learning experience in and of itself. All-in-all over 120 hours of training!

Topics Include:
The concept and history of LRRPs
Individual movement techniques
Small unit tactics/battle drills
Duties of the individual LRRP team members
How to call for artillery fire
How to call for air support
Combat aid and casevac
Area reconnaissance
Point reconnaissance
Ambush
Prisoner snatch
Heavy team raid
Company raid
Combat search and destroy
Combat search and rescue
Quick Reaction Force operations
And much more than can be listed here!

Aug 23-31
Continuous from 12p Saturday until 12p Sunday of the following week so people can fly without taking extra days off. Eight full days of training!

$2,200.00 USD

EQUIPMENT
Basic field gear. Detailed list issued at registration.

http://www.insightstraining.com/us/view_course.asp?courseID=143&categoryID=4
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 10:35:38 AM EDT
Damn that sounds fun.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 10:53:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Getnlwr:
Damn that sounds fun.


I wish I could send my Dad, my brother, and some of my friends. I need some more trained backup.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 11:06:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Getnlwr:
Damn that sounds fun.


I wish I could send my Dad, my brother, and some of my friends. I need some more trained backup.


Yeah? Trained backup is always nice. I'll worry about backup after I get the training myself.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 7:09:15 PM EDT
I think I can still find my "Army" taught RECONDO school certificate. Fort Lewis – 1975.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 7:41:10 PM EDT
and just think, I recieved all that training for free.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 8:39:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deltafred:
and just think, I recieved all that training for free.


Maybe you did, very few people are so lucky, even those in the infantry. The guys teaching this are recon specialists not just infantrymen who also did recon. I've been lucky enough to have gone to just about everything the army has to offer, IMO this will be pretty special.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 9:17:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By deltafred:
and just think, I recieved all that training for free.


Maybe you did, very few people are so lucky, even those in the infantry. The guys teaching this are recon specialists not just infantrymen who also did recon. I've been lucky enough to have gone to just about everything the army has to offer, IMO this will be pretty special.


Dude... I wish I had the money.

Anyone know if tracy roberts will be instructing?
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 9:31:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By moximouse:

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By deltafred:
and just think, I recieved all that training for free.


Maybe you did, very few people are so lucky, even those in the infantry. The guys teaching this are recon specialists not just infantrymen who also did recon. I've been lucky enough to have gone to just about everything the army has to offer, IMO this will be pretty special.


Dude... I wish I had the money.

Anyone know if tracy roberts will be instructing?


Tracy said he may come down and tell everyone the one thing he learned in Vietnam "listen to your platoon sgt"

I know it costs, but we will have about a one-to-one ration on staff; with instructors, supports for radios and vehicles, and OPFOR.
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 9:59:17 PM EDT
The Army is restarting the Recondo school, last I heard....
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 11:34:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2008 12:12:49 AM EDT by R-32]
One of my best older friends "Art" was one of the first members of Project Delta, and a SF sniper. He died a little over a year ago. I took DaBunny to meet him once... Kinda cool listening to two really old guys relive the Vietnam war.
Link Posted: 7/3/2008 5:38:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By deltafred:
and just think, I recieved all that training for free.


Maybe you did, very few people are so lucky, even those in the infantry. The guys teaching this are recon specialists not just infantrymen who also did recon. I've been lucky enough to have gone to just about everything the army has to offer, IMO this will be pretty special.


Ya, I as in the USMC when I went through this training.
Link Posted: 7/3/2008 9:11:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deltafred:

Ya, I as in the USMC when I went through this training.


Thats great, if you were lucky enough to go through ARS then you probably understand recon.
Link Posted: 7/3/2008 6:26:41 PM EDT
so is the last test called "you bet your life?"

this sounds like a shit load of fun!
Link Posted: 7/7/2008 5:39:33 PM EDT
Some info on a couple of the instructors. There are a few Vietnam guys coming also, I will post their bios later. Recondo school instructors, and LRRP team members, SF survival instructors, combat trackers, etc. Hopefully a few special guests as well.

Greg Hamilton has served as an US Army Ranger and currently serves as a Special Forces soldier. Among other qualifications Greg is a Master Parachutist, Freefall Jumpmaster, Scout Swimmer Instructor, Special Forces Mountain Leader, and a Terminal Attack Controller. Greg has served with the Army’s most elite Reconnaissance unit to exist post-Vietnam, the 75th Ranger Regiments, Regimental Reconnaissance Detachment. Greg has served operationally in Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Iraq.

J.W. is a former Army Ranger, having served over 4 years with 2nd Ranger Battalion during GWOT. He has served over 17 months in Iraq and Afghanistan conducting combat operations, starting as a fireteam member (M203 gunner and M249 gunner), and serving three tours as a team leader (both as a M240 and Carl Gustav AT team leader). JW earned the SGM Robert Spencer Leadership Award from Ranger School, is a Combat Lifesaver and a Combat Tracker. JW is an experienced instructor and leader and is currently in his last year of ROTC and will be returning to the military.

B.C. started his military career as a Force Recon Marine. As a Force Reconnaissance Team member he attended U.S.M.C. Amphibious Reconnaissance School, U.S. Army Parachutists School, U.S. Navy Dive School, U.S. Army Ranger School, and earned his Marine Corps Gold Wings. BC recently served a tour in Afghanistan as an 18B, Special Forces Weapons Sergeant, conducting and leading reconnaissance and combat patrols on the Afghan/Pakistan border in support of GWOT. The USMC Force Reconnaissance Company’s contain one of the only unbroken chains of recon knowledge and people from Vietnam to the present day.
Link Posted: 7/8/2008 11:59:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

J.W. is a former Army Ranger, having served over 4 years with 2nd Ranger Battalion during GWOT. He has served over 17 months in Iraq and Afghanistan conducting combat operations, starting as a fireteam member (M203 gunner and M249 gunner), and serving three tours as a team leader (both as a M240 and Carl Gustav AT team leader). JW earned the SGM Robert Spencer Leadership Award from Ranger School, is a Combat Lifesaver and a Combat Tracker. JW is an experienced instructor and leader and is currently in his last year of ROTC and will be returning to the military.


The way the Army works, he'll probably branched in the Finance Corps!
Link Posted: 7/8/2008 1:55:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By support_six:


The way the Army works, he'll probably branched in the Finance Corps!


that would be funny, he's our only youngin' of the group. the rest of the instructors either are 40ish and have been doing the stuff since the 80's into GWOT or are Vietnam guys. But he is a good instructor and can add in quite a bit of knowledge on modern planning and coordination's and all the modern acronyms (mine are all expired!)
Link Posted: 7/9/2008 1:13:36 AM EDT
Anyone who goes, needs to give a ful report on what they recieved.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:17:56 PM EDT

The class is coming together well, great facility, OPFOR, etc. here are bios of a few of the people that will be involved in teaching, we also look forward to a few more very experienced veterans as guest instructors and company support


J.R. stared his military career as an Infantryman in the 101st Airborne in 1968, attended Airborne School, and was the honor graduate of the original RECONDO School started be Gen Westmoreland at Ft Campbell, he then served with the 101 in Phu Bai Vietnam, after his service in Vietnam, he attended ROTC and graduated Ranger School while earning his commission, JR returned to service in Asia where he served for over six months until injured and evacuated back to the States. He resumed Jump status with the 172nd In Alaska, and then he was assigned to the newly formed 2nd Ranger Battalion at Ft Lewis in 1976 and served until 1977 were injuries forced him to leave, He was then the Training Officer for 1st Brigade, 9th Infantry Divisions RECONDO School until it closure in 1977. JR medically retired shortly thereafter. His awards include Awards include EIB, CIB, ABN, Ranger Tab, BS, DSM, LoM, 7 surgeries, and 23 casts.

Also should have a few other pretty cool experienced guys from Vietnam, some were there as early as duck-hunter camo and carbines others in SOG. Should be a very good mix of current and Vietnam era recon men.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:50:18 PM EDT
slightly off topic, but how doesn one become a combat tracker?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 8:22:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By deltafred:

Ya, I as in the USMC when I went through this training.


Thats great, if you were lucky enough to go through ARS then you probably understand recon.


FWIW Marine grunts consistantly train on every aspect of that list and more. Thats the easy stuff.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 8:24:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GlockLuvinRedleg:
slightly off topic, but how doesn one become a combat tracker?


David-scott Donelan from TTOS is one way.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 8:30:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By deltafred:

Ya, I as in the USMC when I went through this training.


Thats great, if you were lucky enough to go through ARS then you probably understand recon.


FWIW Marine grunts consistantly train on every aspect of that list and more. Thats the easy stuff.



No, Marine grunts do not train on every aspect of the list. Since I have a few former marine grunts on staff who have moved on I can say that pretty damn confidently. In fact my "Marine grunt" who is also ARS, Ranger, and SF qualified and led Marines on combat patrols all over Afghanistan would disagree. Marines do a lot of stuff and are good at them, the average marine infantryman does not know this curriculum. But if you want to believe marine grunts know recon like say a Force guy or a reondo guy from nam feel free. If Marine grunts knew this stuff there would be no reason for the land portion of ARS, but since there is it tell me the corps disagrees with you.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 8:56:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 8:56:44 PM EDT by SkilletsUSMC]

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By deltafred:

Ya, I as in the USMC when I went through this training.


Thats great, if you were lucky enough to go through ARS then you probably understand recon.


FWIW Marine grunts consistantly train on every aspect of that list and more. Thats the easy stuff.



No, Marine grunts do not train on every aspect of the list. Since I have a few former marine grunts on staff who have moved on I can say that pretty damn confidently. In fact my "Marine grunt" who is also ARS, Ranger, and SF qualified and led Marines on combat patrols all over Afghanistan would disagree. Marines do a lot of stuff and are good at them, the average marine infantryman does not know this curriculum. But if you want to believe marine grunts know recon like say a Force guy or a reondo guy from nam feel free. If Marine grunts knew this stuff there would be no reason for the land portion of ARS, but since there is it tell me the corps disagrees with you.


OK what ever dude. I dont want to come off as a dick, and I bet your school is pretty good, but 0311s do and have done EVERYTHING on that list with the possible Exception of a LRRP (though I did do a 9 day patrol to find and snatch a CENTCOM HVT (one of Zarqawis Lts).

Other than LRRP, please point out what is not in the mission of a USMC infantry company?

The concept and history of LRRPs <Granted not the norm for a line company
Individual movement techniques <done to death
Small unit tactics/battle drills <MEUSOC bread and butter
Duties of the individual LRRP team members <same
How to call for artillery fire <IWLDMM baby!!!
How to call for air support <I know both Fixed and rotary
Combat aid and casevac <Done it in real lilfe
Area reconnaissance <Done in real life
Point reconnaissance <Done ino real life (where is Route recon BTW?)
Ambush <Done in real life
Prisoner snatch <trained for it durring my MEU work up but never had to do it.
Heavy team raid <Ive done fireteam all the way to Company raids
Company raid <Bread and buter of the MEUSOC
Combat search and destroy <now called hunter/killer... done it.
Combat search and rescue <TRAP teams did this for real, but we trained on it briefly
Quick Reaction Force operations < Done it
And much more than can be listed here
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:18:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:

I dont want to come off as a dick,


Never stopped a true asshole!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:28:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:

I dont want to come off as a dick,


Never stopped a true asshole!


glorious leader
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:42:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:

OK what ever dude. I dont want to come off as a dick, and I bet your school is pretty good, but 0311s do and have done EVERYTHING on that list with the possible Exception of a LRRP (though I did do a 9 day patrol to find and snatch a CENTCOM HVT (one of Zarqawis Lts).

Other than LRRP, please point out what is not in the mission of a USMC infantry company?

The concept and history of LRRPs <Granted not the norm for a line company
Individual movement techniques <done to death
Small unit tactics/battle drills <MEUSOC bread and butter
Duties of the individual LRRP team members <same
How to call for artillery fire <IWLDMM baby!!!
How to call for air support <I know both Fixed and rotary
Combat aid and casevac <Done it in real lilfe
Area reconnaissance <Done in real life
Point reconnaissance <Done ino real life (where is Route recon BTW?)
Ambush <Done in real life
Prisoner snatch <trained for it durring my MEU work up but never had to do it.
Heavy team raid <Ive done fireteam all the way to Company raids
Company raid <Bread and buter of the MEUSOC
Combat search and destroy <now called hunter/killer... done it.
Combat search and rescue <TRAP teams did this for real, but we trained on it briefly
Quick Reaction Force operations < Done it
And much more than can be listed here


Well great. How long have you been in? What is your rank? Which of those missions were you ON vs which did you LEAD? Which did you plan and coordinate? Which did you brief?

Now tell me what is the rank of the "average" Marine grunt? I'll tell you, PVT or maybe LCPL. What parts of these missions has he led? Briefed the opord for, done the coordination’s for? Most likely none. What parts has a SSGT done, probably a whole bunch. We are not running a grunt school, Recondo is/was a recon/commando school and a leadership school. The difference is the fact that the unit is extremely small, and that makes it MUCH different from the what the average grunt knows. Also every man leads, ever man does opords, does coordination’s, does debriefs. Just because the words look the same doesn't mean the task are completed the same when you are a very small element.

whatever your motivation for being in this thread I have no idea. But I have 23 years of service and have worked side by side with marine grunts plenty. I, as do the other instructors, know what Marines know (I am not saying we know there jobs as they do, but we know what they are capable of) They on the other hand do NOT know what we know. Hell I have at least 8 former marine infantrymen in my SF company, THEY don't know what I and the other instructors know about recon, and would learn at this course.

but maybe that is the difference, and why SF guys keep taking classes forever. We know what we don't know. Hell half the instructors can't wait to learn from the other instructors at this course. We being specialists at recon know we don't know everything about it.

But regardless, you are not coming to this course right?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:07:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:

OK what ever dude. I dont want to come off as a dick, and I bet your school is pretty good, but 0311s do and have done EVERYTHING on that list with the possible Exception of a LRRP (though I did do a 9 day patrol to find and snatch a CENTCOM HVT (one of Zarqawis Lts).

Other than LRRP, please point out what is not in the mission of a USMC infantry company?

The concept and history of LRRPs <Granted not the norm for a line company
Individual movement techniques <done to death
Small unit tactics/battle drills <MEUSOC bread and butter
Duties of the individual LRRP team members <same
How to call for artillery fire <IWLDMM baby!!!
How to call for air support <I know both Fixed and rotary
Combat aid and casevac <Done it in real lilfe
Area reconnaissance <Done in real life
Point reconnaissance <Done ino real life (where is Route recon BTW?)
Ambush <Done in real life
Prisoner snatch <trained for it durring my MEU work up but never had to do it.
Heavy team raid <Ive done fireteam all the way to Company raids
Company raid <Bread and buter of the MEUSOC
Combat search and destroy <now called hunter/killer... done it.
Combat search and rescue <TRAP teams did this for real, but we trained on it briefly
Quick Reaction Force operations < Done it
And much more than can be listed here


Well great. How long have you been in? What is your rank? Which of those missions were you ON vs which did you LEAD? Which did you plan and coordinate? Which did you brief?

Now tell me what is the rank of the "average" Marine grunt? I'll tell you, PVT or maybe LCPL. What parts of these missions has he led? Briefed the opord for, done the coordination’s for? Most likely none. What parts has a SSGT done, probably a whole bunch. We are not running a grunt school, Recondo is/was a recon/commando school and a leadership school. The difference is the fact that the unit is extremely small, and that makes it MUCH different from the what the average grunt knows. Also every man leads, ever man does opords, does coordination’s, does debriefs. Just because the words look the same doesn't mean the task are completed the same when you are a very small element.

whatever your motivation for being in this thread I have no idea. But I have 23 years of service and have worked side by side with marine grunts plenty. I, as do the other instructors, know what Marines know (I am not saying we know there jobs as they do, but we know what they are capable of) They on the other hand do NOT know what we know. Hell I have at least 8 former marine infantrymen in my SF company, THEY don't know what I and the other instructors know about recon, and would learn at this course.

but maybe that is the difference, and why SF guys keep taking classes forever. We know what we don't know. Hell half the instructors can't wait to learn from the other instructors at this course. We being specialists at recon know we don't know everything about it.

But regardless, you are not coming to this course right?



Times are tough. If I had $2,200 to blow I may just go. Theres no doubt that I would learn lots of stuff, but I learn everytime I go to the field and run a range.

I think the whole point that DF and I were making at the begining was that we have been trained on this stuff. We may not be MASTERS, but we know it. You came off sounding insulted by the notion that non recon Marines know a good portion of this material.

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