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Posted: 8/16/2004 2:25:07 PM EST
If a cop friend of mine bought a Kimber from Your buddy Walter at LE Equip, could he sell it to me< or is it forever doomed to be owned by Law Enforcement.....?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:12:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 4:29:19 AM EST by LenS]
I hope you're being facetious about Walter being my "friend"!! Anybody who tries to stiff me by charging sales tax on gun safes, even AFTER being given two copies of the MA DOR ruling that made them sales tax exempt is NO FRIEND of mine!

Now to your question:
- The AG Regs allow guns that are NOT approved by the AG to be sold to LEOs and LE agencies.
- HOWEVER, MGL from Ch 180 of the Acts of 1998 does NOT allow such an exemption for LEOs and LE agencies. Therefore, after the "List" was first published, ONLY those on the List can be sold to LEOs and LE agencies by MA DEALERS!! [Therefore, the LEOs and LE agencies can order from NON-MA dealers if they want to - individual LEOs would have to have the LE agency order the guns and then make the transfer to the LEO.
- Any non-List handguns can NOT be re-sold by a MA FFL, but an individual owner (LEO) could sell it privately.
- LE Only mags can NOT be sold to any non-LEO in MA, even after the Fed Ban expires. The MA parallel ban has NO EXPIRATION! No Post-9/13/04 mags that are >10 rds can be possessed in MA, except by LEOs (purchased strictly for LE purposes although they can be carried off-duty).

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 3:06:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 3:08:24 AM EST by CFFuts]
Try Richard at We Are Guns. He can often track down new or like new Kimbers. Richard is a stand up guy and I've purchased from him with no problems in the past.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:40:11 AM EST
If the gun can't legally be sold by a MA dealer, neither Richard or Walter can help you!

If it was "in state" on 10/21/98, regardless of who bought it and how, and it can be documented as such; then any dealer can do the transaction.

Any hi-cap mags made AFTER 9/13/94 (including those marked LE Only) are FOREVER banned in MA. Anyone moving into MA with them becomes an instant felon! I'm not even positive that an individual LEO can possess them (unless they are Department owned) - and I don't have time now to research it. [The exemption for LEOs was in the Fed law, not sure if it is also in the MA law.]

"Un-approved" handguns can still be freely bought and sold from NON-FFLs in MA. The 1998 law was a restriction of sales by FFLs, not common citizens! The problem is that only FFLs can buy handguns from outside MA, thus our "pool" of "Un-approved" handguns is very limited (the owner must be a MA resident).
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 1:45:40 PM EST
I certainly did mean it as a joke, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:23:42 AM EST
Len, I agree and your legal summary is correct. At the same time there is a network of non-FFLs that can often trade or sell 'unapproved' handguns legally. The best way to get an 'unapproved' handgun is to get the word out to as many people as possible.

If you are looking for a Kimber, talk to Walter, Richard, Carl, or any other dealer you are comfortable working with. Then when someone comes in to sell his 'unapproved' Kimber, the dealer can contact you and a private transfer can be arranged. Most dealers will do this if you simply buy your ammo or some other gear at the store.



Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:04:07 AM EST
Excellent point! Too bad I don't have the spare money now to buy anything.

I have an excellent relationship with Carl (Four Seasons, for lurkers ) and spoke with him yesterday as I'm probably bringing a friend up there shortly . . . he has 5 guns he wants to dispose of. Sadly the guns were not well cared for and thus the value is going to disappoint him.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:43:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By CFFuts:
Len, I agree and your legal summary is correct. At the same time there is a network of non-FFLs that can often trade or sell 'unapproved' handguns legally. The best way to get an 'unapproved' handgun is to get the word out to as many people as possible.

If you are looking for a Kimber, talk to Walter, Richard, Carl, or any other dealer you are comfortable working with. Then when someone comes in to sell his 'unapproved' Kimber, the dealer can contact you and a private transfer can be arranged. Most dealers will do this if you simply buy your ammo or some other gear at the store.





Would this be legal? It would still have to be registered right?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:28:27 PM EST
Propguy,

Perfectly legal. Any LTC holder can transfer privately up to 4 guns/year (handguns or rifles) to another LTC holder. Yes, you fill out the FA-10 transaction form but since the seller is NOT a Dealer, this is perfectly legal.

All the AG and MGL testing/List BS ONLY restricts MA Dealers from doing the transaction.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:17:19 AM EST
They / it would have to be in state? And also be able to show proof of this? Or ..........
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 2:31:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 2:40:38 AM EST by CFFuts]
Yes, it must be an in state transfer and the FA-10 form has a box where you are required to list the buyer's license information. If you transfer a firearm to someone without a proper license (wrong class, expired license, etc.) I'm sure someone would eventually come a knockin' at your door.

If a MA resident somehow gains possession of a firearm without going through a MA dealer, they are required to fill in a FA-10 form and register the gun with the state, for example, if you inherit a gun from an uncle that lived in NY. The samething goes for a gun that I give to an out of state family member. Depending on the state the gun was transferred to, the new owner may or may not have to register the gun.

I've heard talk at the club that this is the way a lot of 'unapproved' guns are making there way into MA. A relative in another state gives a 'unapproved' gun to a MA resident. I've also heard about people taking orders for a handful of guns before moving to the state - which I believe violates the Federal (straw purchase) law and the state law since you can't legally transfer more than four guns in one year or you are considered a dealer. There are also a significant number of dealers that still are and were selling 'unapproved' guns. Some of these dealers (please don't ask me for names) are in court now fighting the AG so they won't have to pay the fine.

To get back on topic, there are a number of legal ways to get 'unapproved' guns into the state and you simply have to get the word out that you are looking for a new X model.
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