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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2005 4:47:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:13:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 6:15:18 PM EDT by Justy]
This story has hit home with me. I only know what I have read but it is close to where I live and spend time. I find myself carrying much less than I should but wonder if the day will come and find me not prepared. I can't help but think of it like a seatbelt you can wear one your whole life yet never have a need for having it on except that one day you find youreslf in a serious accident. The seatbelt is not a guarantee but it sure betters your chances. God bless him and his wifes soul.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:41:41 PM EDT
First rule of being the victim of a robbery whether you are armed or not is to COMPLY. Mr. Miller being in security should have had some training in "verbal judo." If he had chosen to comply and offer no resistance rather than exacerbating the situation, ("Some of his interactions with the man were "probably stupid," Miller acknowledged Wednesday.") perhaps a woman would be alive and all that would need to be replaced is money.

It is foolish for a 70+ year old man to egg on an assailant during a potential violent encounter. I feel bad that Mr. Miller lost his wife in the attack, but it makes me wonder what type of CCW training he received.

A tragedy indeed.

We live in a Fucked-up world.

Be Safe.

Joe

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:48:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:08:32 PM EDT
You carry a spare tire in the car.

It doesn't matter where you live or how safe you think you may be.

It will happen when you least expect it and are the least prepared.

John Lott showed that resistance is much better than just acquiescing to demands by a factor of 8.

This resistance is frowned on by authorities because ___(insert your reason here)___, basically resistance has risks, it makes the “protection” of the government look as impotent as it actually is. Resistance lowers the crime rate and it takes away the excuses for new laws that do nothing. The government likes pigeons, and hates eagles.

They missed the fact that 9-11 changed the rules.

You are on your own, be prepared.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:15:12 PM EDT
......Miller's wife, Julie, 68, who he said had offered the gunman money, lay dying in the Henderson couple's vehicle.

The offer of money did more to antagonize the assailant than satisfy him, Miller said.

" 'That's not good enough,' " he recalled the gunman saying. " 'I'm not kidding. I'm gonna kill you.' "........


Was the guy robbing them or just wanting to kill someone. I'm confused.

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:27:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MQ-1_Spec:

Was the guy robbing them or just wanting to kill someone. I'm confused.




Doing what I do, i see some pretty crazy individuals--teenagers that have been certified as adults for murder cases; home invasions where victims are gang raped; and other heinous shit. There are people out there with NO morals, no values, no restraints. No idea what biological or socioeconomic forces are at work, but it is what it is.

Very sad.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 1:03:20 AM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By longun45:
You carry a spare tire in the car.

It doesn't matter where you live or how safe you think you may be.

It will happen when you least expect it and are the least prepared.

John Lott showed that resistance is much better than just acquiescing to demands by a factor of 8.

This resistance is frowned on by authorities because ___(insert your reason here)___, basically resistance has risks, it makes the “protection” of the government look as impotent as it actually is. Resistance lowers the crime rate and it takes away the excuses for new laws that do nothing. The government likes pigeons, and hates eagles.

They missed the fact that 9-11 changed the rules.

You are on your own, be prepared.



I think John Lott speaks of resistance if you possess the tools to resist with. Evidently this victim (Miller) had the robber's gun in his hand several times. It appears that Miller didn't have any disarming skills, otherwise he would have taken possession of the robber's gun and turned the tables. He also didn't have any communication skills that may have de-escalated the situation. He, evidently by his own words, provoked the gunman to shoot.

We can Monday Morning QB this incident to no end. The stark reality is that the average Joe, armed or not, does not have the focus or the skills to react when a violent situation presents itself. Things change very quickly during violent confrontations whether a gun is trained on you or not.

The first rule of winning a gunfight is not to get into one. It appears that Miller provoked a gunfight that morning and the unfortunate thing for him is that he was the only one without a gun.

I agree with WP: "He would probably be dead if he had his gun with him. He sounds like a stubborn, bitter old man. He lost his wife over a few bucks, I'm sure it would have taken him a good 7 seconds to take the seatbelt off, lift his shirt and get the gun out of the holster it hasn't been out of for the last 5 years. The only other way I see this is shithead shooting at the bad guy as he is running away and possibly hitting someone not involved or hitting the fleeing bad guy which lands him in jail."

Be Safe.

Joe
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:46:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MQ-1_Spec:
......Miller's wife, Julie, 68, who he said had offered the gunman money, lay dying in the Henderson couple's vehicle.

The offer of money did more to antagonize the assailant than satisfy him, Miller said.

" 'That's not good enough,' " he recalled the gunman saying. " 'I'm not kidding. I'm gonna kill you.' "........


Was the guy robbing them or just wanting to kill someone. I'm confused.




I agree, sounds like he didn't care for the money...

I can't imagine not having carried the one day that I got robbed and my wife died because of it. Even if I had dided in the shootout, I'd rather have tried to defend myself than be at the mercy of a SCUMBAG.

I have been at the mercy of a robber with a gun, and luckily he spared me and my companion. I don't ever want to have that feeling again though, the feeling of having no control whatsoever.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:34:00 PM EDT
And people wonder why I carry everywhere I go.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:33:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ANIMUS:
And people wonder why I carry everywhere I go.



+1 to that....

On the other hand, if a person chooses to carry everywhere they go they must have the training and wherewithal to employ their defensive weapon.

Nothing personal here Animus, but there are a lot of people with CCW's that don't have a clue as to how to use their defensive handgun (or other firearms) for self-defense (take it from me as an instructor).

Firing 200 rounds every six months in a climate controlled, non-hostile environment with little or no stress inducement presents a false sense of security (and the John Wayne Syndrome)..... and that will get you and/or innocents killed in a heartbeat.

Also, just because person is carrying a defensive weapon does not mean that weapon must be employed every time. I would rather be robbed while carrying a gun CCW and not have to use it (and live to tell the story), as opposed to try and "one up" the robber and get myself or an innocent killed.

Personally, if I were being robbed at gunpoint and if I felt that my handling skills and training were employable at the precise moment, then I would most likely engage the threat and hopefully win the fight.

Once again: "The best way to win a gunfight is not to get into one."

Nuff Said....

Be Safe.

Joe
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:37:57 PM EDT
This also struck home for me. I work in that area and live very close to the Suncoast.

Many people in Summerlin have a "It can't happen here" way of thinking.

I can't help but think that if Miller's doctor appointment was on MLK he would have carried for sure. Instead, he went unarmed to Summerlin and look where it got him.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:49:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ishoot2live:

Originally Posted By ANIMUS:
And people wonder why I carry everywhere I go.



+1 to that....

On the other hand, if a person chooses to carry everywhere they go they must have the training and wherewithal to employ their defensive weapon.

Nothing personal here Animus, but there are a lot of people with CCW's that don't have a clue as to how to use their defensive handgun (or other firearms) for self-defense (take it from me as an instructor).

Firing 200 rounds every six months in a climate controlled, non-hostile environment with little or no stress inducement presents a false sense of security (and the John Wayne Syndrome)..... and that will get you and/or innocents killed in a heartbeat.

Also, just because person is carrying a defensive weapon does not mean that weapon must be employed every time. I would rather be robbed while carrying a gun CCW and not have to use it (and live to tell the story), as opposed to try and "one up" the robber and get myself or an innocent killed.

Personally, if I were being robbed at gunpoint and if I felt that my handling skills and training were employable at the precise moment, then I would most likely engage the threat and hopefully win the fight.

Once again: "The best way to win a gunfight is not to get into one."

Nuff Said....

Be Safe.

Joe



I agree. I do have the training to match the responsibility of a CCW. Merely owning or carrying a weapon isn't an answer to anyones problems and usually makes things worse. I hate that line of thought that guns are automatic problem solvers.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:06:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 7:07:43 AM EDT by chiz45]
Obviously, situational awareness plays a key role here. I wonder at what point did the victim see the killer--sounds like it was as the V was opening his door. Was the killer hiding behind cars? Walking through the lot like an ordinary guy? Did the V see him at any point prior to the confrontation?

I have two little girls, ages 2.5 and 9 mos. Whenever the wife and i leave the car, we're going to the rear seats to extract; as we return, we're putting strollers in the rear, and buckling in the kiddies. I keep my ear trained, and glance around frequently, but let's face it, there are LOTS of opportunities for distractions--child falling out of the seat; a spilled beverage; a dirty diaper. There have been a few times that i was all alone in a parking lot, and then suddenly, there's a kid or someone brushing right past me! Aggravating, from a personal protection point of view.

Threat avoidance is my #1 option. I had a good example of this the other day, as i was driving to the ATM. Earlier this month, our bookkeeper was the victim of an attempted larceny from a person. A guy rode up behind her on a bike and tried to grab her purse. Being a quiet, demure Italian woman from Jersey, she uttered "Try that again, and I'll KILL YOU you cocksucker!"

I went to the same bank, and sitting near the ATM were three dirty, seedy looking fellows. I was "armed"--and i use the word loosely, as it was with only a Keltec P32--and thought 'nah, i don't the $40 THAT bad.'

.

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