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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:49:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 7:50:51 AM EST by VSP]
Guys,
I'm in the process of scheduling a Performance Carbine class at South River Gun Club. The two dates I'm considering are the 11/12th and the 18/19th of December. If you were to attend, do you guys have any date preferences?

The Performance Carbine class will be a blend of IPSC speed shooting fundamentals combined with some Tactical Applications. This is not a beginners class. Participants will be expected to show up with all necessary gear, rifles/scopes zeroed and ready to go. This class will place an emphasis on Close Quarters Battle (CQB), with 50 yards being the longest shots. The class will focus on minimizing your engagement times and maximizing your hit potentials in very short windows of engagements. There will be second and third level weapon transitions, some low-light shooting, and some lower level weapon retention techniques. There will be various discussions on the proper setup of a CQB carbine, different accessories and equipment, and your personal gear.

I'll have the actual announcement posted in a few days and it will contain a full class topic list. This will be a two day school. Ammunition requirements will be around 1,000 rifle and 300 pistol. Cost will be around $300 per person, but I have to check on some range equipment for the class before I can commit to a firm price quote. If this is something your interested in, let me know. Class size is limited to 16. I'm also planning on attending the group shoot at the FOP range on the 23rd, If you guys want to talk with me in person about the class, just roll on up and say hi. Knowing the local IPSC guys, I expect this class to be full and I wanted to give you guys a little extra notice. If you have any other questions, let me know.

Thanks,
VSP
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:58:52 AM EST
bump...enjoyed meeting you at Marietta. Dan.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:28:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:00:48 PM EST
Put me on your list to attend. Email me specifics on when and where to send the check. Either date is fine with me. Sounds like a good class. Who will the instructor be?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:31:33 PM EST
December is a rough month to schedule.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:42:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By 00bullitt:
Put me on your list to attend. Email me specifics on when and where to send the check. Either date is fine with me. Sounds like a good class. Who will the instructor be?



He said it'll be at South River , he is the instructor.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:27:31 AM EST
Treelander,
It was nice to meet you also. I'm still trying to put together some funds for the Sig. Sorry about the pic of my 1911, I thought I still had it, but I don't.

00bullitt,
I'll be instructing the class. If you want some more specifics on my background, let me know and I'll email you a quick resume. I'll send you an email when I get all of the specifics hammered out.

JoeWang,
Yeah, I realize December is to tough month, but I wanted to schedule the class before it got REAL cold, and I didn't want to wait until next March before it started to warm up. I also wanted to do some low-light shooting, but I couldn't squeeze the class in before Thanksgiving (it would conflict with SDave's pistol class), so my only option was to get it in before Christmas.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:34:58 AM EST
What do you consider a beginner? I have been shooting for a few years, mostly handguns but I have put a few hundred rounds through my AR-15 and a few thousand rounds through various handguns.

I have taken a hunter safety class and a one day handgun class.

I do not have much experience in shoot and move type skills.

Does this make me a beginner?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:39:23 AM EST
Hagadorn,
Good question. Let my clarify my "Beginner" statement. I was refering to a beginner rifle class, not necessarily a beginner shooter. This class is not an introductory class into the use of a rifle. Participants are expected to know how to use their rifle safely in all aspects of shooting (loading, unloading, laser rules, 180 static line rules). Have a basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship (Stance, Grip, Sight picture, Sight Alignment, Breath control, etc..). Have you rifle zeroed, or able to make changes to your zero relatively quickly. Understand how to break down your rifle for cleaning and be able to converse on the major components of your rifle. While I will touch upon some of these topics in the class, I am not going to cover these topics as thoroughly as I would if this were an "Basic rifle/carbine class".

From the information you provided about yourself, you sound like you have a solid skill level and you would be an excellent candidate for this class.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:59:57 AM EST
I'm interested. Other than a rifle with sling (I got slings...boy do I ever have slings) , handgun with holster, mags with backup mags and ammo, what other gear do we need? Sorry to sound like such a newbie, but I've never taken a gun class other than the hunter's safety course.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:04:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:20:00 AM EST
VSP,
im always up for some training. i hope its doesnt sound rude but would you mind outlining your credentials. im very interested in this class it if meets my needs.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:20:00 AM EST
Ghost-Shooter,
That's just about it. Make sure you have mag pouches for everything. I would have a flashlight/weapon light or both for the lowlight portion. Knee pads may be helpful. I'll have a full list of suggested items in the official announcement. Of course, if you have the full tactical vest setup, your certainly welcome to bring it and give it a thorough workout.

Bookhound,
Yeah, I wondered if any Hackathorn disciples would jump on that one. Ken and I disagree on some things. I don't think its beneficial to know what it's like to have a someone shoot a gun at you. When things are happening for real, I tend to think of myself as shooting first, and last.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:23:59 AM EST
Dvldog,
It's not rude at all. It's a perfectly reasonable request. Give me a couple of hours and I'll put together a quick resume and email it to you.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:30:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:43:23 AM EST
VSP,
you dont have to go to that kind of trouble. maybe just 2 or 3 pertinent items in a post. and a gear list too if you have the time. thanks!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:27:26 AM EST
Dvldog,
Just checking to see if you got my email.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:09:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By VSP:
I don't think its beneficial to know what it's like to have a someone shoot a gun at you.



I respect your skills, achievements and opinion. You have the right to disagree. But as a long time "disciple" of the man, let me state clearly that at NO TIME does he allow any student to point a gun at another person, much les "shoot a gun at you". Muzzle discipline and trigger finger discipline are strictly observed at all times.

Regards.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:01:37 AM EST
ARstudent,
Maybe I got a little loose with that comment. Let me say I have no first hand knowledge of the event, but its my understanding that during an "advanced" level class he put some students downrange so they can hear what is sounds like to have bullets coming towards them. I'm sure it was done in the safest and professional way possible, but I question the validity of the technique. Ken is an icon in the training industry and I have no doubts about his judgement or abilities. I have even tried to get in on one of his classes to observe his teaching style, but my schedule didn't allow it. As I said before, I don't agree with everything he puts out there, but there is a lot I do agree with. My comment was a simple illustration of a difference of opinion we have regarding training techniques.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:29:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 5:39:48 AM EST by ARstudent]
VSP:
I understand where you're coming from. Like all internet conversations, things get misquoted, misunderstood, etc. We can take this discussion offline if you would like. Or better yet, we can chat when we cross path. I'm sure you'll be able to experience his class first hand and decide for yourself the validity of certain drills. There is more to his method than what is rumored or talked about on the disinformation highway. It is definitely not what you heard.

Sorry to have hijacked your thread. As this post is about your upcoming carbine class.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:40:47 AM EST
Showing interest by tagging!
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