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Posted: 12/25/2006 5:09:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2006 5:12:02 PM EST by GeorgeW2004]
First off, Merry Christmas to all. Hopefully no one is going through the BS I am going through this XMAS, Which brings me to my question: Once you file a police report and deny the right to press charges on an individual, can you change your mind and follow through with pressing charges at a later date...say 48 hours? The county is Hancock and the charge is simple battery if that makes any difference. Thanks a lot.
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 5:27:20 PM EST
simple battery is a misd. and you can go to the mag court and swear out the warrant yourself.
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 5:33:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By k9dpd:
simple battery is a misd. and you can go to the mag court and swear out the warrant yourself.


Thanks K9. What does this mean? My girlfriend was punched in the mouth and a statement was given at the Sherrif's office. The Deputy really wanted to go arrest this woman but my girlfriend decided not to press charges at the time. Do you know what steps she should take from here on out if she chooses to press charges?

FYI - the incident happened at noon on Sunday if that's of any importance
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 6:40:47 PM EST
she can go to the court house and swear out the warrant herself, she doesnt need the officer to do it, she just needs the other partys name, all that information should be on the police report.
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 1:48:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2006 1:48:31 PM EST by MAT-49]
I'm sorry to hear this happening to your GF and I hope she's doing ok.

But I take it that she wasn't carrying when she was assaulted?
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 4:06:22 PM EST
And it will prob cost $10. Punched her? Did it leave a mark?? If so it would be a Battery (felony).
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 4:35:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOUGHERTY03:
And it will prob cost $10. Punched her? Did it leave a mark?? If so it would be a Battery (felony).


Battery in this case would still be a misdemeanor
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 5:16:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2006 7:12:35 PM EST by broncobisley1]
Good luck, hopefully they will do something.

BTW for those interested,Hancock County has had a lot of problems with corruption in the past 10 years. It's also one if not still the poorest counties in the state due to most of the would be taxpayers fleeing due to a variety of reasons.

Speaking of which I need to make a pitstop in White Plains to pick up some B-bque from Holcombs B-bque.

edited to clarify: above wasn't in reference to the police in Hancock county, just the local Gov't.
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 6:52:37 PM EST
Take many pics of the wound to establish your case. Then meet with the magistrate judge and schedule a warrant hearing to press charges.

Good luck
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 7:52:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By MAT-49:
I'm sorry to hear this happening to your GF and I hope she's doing ok.

But I take it that she wasn't carrying when she was assaulted?


What difference would it make? It's not like you can shoot somebody for a punch in the mouth.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 11:02:55 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Stasher1:
height=8
Originally Posted By MAT-49:
I'm sorry to hear this happening to your GF and I hope she's doing ok.

But I take it that she wasn't carrying when she was assaulted? hat


http://www.lightningarms.com/images/foxlabs/image011.jpg

http://www.lightningarms.com/images/foxlabs/image005.gif
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 11:45:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2006 11:54:32 AM EST by mattellis2]

Originally Posted By broncobisley1:
Good luck, hopefully they will do something.

BTW for those interested,Hancock County has had a lot of problems with corruption in the past 10 years. It's also one if not still the poorest counties in the state due to most of the would be taxpayers fleeing due to a variety of reasons.

Speaking of which I need to make a pitstop in White Plains to pick up some B-bque from Holcombs B-bque.

edited to clarify: above wasn't in reference to the police in Hancock county, just the local Gov't.


you must be talking about good ol melvin williams. guy stole like 100K from the schoolboard, spent 6 months in a country club jail in florida (i think) and is now being considered for an appointment to the housing board by macon's illustrious mayor. gotta love politicians.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 8:46:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stasher1:

Originally Posted By MAT-49:
I'm sorry to hear this happening to your GF and I hope she's doing ok.

But I take it that she wasn't carrying when she was assaulted?


What difference would it make? It's not like you can shoot somebody for a punch in the mouth.


Unless you were in fear for your life....

Which brings me to this. At what point in an assault can you shoot someone? Not gonna hold anyone to this legally. But If I am minding my own. Some big guy comes up and pops me, then proceeds to beat me.....At what point do I just shoot him and get it over with? Or am I supposed to just let it happen? I dont carry a knife or mace...

If I wait till I got down and hes on top of me then pump 3 or 4 into him would I be safe?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 6:54:28 AM EST
If it was me. I would make contact with the deputy that you spoke with first. The one that wanted to arrest the accused. Tell him that you and your gf have thought about the incident and because he did such a fine job of investigating that you would like to press charges.

I am guessing that he would be the one to press charges. If he presses the charges it would look better in court. If he does not take the warrant you can always take the warrant yourself.

Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:12:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
Which brings me to this. At what point in an assault can you shoot someone? Not gonna hold anyone to this legally. But If I am minding my own. Some big guy comes up and pops me, then proceeds to beat me.....At what point do I just shoot him and get it over with? Or am I supposed to just let it happen? I dont carry a knife or mace...

If I wait till I got down and hes on top of me then pump 3 or 4 into him would I be safe?


Obviously, not a lawyer here or anything but.....

It really depends. For the average male, it is going to be very difficult to prove that you were in fear of your life for shooting an unarmed man. I would imagine that you can count on being indicted in a Grand Jury and having to go to trial. You may get off, but it'll cost you.
I'm 6'1" and 275#'s, I would have a very hard time proving that I was in fear of my life against most people unless the person is a known Martial Arts expert or some other exceptional circumstance. A 5'5" 120# guy going against a 300# man may be a different story.
Now a 5' nothing woman or an elderly man using a cane going against me-that would be a lot easier to prove the "fear for your life" part.
It really depends on the totality of the circumstances. Did you have an opportunity to flee, Did you start the confrontation, etc. But speaking in general terms, I will say that it is a lot more difficult for us men to prove being in fear of your life than a woman when dealing with deadly force and either way it's gonna be presented to a Grand Jury for them to decide to pursue further action.
As for carrying just a gun, that's kind of shortsighted. VSP articulated a pretty good post regarding Larry G's recent incident. You want to have options to choose from if needed.
A knife is out, because that's a deadly weapon (same level of force as your gun), OC (Pepper Spray) is an option-but I can't stand the stuff. When I carry off duty, I'm usually armed with my Kahr P9 or Glock as well as a small ASP baton (Collapsible baton). Going to the gun is the "Nuclear" option, but if needed I have bodily force (closed fist/pressure points, arm bars, etc) and the baton if I need to escalate it a step above that. The baton is the 18" model and is about the size of a roll of quarters, so it's not exactly in the way.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:16:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chokker:
If it was me. I would make contact with the deputy that you spoke with first. The one that wanted to arrest the accused. Tell him that you and your gf have thought about the incident and because he did such a fine job of investigating that you would like to press charges.

If it's been this long, he'll probably advise her to get warrants herself. I'm surprised that he didn't do that in the first place as it's rare to take someone to jail for Simple Battery unless it's witnessed by us or the Perp admitts to it.


I am guessing that he would be the one to press charges. If he presses the charges it would look better in court. If he does not take the warrant you can always take the warrant yourself.

Not necessarily, regardless of who presents the case, the Magistrate Judge still needs to approve the Warrant. Usually for Officers, the Judge will sign it right there. However, when regular Citizens apply for a Warrant, very rarely will the Judge sign a Warrant. Usually he'll do a Warrant Application Hearing where both sides would present there side of the story and the Judge determines then if he'll sign an Arrest Warrant.

Either way, a Magistrate Judge has heard sworn testimony to authorize and Arrest Warrant.


Link Posted: 12/29/2006 11:47:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:

Originally Posted By Stasher1:

Originally Posted By MAT-49:
I'm sorry to hear this happening to your GF and I hope she's doing ok.

But I take it that she wasn't carrying when she was assaulted?


What difference would it make? It's not like you can shoot somebody for a punch in the mouth.


Unless you were in fear for your life....

Which brings me to this. At what point in an assault can you shoot someone? Not gonna hold anyone to this legally. But If I am minding my own. Some big guy comes up and pops me, then proceeds to beat me.....At what point do I just shoot him and get it over with? Or am I supposed to just let it happen? I dont carry a knife or mace...

If I wait till I got down and hes on top of me then pump 3 or 4 into him would I be safe?


If your attacker is large enough to cause you to fear for your life and already has you down on the ground giving you an beating, odds are pretty good that if you draw your weapon, he'll take it from you and finish you off right then and there.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 12:30:18 PM EST
I dont go for that takeing a gun, If hes on top of me, chances are hes gonna be swinging, and not really paying attention to my hands, and I wouldnt bring it to his attention that I have the gun, It would come out, and 3 or 4 rounds across the body, I wouldnt bring it up to his chest or face. I have been in enough street fights to know from the first couple of punches of I can take said opponent. In a situation where I thought all was lost, I would take "Immediate action" before I was pummeled to the point where I couldnt handle it anymore...
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 5:02:57 PM EST
You should be committed to avoidance,deterrance and de-escalation if you carry a firearm for self defense. That has been my number one goal if the SHTF.

Its good to consider a less lethal option in your battery. Always try to have first initiative if you cannot avoid or deter the situation. That doesn't always happen at bad breath distances but try to stack the odds in your favor whenever possible when necessary.

In fight weapon access is not an easy task. The last thing you ever want to happen is to lose your weapon or allow the BG to get his hands on it. Now....in the situation where the BG knows you are carrying a firearm and trys to take it from you,the confrontation has just become deadly for you and lethal force may be justifiable depending on the events that caused and led up to the fight. Remember avoid,deter and de-escalate.
Also remember that if you are going somewhere that you need to carry a gun.....you probably should not be there.
If it ever comes to a fut and you are carrying your firearm....its suggested to have some training in HTH and most likely groundfighting technique. Fights don't stay standing for long.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:01:36 PM EST
Bullett, I am pretty well versed in hand to hand, and especially ground combat. A short guy like me had the best chance on the ground, and thats usually where I take it, Unless I get into a fight with a "Rotund" person, then maybe I would just run around them a few times to get them tired and dizzy. Then WHACK right in the bit and pieces.

Would this not fall under the new ga law about, the dut to defend yourself? What does that cover, only if they are using a weapon on me? Or if they are drunk and feel the need to fight with someone, I mean thats standing oyur ground, they person is commiting a crime, or would I have to wait untill they actually touch me and commit battery, before I could blast them.

No I wouldnt just shoot someone trying to fight with me, I like to think i would just send em on thier way in the nicest way that would get the point through to them, But Knowing me, I am more likely to tell em to piss off once, Then feed em a knuckle sandwich....I was just wondering for the record...
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 9:06:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 9:07:48 AM EST by Lawman734]

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
Would this not fall under the new ga law about, the dut to defend yourself? What does that cover, only if they are using a weapon on me? Or if they are drunk and feel the need to fight with someone, I mean thats standing oyur ground, they person is commiting a crime, or would I have to wait untill they actually touch me and commit battery, before I could blast them.



I've been looking up the "Stand Your Ground" Law and how it applies to this situation. Granted, when it comes to a Deadly Force situation, it will be more in the D.A's hands than an individual Officer/Investigators to pursue charges and an indictment, but here is how I'm interpreting it. Now othes, including Lawyers, Judges and D.A.'s may interpret it other ways, so this is my thoughts:


16-3-23.1.
A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force.



16-3-21.
(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other´s imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:
(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.
(c) Any rule, regulation, or policy of any agency of the state or any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, or policy of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision of the state which is in conflict with this Code section shall be null, void, and of no force and effect.
(d) In a prosecution for murder or manslaughter, if a defendant raises as a defense a justification provided by subsection (a) of this Code section, the defendant, in order to establish the defendant´s reasonable belief that the use of force or deadly force was immediately necessary, may be permitted to offer:
(1) Relevant evidence that the defendant had been the victim of acts of family violence or child abuse committed by the deceased, as such acts are described in Code Sections 19-13-1 and 19-15-1, respectively; and
(2) Relevant expert testimony regarding the condition of the mind of the defendant at the time of the offense, including those relevant facts and circumstances relating to the family violence or child abuse that are the bases of the expert´s opinion.



16-3-23.
A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other´s unlawful entry into or attack upon a habitation; however, such person is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:
(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner and he or she reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence;
(2) That force is used against another person who is not a member of the family or household and who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using such force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred; or
(3) The person using such force reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.



16-3-24.
(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other´s trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property:
(1) Lawfully in his possession;
(2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
(3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
(b) The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.



What I am reading is that you have no duty to retreat, as was the case prior to earlier of this year when S.B. 396 was signed into law however, you still have to meet the requirements for applying deadly force. So someone coming up and wanting to fight you isn't necessarily justification for deadly force.

Someone else, please correct me if I'm wrong....
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 9:41:34 AM EST
No, Iam not saying it would be justified to shoot some drunk that wants to fight. First try to turn the other cheek, Na, man I dont have any problem with you. If he persists, Get lost buddy. Then when he physically attacks you. Would it be a felony? Also, in this day and age, ANY TIME someone gets agressive with you. You should be to some degree, "In fear for your life" as you never know what nutjob, is gonna get road rage, or just be some junkie thats off his rocker. Especially with methamphetamines (sp.) reaching every walk of life.

Like, I said before, I would rather fight someone, then shoot them. But it depends on size and shape of the other person. I am a small guy, But have been known to handle more than my own. Now Even on 2 attackers, I would probably try to "Duke it out" probably by going for a knee to stop one instantly, to bring the odds to my favor.

Now when you get to 3 or more, Once I realize the threat is more than just a threat.....well, thats all she wrote.

But once again, I would have to say I would be more likely to shoot someone out of the gate if I had my wife and kids with me, Because after they are done with me, you never know what they are gonna do to them. Therefore I would be in fear for th lives of my family.

LAWMAN, at what point does assault become a felony.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 10:00:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 10:07:07 AM EST by Lawman734]

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
Then when he physically attacks you. Would it be a felony? Also, in this day and age, ANY TIME someone gets agressive with you. You should be to some degree, "In fear for your life" as you never know what nutjob, is gonna get road rage, or just be some junkie thats off his rocker. Especially with methamphetamines (sp.) reaching every walk of life.

Now when you get to 3 or more, Once I realize the threat is more than just a threat.....well, thats all she wrote.

LAWMAN, at what point does assault become a felony.


To pick through your post-in most all cases where bodily force is involved, it is a Misdemeanor. If someone hits you and doesn't leave a mark, it's Simple Battery (16-5-23) if he does leave a mark, then it is Battery (16-5-23.1). Extend the bodily force to someone with a gun, knife, broken beer bottle, bat, pipe, etc and now you've reached into an area where if he merely threatens you with it, it could be Aggravated Assault (16-5-21) and if he hits you with them, breaking bones, disfiguring you, etc then it is Aggravated Battery (16-5-24), which are both felonies. Remember, the above also covers the threat of a forcible felony. So, say that a little guy like you, with no USMC ground fighting training, etc (admittedly, not you and could be any training) and is encountered by someone noticable larger who threatens that he'll break every bone in your body, or will "fucking kill you", even though no weapon is present-that person can make a reasonable justification of using deadly force. Of course, if he has the chance to get away first, that would be better. The law says you don't have an obligation to get away, it doesn't mean that doing so is a bad idea though.

Now I agree with you, that you should treat any potentially violent encounter with someone as being in fear of your life-but for us discussing hypotheticals, etc that is good tactics, not necessarily something that when presented to a Grand Jury will let you walk. In the case of being in a heated encounter and the other person presents a dangerous or potentially dangerous weapon, then Deadly Force would be justifed.

We could present a million different scenarios and determine if deadly force is applicable. The bottom line is that every case is unique in it's own way and that we all need to try to mentally prepare for every encounter if possible. In the Marines, whenever on a patrol I would always try to mentally prepare for the "what if"-What if they start shooting from over there, what if someone throws a grenade towards me-where's my cover and what will I do. The same applies to when I go into a house for a domestic-what if they turn on me, what if someone presents a weapon. The same should apply for each and every one of us when we go about our business. Granted, we can't always avoid trouble, but by doing that I think we can avoid most all potentially dangerous encounters by doing that. Which is why usually the people walking around with no situational awareness whatsoever are the ones who are often presented with bad situations.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 7:55:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 7:56:01 PM EST by DOUGHERTY03]

Originally Posted By k9dpd:

Originally Posted By DOUGHERTY03:
And it will prob cost $10. Punched her? Did it leave a mark?? If so it would be a Battery (felony).


Battery in this case would still be a misdemeanor


Duh, read the question wrong, thought it involved DV.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 8:18:44 PM EST
Your right about what iffing, lawman, I still do the same thing. Always looking for cover, at malls and restaraunts, But I have found that I only do it in places that are crowded. Cause nobody goes on a shooting rampage at eddies trick shop, or any small shops, Not that it couldnt happen. I just feel more secure and relaxed in small, places where there arent alot of people. I also try to practice what I call "confrontation avoidance" and try to teach my wife too think about it too. Its basically thinking ahead abotu what your doing....and not putting yourself in a potentially bad situation. Example: If I had a female friend whos husband was a nut, who called me up and invited me to go to "Enter destination here" I would either say no, or have the wife with me. Reason Being, SOmenes gonna see us, and its probably gona get back to him, hes gonna blow up, and come try to start a fight with me, or hurt her. I avoid the confrontation from stage 1 by Not doing it or having the wife with me, hence not being alone with her. Being a former jelous guy, I know how it feels to have a friend call me and say, Hey I saw your girl at XXXXXX with that mark guy....

basically it all boils down to thinking ahead and wondering, "Whats gonna happen if I do this" or, not going into that area where there may be undesireables.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 6:00:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 6:09:02 AM EST by Lawman734]

Originally Posted By DOUGHERTY03:

Originally Posted By k9dpd:

Originally Posted By DOUGHERTY03:
And it will prob cost $10. Punched her? Did it leave a mark?? If so it would be a Battery (felony).


Battery in this case would still be a misdemeanor


Duh, read the question wrong, thought it involved DV.


Either way, Simple Battery for Family Violence is still a Misdemeanor. Battery is a Felony only upon the 3rd conviction against the same victim in a situation of Family Violence.

7.62BD, you're absolutely right on and I think most of us who responsibly carry (or even when we are not carrying) practice that to an extent. I think it's more of a tactical mindset more than anything and there's nothing "wannabe" about it when you try to foresee area's of potential trouble. It's funny that you mention your feelings about crowded areas. If I'm in an area where it's difficult or impossible to keep those you don't know more than an arms length from me (like the malls at Christmas, or downtown on New Years Eve), I get extrememly uncomfortable and want to get out of the area as soon as possible. My wife thinks I'm crazy for being like that, but then again I'm still trying to get her to realize shw can't be oblivious to her surroundings. Granted, she's much, much better than she used to be-but she still needs work.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 9:48:36 AM EST
Yeah, I remember one fof the major rules in boot camp was alwatys stay one arms distance form the DIs. I try to teach my kids, nieces and nephiews not to get too close to people they dont know, We had a meeting at work the other day and the owner of the company was there, Hes from lebanon*, I ended up setting up front, which I already dont like having several people behind me. Btu he kept walking REALLY close to me while he was talking, like close enough that i could touch him. And I could really feel my stress level shoot sky high when he was close and lower while he was farther away. So I came up with the idea to stretch my legs out so he couldnt walk close to me, After that all was fine.

And your absolutely corect about faking it, I have know people who go out of thier way to sit in the corner and stuff like that. To me, I would prefer a back corner, But I dont make a big deal out of it, as while they are making a big deal about finding the safest booth, I already have mapped out the whole joint. And the ones who are faking pick the obvious safe places, If its obvious, its not safe. Thats just something you learn......
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