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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/15/2003 12:45:44 PM EDT
I see some commerce sites won't ship mags/ammo to NYC anymore...is this just a CYA move for them or has something passed there to make it illegal?

Can I legally send some 30rd pre-94 mags to an individual in NYC?

Thanks in advance

GMP
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 1:52:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 1:53:23 PM EDT
I believe its a ban on rifle capacity and not pistol. I wouldnt risk it because if this guy gets caught with them he will probably sing like a Canarie to the authorities regarding how and where he got the mags.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 2:26:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 3:18:13 PM EDT
Thanks Guys...I'm not going to gamble and will be returning the MO on Monday morning.

Much appreciated!

Rob
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 4:50:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 6:08:40 PM EDT
Rifle/shotgun = 5 rounds, Pistol = 17 rounds. Any mag over that is banned in NYC.

It is also illegal to even posess ammo or a magazine for a rifle/pistol/shotgun which is not registered to you in NYC.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:59:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Rifle/shotgun = 5 rounds, Pistol = 17 rounds. Any mag over that is banned in NYC.

It is also illegal to even posess ammo or a magazine for a rifle/pistol/shotgun which is not registered to you in NYC.



I was under the impression that someone from outside of NYC could possess a longarm in the city for up to three days without having to have it registered. Would they not be then able to possess ammo and a magazine for it? For example, if I brought my Keltec sub2000 with some 9mm ammo and a 17 round Glock mag, should I not be fine for up to 72 hours?
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:59:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Rifle/shotgun = 5 rounds, Pistol = 17 rounds. Any mag over that is banned in NYC.

It is also illegal to even posess ammo or a magazine for a rifle/pistol/shotgun which is not registered to you in NYC.



I was under the impression that someone from outside of NYC could possess a longarm in the city for up to three days without having to have it registered. Would they not be then able to possess ammo and a magazine for it? For example, if I brought my Keltec sub2000 with some 9mm ammo and a 17 round Glock mag, should I not be fine for up to 72 hours?



HR: My response was directed only towards a NYC resident. It is my understanding that a NYC resident has 72 hours to register a new long gun purchased outside of NYC.

I believe the answer to your question as a non-resident is a resounding no on the handgun, ammo and magazine possession. The NYC law provides for uninterrupted travel through NYC or the purchase of a firearm in NYC. AFAIK there is no provision to remain in NYC for 72 hours with either a hand or long gun. There maybe an exception for a recognized competitive shoot through. I'll see if I can research it for you.

Phil_A_Steen is quite knowledgeable on NYC firearms law so maybe he will know the answer to your question.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 11:01:01 AM EDT
Thanks, any info would greatly be appreciated.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:31:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot:
Thanks Guys...I'm not going to gamble and will be returning the MO on Monday morning.

Much appreciated!

Rob



I did the research when I was buying mags and people were sending them to NYC. The seller has NO liability when sending mags to NYC, its only the buyer that has problems in POSSESSION. Only a possessor can have problems with the mag ban.

Basically NYS doesn't have cause to prosecute you for laws you should not be aware of. Its the state resident's problem to verify the legalities of his purchases.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:05:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Balzac72:

Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot:
Thanks Guys...I'm not going to gamble and will be returning the MO on Monday morning.

Much appreciated!

Rob



I did the research when I was buying mags and people were sending them to NYC. The seller has NO liability when sending mags to NYC, its only the buyer that has problems in POSSESSION. Only a possessor can have problems with the mag ban.

Basically NYS doesn't have cause to prosecute you for laws you should not be aware of. Its the state resident's problem to verify the legalities of his purchases.



Unless you are a dealer. The ATF can pull your license or penalize you in some other way.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:16:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 2:44:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Balzac72:

Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot:
Thanks Guys...I'm not going to gamble and will be returning the MO on Monday morning.

Much appreciated!

Rob



I did the research when I was buying mags and people were sending them to NYC. The seller has NO liability when sending mags to NYC, its only the buyer that has problems in POSSESSION. Only a possessor can have problems with the mag ban.

Basically NYS doesn't have cause to prosecute you for laws you should not be aware of. Its the state resident's problem to verify the legalities of his purchases.



Unless you are a dealer. The ATF can pull your license or penalize you in some other way.


Why does the ATF get involved over a city wide ordnance? I thought they were only responsible for federal laws and local ones were to be dealt with by the local authorities.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 3:08:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Balzac72:

Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot:
Thanks Guys...I'm not going to gamble and will be returning the MO on Monday morning.

Much appreciated!

Rob



I did the research when I was buying mags and people were sending them to NYC. The seller has NO liability when sending mags to NYC, its only the buyer that has problems in POSSESSION. Only a possessor can have problems with the mag ban.

Basically NYS doesn't have cause to prosecute you for laws you should not be aware of. Its the state resident's problem to verify the legalities of his purchases.



Unless you are a dealer. The ATF can pull your license or penalize you in some other way.


Why does the ATF get involved over a city wide ordnance? I thought they were only responsible for federal laws and local ones were to be dealt with by the local authorities.



My point exactly. This isn't a major federal law that everyone should know about. This is really a Town Podunk kind of law. However, since he knows about it, he can avoid it. But in case he did screw up, he needs to know that it is PURELY a possession crime. Sending into NYC is not a crime at all, unless you're sending it to yourself.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 5:59:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

I was under the impression that someone from outside of NYC could possess a longarm in the city for up to three days without having to have it registered. Would they not be then able to possess ammo and a magazine for it? For example, if I brought my Keltec sub2000 with some 9mm ammo and a 17 round Glock mag, should I not be fine for up to 72 hours?



Here's the relevant section of the New York City Administrative Code:



10-305 i.(1) Non-residents in transit. Any other provision of this chapter to the contrary notwithstanding, a non-resident of the city of New York who, without a rifle and shotgun permit issued hereunder, enters the city of New York posses-sing a rifle or shotgun in the course of transit to a destination outside the city of New York, or a non-resident of the city of New York who enters the city of New York possessing an assault weapon in the course of transit to a destination outside the city of New York, shall have a period of twenty-four hours subsequent to such entering to be exempt from penalty under this chapter for the unlawful possession of a rifle, shotgun or assault weapon, provided that such rifle, shotgun or assault weapon shall at all times be unloaded and in a locked case, or locked automobile trunk, and that said non-resident is lawfully in possession of said rifle or shotgun according to the laws of his or her place of residence.



It's worth noting that "assault weapon" is defined much more broadly in New York City than federal or NYS law.

There is no express provision for magazines or ammunition accompanying the assault weapon. However, even in gun rabid NYC, unless the prosecutor has a hard on for slamming you, I would think a prosecution unlikely. Furthermore, you have a colorable argument that possession of the magazines and ammo is an implied right under the 24 hour exemption above. BTW, it's the same problem with FOPA -- FOPA doesn't expressly protect interstate transport of magazines or ammo but a fair interpretation is that if the mags/ammo are moving with a gun otherwise meeting the FOPA safe harbor, it's OK.

RKbar15, thanks for the good word. Whatever knowledge of NYC gun laws I have stems from a combination of going to law school and having to suffer from the oppressive gun regime here for the last five years.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:01:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Rifle/shotgun = 5 rounds, Pistol = 17 rounds. Any mag over that is banned in NYC.

It is also illegal to even posess ammo or a magazine for a rifle/pistol/shotgun which is not registered to you in NYC.



Also let me add one additional detail to this post: also banned are any pistol mags that stick out below the butt of the pistol grip. That means no +2 extensions for Glocks and the like. Very annoying to me as I would like to add +2s on my 13rd G21 mags but no dice.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 3:32:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Why does the ATF get involved over a city wide ordnance? I thought they were only responsible for federal laws and local ones were to be dealt with by the local authorities.



The ATF requires federally licensed firearms dealers to be in compliance with all Federal, State and local laws as a condition to being licensed to deal in firearms.

The ATF issues the required publications for dealers to research the applicable laws in every state.

ATF P 5300.5 State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms
(2003 - 24th Edition)

www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/24thedition/index.htm


Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:24:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Why does the ATF get involved over a city wide ordnance? I thought they were only responsible for federal laws and local ones were to be dealt with by the local authorities.



The ATF requires federally licensed firearms dealers to be in compliance with all Federal, State and local laws as a condition to being licensed to deal in firearms.

The ATF issues the required publications for dealers to research the applicable laws in every state.

ATF P 5300.5 State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms
(2003 - 24th Edition)

www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/24thedition/index.htm





The irony lies in the fact that this is not a firearm related item. If this were an AR15, the local NYC dealer would not sell or release the transfered gun to a NYC resident. What makes a magazine subject FFL dealer punishment?

What if an FFL dealer also sold water purification tablets that were banned in Florida, would he be liable for sending such a tab to Florida if someone ordered one?

So my question is - how much liability does an FFL dealer face with firearm parts?
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