In short, I live in a gated community with it's own home owners rules. We are legally allowed to ride 4-wheelers on the streets because it is a gated community, private property. We have been riding on a vacant 1 acre lot in the community. I get a letter from the HOA stating we are trespassing on private property and if we don't stop legal actions will follow. (legal actions being a lein on my property)

My questions are this, we are already on private property because we are in a gated community but is it illeagal to ride on a vacant lot if there is no "no trespassing" posted? And two, does there have to be a "no trespassing" visible for the offender to see to know that he/she is in violation of trespassing?

I have been told by a police officer before that since i live in a gated community the police cannot enter to write a traffice citation, example speeding or running a stop sign. They can only enter for criminal offenses.

I thought ARFCOM might be able to shed some light on this issue.
Thanks in advance, rbailey

I'm an intellectual property attorney in Texas (specifically a civil litigator), so admittedly I'm no expert in criminal or property law, but I'll give you my initial assessment that may give you some guidance.  First off, just because you are on "private property" doesn't mean criminal laws do not apply, and while trespassing is a civil tort, it is also a criminal violation (See Tx. Penal Code 30.05).  Now I don't know the details of what notice you may have had regarding the "private property" of the lot owner, but assuming that it is a lot owned by somebody (not you, personally), then you need some kind of statutory notice at least as far as criminal trespass goes (again, see 30.05).  With all due respect, look at the situation from the owner of the lot (whether he plans to build a house on it or sell it to a builder for profit), it is his land and just as you can keep trespassers off your land (I'm betting you don't have "no trespassing" signs up either) he has every right to keep recreational vehicle users off of his land.  Additionally, remember that just because your gated community is made up of private property, does not mean that the residents can declare it a sovereign nation and cede from the U.S. (or on a realistic scale, ignore U.S. laws).  Even if your community is not served by city utility services or the like, it is still on U.S. soil.  Hope this helps.  

Quoted: Seems like you are in violation of the HA rules, not the Texas Penal code since the penalty is not criminal. You may want to read that and see what it says.

+ 1 based on my 11 years in the Real Estate Profession.   Someone in your HOA has become angry with you.   HOA's are usually not friendly towards such redneck childish behavior.   DO the right thing....MOVE!!!! Get to the sticks as fast as you can!  

I actually live in a very small subdivision JUST outside our city limits (less than 1 mile outside) and I'm on a 1 acre lot.   My 6 year old and I ride our 4 wheelers all the time in the neighborhood and I shoot my silenced .22 all the time in my back yard.  If I put together a new .223, or 9mm, I can get away with racking of a few rounds without upsetting anyone.  Guns are just a common thing around here.   Everyone has them.   It's great living in a VERY small town in NE TX!  

Wait....that's not all true....Actually, it sucks!   Nothing but libtards!   No one has a gun around here but me.   I have to drive 3 hours to shoot mine.  4 wheelers!  No way, people think they are just a way to transport guns!  
(whew...maybe that worked and demand won't go up!)

TxAggie brings up some good points about where laws apply. One of the more common questions that I am asked about at work is about private property and what it means.

There are two "P" words that people often confuse as far as the law is concerned. Those are PRIVATE Property and PUBLIC Place. As an officer I have heard many people say something like....  "but it was private property".

Private property can very much be a public place. A store parking lot is private property as far as ownership. It is owned by an individual or by a company. They have complete control over the property. Just because it is private property does not mean that the parking lot or the interior of the store is not "public" however. When laws say that something is illegal in a "public place", ownership has almost no bearing. It is access that is the determining factor.

The Texas Penal Code defines Public Place as - "Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops". Obviously, in most cases shops, office buildings, hospitals, etc., are privately owned. They are still very much a public place under many laws.

This applies to laws such as carrying weapons, sexual conduct, disorderly conduct, public intoxication, DWI, some assaults, etc. You can't have sex in the middle aisle of your Wal-Mart just because it is private property.

That means even in your gated community, much of it is a public place even though it may be private property.

We as LE cannot enforce the usual traffic laws in a gated subdivision.  

On that note the property you ride your 4 wheeler on belongs to someone, not you, and you have now been given notice to stay off it.  Since you received that notice you could now charged with criminal trespass if the property owner wanted to pursue it.  

Think about this...if you owned that 1 acre and did nothing with it and left it vacant and you had people riding their 4 wheelers on it what would you think?

You might want to find out if the streets inside the gated area were dedicated to the city / county / state upon completion. If so, gated or not, you are difing ATV's on a public roadway - a big no-no which I have done many times myself. I know of gated communities here in Houston which have gates yet the streets inside are public roadways. I had to know they were before I entered to work surveillance as a PI in numerous cases.

If there are "no trespassing" signs, or even putple paint on trees marking the area, I would stay our or else risk a class B misdemeanor conviction - and no CHL for many years. I enjoy riding my ATV and dirt bike on un-posted land with the owner's approval, but damn sure wouldn't want anyone riding on MY front yard...

I am an ex-LEO, ex-pi, and now a SIU invvestigator for a Texas carrier. I have seen these types of things throughout the years. Like someone else stated: someone in the HOA is pissed at you. Best advice is do what I did: get on the board of trustees, or become a board officer - 3 years ago, I became a trustee (somehow).

Once you get on the board, you soon find out no matter how big of a redneck you think you are, there is always some idiot out there who wants to be a bigger, louder, lest tasteful redneck. We have been battling problem individuals for a couple of years.

Better yet, as also mentioned earlier, excape surburbia and get some land in the country!

quote: "tasteful redneck"

pics?

t

Quoted: We as LE cannot enforce the usual traffic laws in a gated subdivision.   On that note the property you ride your 4 wheeler on belongs to someone, not you, and you have now been given notice to stay off it.  Since you received that notice you could now charged with criminal trespass if the property owner wanted to pursue it.   Think about this...if you owned that 1 acre and did nothing with it and left it vacant and you had people riding their 4 wheelers on it what would you think?

What this guy said.

On another note, find out who owns the land and see if they will lease it to you for the taxes.  That way it is sitting there not really costing them anything, then you can ride on it.  Or, you could just buy it as an investment.

HAHAHA

In last neighbor hood - I lived in the gated section.
Had many people that did not like me.
I rode 4 wheeler and golf cart all ver the place.
Called cops, etc.

Anyhow -
Cops said that was ok in gates but not outside.

As for the property.

STAY OFF OF IT.

It is someone elses.

Quoted: Quoted: Seems like you are in violation of the HA rules, not the Texas Penal code since the penalty is not criminal. You may want to read that and see what it says. + 1 based on my 11 years in the Real Estate Profession.   Someone in your HOA has become angry with you.   HOA's are usually not friendly towards such redneck childish behavior.   DO the right thing....MOVE!!!! Get to the sticks as fast as you can!   I actually live in a very small subdivision JUST outside our city limits (less than 1 mile outside) and I'm on a 1 acre lot.   My 6 year old and I ride our 4 wheelers all the time in the neighborhood and I shoot my silenced .22 all the time in my back yard.  If I put together a new .223, or 9mm, I can get away with racking of a few rounds without upsetting anyone.  Guns are just a common thing around here.   Everyone has them.   It's great living in a VERY small town in NE TX!   Wait....that's not all true....Actually, it sucks!   Nothing but libtards!   No one has a gun around here but me.   I have to drive 3 hours to shoot mine.  4 wheelers!  No way, people think they are just a way to transport guns!   (whew...maybe that worked and demand won't go up!)

+1 move to freedom. My dad live in a HA housing for a while I hated it bunch of rich old folks with nothing to do but  bitch. I will take my 20 mins from town 14 acre home any day same price as the ha homes.

Quoted: You might want to find out if the streets inside the gated area were dedicated to the city / county / state upon completion.

I did find out that the these streets were dedicated to the HOA when completed and any changes have to be voted in and the HOA cannot simply hang a sign posting "no 4-wheelers" I also contacted the HOA president about this issue and found out I am not the first person to complain about the new management company now ruling our HOA. It seems this company has been over seeing this HOA for the 2006 year and has had other complaints about their "aggressive" attitude towards other home owners. I was told by the HOA president that we are in our trial phase with this company.

Quoted: Seems like you are in violation of the HA rules, not the Texas Penal code since the penalty is not criminal. You may want to read that and see what it says.

I have reviewed the HOA rules and there is nothing that states any restrictions on motorized vehicles of any type.

TxAggie, thanks for the input. I looked up penal code 30.05 and section (B)(2)(a) states "oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner". I guess that would explain the management company acting on the behalf of the property owner even though no signs posted.  As a parent I felt it safer to teach my kids to ride on a vacant lot (no house) rather than in the private streets where cars drive up and down. This isn't the firts time a vacant lot has been ussed for riding entertainment and no complaints in the past.

After talking to the management company the manager told me she is only contracted to visit 2 times a month and NOT on the weekends, so I guess I will have to just limit our riding to the weekends

Thanks to all so far for your comments/input!

Quoted: Quoted: ... As a parent I felt it safer to teach my kids to ride on a vacant lot (no house) rather than in the private streets where cars drive up and down. This isn't the firts time a vacant lot has been ussed for riding entertainment and no complaints in the past. After talking to the management company the manager told me she is only contracted to visit 2 times a month and NOT on the weekends, so I guess I will have to just limit our riding to the weekends Why not find out who owns the lot, get their permission, and then not worry about it?

May be the next step. The empty lot is actually next door to my brother and he has spoken to the owner before, but before we started riding on it. My brother has not seen the owner since the end of summer and only knows that the owner was supposed to start building back in November.

Just tell the management company you have been given the green light to ride on the vacant land by the owner, and if they don't like it, take it up with the owner.  Chances are they won't even bother to see if your telling them the truth or not.   I'd bet they are just looking for things to bitch at to increase their revenues with fines/penalties.

Send a letter to the management company and tell them to cite the section of the HOA rules that they are referring to.

Also, place them on notice that you will seek attorneys fees if any adverse action is taken agasint you directly from the Management company.

Next go to the meetings of hte HOA board.

Why ride on someone else’s property without permission to begin with?
If it's not yours it belongs to someone else.
I would be bent if I came back to find my property had been torn up from 4-wheelers (or anything else for that matter).  If you have to ride why not try riding on your OWN property or would that tear it up?  Where I live we have to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year due to the local TPT tearing up the nice greenbelts with 4-wheelers/dirtbikes.
Everyone hates HOA’s but this is exactly why they were started. There is ALWAYS someone doing retarded stuff. You can no longer assume your neighbor has common courtesy. Where the hell did common sense go?

Next weeks HOA Topic: The legality of dropping a load in the community pool.  Is this really a problem?