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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 7/24/2018 1:18:18 PM EST
I surrendered my AR last September and just received letter of release from DOJ. My AR has a Thorsden FRS-15 stock and a bullet button. Now the police department won’t release it because it has a bullet button rendering it an assault rifle. They told me to bring someone with an assault weapons license to removed the bullet button. I called several guns stores and no one has that license and nobody knows who has one.
Question: is my AR compliant with the non-adjustable stock already in place, even with the button still installed?
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 1:28:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2018 1:39:27 PM EST by operatorerror]
So if it wasn't registered as an AW prior to 7/1/18 I think there is a distinct possibility that you may never get it back.

eta They will allow an AW licensed person to modify the weapon? It currently meets the definition of an unregistered AW and is in the possession of a LE agency. That seems iffy and just might invite the DOJ to your house at a later date.

eta Just my opinion based upon the information provided.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 1:31:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gregusmaxis:
I surrendered my AR last September and just received letter of release from DOJ. My AR has a Thorsden FRS-15 stock and a bullet button. Now the police department won’t release it because it has a bullet button rendering it an assault rifle. They told me to bring someone with an assault weapons license to removed the bullet button. I called several guns stores and no one has that license and nobody knows who has one.
Question: is my AR compliant with the non-adjustable stock already in place, even with the button still installed?
View Quote
Does it have any other features? If it is truly featureless, whether or not it has a bullet button is irrelevant.

Although I'd heard something recently that made it sound like LEAs don't have to actually release the firearm to you if DOJ approves the LEGR, that it's up to their discretion or something like that.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 3:34:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2018 3:35:44 PM EST by Trollslayer]
Ask the officer to show you the rifle so you can photograph it and finish your registration.

Ask the officer to separate the upper from the lower, to ensure it is unloaded.

Once separated, it is not an assault weapon.

Take the upper receiver home with you.
.
.
.

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but why did you surrender your rifle?
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 5:18:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Ask the officer to show you the rifle so you can photograph it and finish your registration.

Ask the officer to separate the upper from the lower, to ensure it is unloaded.

Once separated, it is not an assault weapon.

Take the upper receiver home with you.
.
.
.

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but why did you surrender your rifle?
View Quote
Whether or not separating the upper and lower makes it no longer an AW if it is configured as one is very much in the air right now, as the regs which would have made that the case for enforcement purposes were withdrawn by DOJ. On the other hand, we have that case where an AW with missing parts is just a "borken AW" and not a non-AW. Anyone who counts in disassembly to make them okay in public is taking a chance right now.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 6:10:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By operatorerror:
So if it wasn't registered as an AW prior to 7/1/18 I think there is a distinct possibility that you may never get it back.

eta They will allow an AW licensed person to modify the weapon? It currently meets the definition of an unregistered AW and is in the possession of a LE agency. That seems iffy and just might invite the DOJ to your house at a later date.

eta Just my opinion based upon the information provided.
View Quote
With an AW holder, maybe he can recover the parts.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 6:38:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Chaingun:
With an AW holder, maybe he can recover the parts.
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Maybe, it couldn't hurt to try but don't get your hopes up. Probably gonna' be next to impossible just to find an AW license holder to go to the station.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 12:24:03 AM EST
I'd think an AW licensed ffl might want to be well known in the community. Where are you? Someone may have some suggestions. Although a "house call" might cost something, perhaps less expensive than a lawyer. Not sure what's up with the surrender but maybe you've already got a good firearms lawyer on tap. Might want to consider calling one. That also may not be free after an initial consult?

It takes more than just changing out the stock/grip to Thordsen to be "featureless. Forward "pistol" grip? Muzzle device? Not sure where you are there but it seems a bit off track to go to "featureless" and retain a bullet button. The regulations have been withdrawn but that didn't change the laws. Post 2016 the options were/are go featureless, go fixed mag or register. Or legally surrender, dispose out of state, etc.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 8:39:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 5:58:52 PM EST
Where in CA are you? The bullet button does in fact make it an AW, but I believe you are not in illegal possession of one since the cops have it and are exempt from the law. I don't see why they cant take it off for you, but regardless, you'll need to convince them too, or get an FFL with AW permit to do it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2018 10:11:21 AM EST
Why did you surrender your weapon?
Link Posted: 8/3/2018 10:56:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/5/2018 2:18:51 PM EST by Trollslayer]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By a79flhrider:
Why did you surrender your weapon?
View Quote
That was my question, too. There has been no reply by OP.

It may not be relevant, as OP asked about the process to retrieve it. Still, it could be informative and may relate to the degree of cooperation he might expect from law enforcement.
Link Posted: 8/4/2018 5:43:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NorCalRT:
... The bullet button does in fact make it an AW, ...
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In this situation, that statement is incorrect. The BB does not make something into an AW.

Under long-standing law, an AR that has a detachable magazine and certain other characteristics is an AW. Until 1/1/2017, the BB was a workaround, because it made it into a gun with an attachable but not detachable magazine, so not an AW. Starting 1/1/2017, that law was changed, and the BB workaround no longer helped. Everything whose legality (not being an AW) depended solely on having a BB now had to be registered, since a RAW (registered AW) is legal to own and use. But it is not the BB that made it into an AW; it is the underlying mechanism (centerfire, semi-auto, ...), feature (pistol grip or such), and loading method (detachable or non-fixed magazine).

The OP now owns an AW, and has not registered it, so it is currently illegal. Whether that's a problem while it is in police custody is an interesting question, and I don't want to speculate on that. Before he gets it back, he needs to make sure it is no longer an AW. Removing the BB makes exactly no difference there. I don't know whether simply separating the rifle into upper and lower half helps; for the purpose of registration, two separate halves were not an AW, but the regulations for the purpose of AW ban are different from the regulations for the purpose of registration, so I'm not sure. The best idea would probably be to have the police give the gun in its current form to a FFL with an AW permit, and then have that FFL modify the gun so it is no longer an AW (which typically means removing the pistol grip and all other features). It's not clear whether the PD will go along with this, since it opens up very complex legal questions. For example whether it is "aiding and abetting" someone getting control over their gun, by being able to direct it being brought to an FFL; and since "having control over" is the definition of "possession", that might already be illegal, and a lawyer would probably be required to organize this.

Given that the gun is probably not worth very much (many hundreds or a few thousand), and given the cost of the FFL and lawyer is probably higher, the best solution may sadly be to to tell the PD to destroy it, and buy a new featureless (non-AW) rifle to replace it. Lesson from this: Getting into serious legal trouble (serious enough to get a gun confiscated) may cost you a pretty penny.
Link Posted: 8/4/2018 6:26:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By treelogger:

Lesson from this: Getting into serious legal trouble (serious enough to get a gun confiscated) may cost you a pretty penny.
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Except you don't have to do anything except pop up on the radar to get your guns confiscated.

As an example, you are dating a woman who has a child from a previous relationship. The baby daddy is a shitbag and you have several encounters with him. He cries to the DA and voila, you have a restraining order. Your choices are limited but you may not now possess any firearms until the matter is resolved. And as noted in the OP the DOJ takes their sweet assed time.

Yes I have first hand experience in this through a close family member. Very near 180 days from the date of surrender to the date of return. Local LEO were excellent, understanding and professional, the DOJ, not so much.
Link Posted: 8/4/2018 11:55:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2018 11:56:18 PM EST by treelogger]
Agree, getting into legal trouble is not necessarily your own fault. It's still very expensive. I've been party to several interesting lawsuits, which cost me tens of thousands to eventually win. You don't get your legal expenses back when you win. Fortunately, none ever involved criminal matters or restraining orders against me.
Link Posted: 8/5/2018 10:11:12 PM EST
The thorsden frs makes the bullet button pointless. Its featureless unless u have a flash hider on.
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 4:32:34 PM EST
interesting first post.
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 4:59:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By StevenH:
interesting first post.
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First and only.
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 5:35:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
First and only.
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Originally Posted By StevenH:
interesting first post.
First and only.
ehh, Someone gets in trouble with an AR15 and comes here for help? Maybe? I mean sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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