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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/22/2005 3:46:00 AM EDT
The legislature passed Pataki's gun proposals as S50001 & S50002.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:33:20 AM EDT
Our local State Senator (Republican/Consevative, pro-gun) came out in suppost of this legislation.
He flatly stated "this is not going to affect law abiding citizens..."
So far I haven't seen anything in print, only the retoric of how it only effects effects cop-killers and illegal gun sales, gun trafficing,...
This legislation had to waiting in the wings for just the right time to spring it into action....Some of us might have just been turned into criminals.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:57:20 AM EDT
The person who's going to get screwed is the old guy with a half dozen unlicensed pistols under the bed. He's just become a violent felon.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:04:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 5:06:03 AM EDT by Andreuha]
What's up with the "except at home or place of business" line, or what's the upper limit for unregistered firearms and still being in the exception/misdemeanor zone? I don't get that because of the other stuff below that, are the latter parts excemtions to the excemtion?

Also, what's up with the twenty-three firearms line, does that mean any ARFCOM'er with more than 23 otherwise legal firearms is now a felon? WTF?


Gotta love NYS legislature... Some people should just disappear for the greater good...
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:12:45 AM EDT
The sponsers memo explains the changes to the existing laws. You need to look the bills up to see the actual addition/deletions to the current statutes.

public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi

BILL NUMBER: S50001

SPONSOR: GOLDEN


TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the penal law, in relation to the
possession and sale of firearms


PURPOSE:

To increase the criminal penalties for those who illegally possess or
sell multiple firearms.


SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS:

Section 1 of the bin would amend subdivisions 1 and 2 of section 70.02
of the Penal Law by: (i) deleting the word "dangerous" .Tom a reference
to the offense of Criminal Possession of a Dangerous Weapon in the First
Degree; (ii) including a reference to Criminal Sale of a Weapon in the
Third Degree within the listing of class D violent felonies; and (iii)
adding references to the offense of Criminal Sale of a Weapon in the
Third Degree to provisions requiring the imposition of a determinate or
definite sentence of one year upon conviction of certain offenses.

Section 2 would amend section 265.02 of the Penal Law defining the class
D violent felony of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree
by inserting gender-neutral references and by reducing £Tom twenty to
three the number of firearms required to be possessed to constitute a
violation of paragraph (i) of subdivision 5 of that section.

Section 3 would amend section 265.03 of the Penal Law defining the class
C violent felony of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Second Degree
by combining its existing provisions into a single subdivision and
adding a new subdivision 2 to prohibit the possession of five or more
firearms.

Section 4 would amend section 265.04 of the Penal Law defining the class
B violent felony of Criminal Possession of a Dangerous Weapon in the
First Degree by removing the term "dangerous" from its provisions and
adding a new subdivision 2 to prohibit the possession of ten or more
firearms.

Section 5 would amend section 265.11 of the Penal Law defining the class
D felony of Criminal Sale of a Weapon in the Third Degree by effecting
gender-neutral references without substantive change.

Section 6 would amend section 265.12 of the Penal Law defining the class
C violent felony of Criminal Sale of a Weapon in the Second Degree by
reducing from ten to five the number of firearms required to be sold to
constitute a violation of its provisions and by adding a new subdivision
2 to prohibit the unlawful sale of a total of five or more firearms in a
period of one year.

Section 7 would amend section 265.13 of the Penal Law defining the class
B violent felony of Criminal Sale of a Firearm in the First Degree by
reducing from twenty to ten the number of firearms required to be sold
to constitute a violation of its provisions and by adding a new subdivi-
sion 2 to prohibit the unlawful sale of a total often or more firearms
in a period of one year.

Section 8 provides that the bill takes effect immediately.

EXISTING LAW:

Currently, the criminal possession of a weapon offenses are graded in
four degrees ranging in seriousness from a class A misdemeanor to a
class B felony. With respect to the illegal possession of multiple
firearms, the illegal possession of 20 or more firearms constitutes the
third degree, class D violent felony offense (Penal Law 𨵡.02 (5)(i),
but no higher penalties exist regardless of the number of firearms ille-
gally possessed.

The criminal sale of a weapon offenses are graded in three degrees rang-
ing in seriousness from a class D felony to a class B felony. The ille-
gal sale of a single firearm is a class D felony (Penal Law 𨵡.11);
the illegal sale of 10 or more firearms is a class C violent felony
offense (Penal Law 𨵡.12); and the illegal sale of20 or more firearms
is a class B violent felony offense (Penal Law 𨵡.13).


STATEMENT IN SUPPORT:

New York State is now the safest large state in the nation, but we can
certainly do more to bring an end to gun violence in our communities.
This bill represents a tough new approach to penalizing the possession
or sale of multiple weapons and will enhance law enforcement efforts to
keep illegal guns from coming into New York. Building on Governor
Pataki's anti-gun violence legislation adopted in 2000, we must rein-
force our gun laws with this legislation which is aimed at intercepting
deadly and illegal weapons before they get into the hands of the indi-
vidual criminals who use them.

When a criminal possessing or selling numerous firearms is apprehended
as a result of New York's vigilant efforts to track illegal firearms,
that perpetrator must face an appropriate punishment. Targeting crimi-
nals who would attempt to bring several illegal guns across our borders
is a critical part of the Governor Pataki's campaign to end gun violence
in New York. This bill amends the existing criminal possession of a
weapon provisions to more severely penalize the possession of multiple
weapons and the criminal sale of a weapon provisions to lower the number
of required weapons and penalize aggregate sales. Currently, only Crimi-
nal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree, a class D felony, penal-
izes the possession of multiple firearms. The bill would reduce from
twenty to three the number of firearms required to be possessed for a
violation of this third degree offense, penalize the possession of five
or more firearms and ten or more firearms. A similar reduction in the
number of firearms required for a violation of the second degree, class
C felony and first degree, class B felony offenses of criminal sale of a
weapon are included in the legislation. Criminal possession of a weapon
in the first, second and third degree, as well as criminal sale of a
weapon in the second and first degree are all violent felonies, and, yet
the third degree criminal sale of weapon is not currently a violent
felony. There is no logical or legal reason for this seemingly incon-
sistent approach. Therefore, the bill amends the existing third degree
offense to designate sale of a single firearm as a class D violent felo-
ny offense.

Finally, the bill recognizes that certain individuals who traffic in the
sale of illegal weapons intentionally restrict the number of firearms
that they sell in a single transaction, so as to avoid the stricter
penalties. This measure amends the law to eliminate this loophole used
by savvy gun dealers, by amending the criminal sale of a weapon in the
second degree statute to penalize the sale of five or more firearms in a
one year period and the first degree statute to penalize the sale of ten
or more firearms in a one year period.


BUDGET IMPLICATIONS:

None.




BILL NUMBER: S50002

SPONSOR: GOLDEN


TITLE OF BILL: An act enacting the "crimes against police act"; to
amend the penal law, in relation to the minimum sentence of imprisonment
for the commission or attempted commission of murder in the first
degree, sentences of imprisonment for certain violent felony offenses,
establishing the offense of aggravated menacing of a police officer or
peace officer, causing the death of a police officer or peace officer,
possession of armor piercing ammunition and criminal possession of a
weapon in the first and second degrees; to amend the criminal procedure
law, in relation to sentences for convictions of murder in the first
degree; and to repeal subdivision 8 of section 265.01 of the penal law
relating to possession of armor piercing ammunition with intent to use
it


PURPOSE:

To increase the criminal penalties for those who threaten, injure, or
kill police officers.


SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS:

Section 1 of the bill entitles the act the "Crimes Against Police Act."

Section 2 would amend section 70.00 of the Penal Law to increase the
sentence for a conviction of Murder in the First Degree under Penal Law
section 125.27(1)(a)(i), (ii), and (iii) for a crime committed on or
after the effective date of the statute, other than a sentence of death
or lite imprisonment without parole, to an indeterminate sentence with a
minimum term of between 35 and 40 years, and a maximum term of life
imprisonment, and increase the sentence for a conviction of Attempted
Murder in the First Degree under Penal Law section 125.27(1)(a)(i),
(ii), and (iii), to an indeterminate sentence with a minimum term of
between 30 and 40 years, and a maximum term of life imprisonment.
Section 3 would amend section 70.02 of the Penal Law to include within
the definition of a class C, D, and E violent felony the crimes of
Manslaughter in the Second Degree as defined in section 125.15(4) of the
Penal Law, Aggravated Menacing of A Police Officer or Peace Officer as
defined in section 120.11-a of the Penal Law and of Criminal Possession
of a Weapon in the Third Degree as defined in section 265.02(9) of the
Penal Law, and Attempted Aggravated Menacing of A Police Officer or
Peace Officer and Attempted Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third
Degree, respectively.
Sections 4 and 5 would amend section 70.02 of the Penal Law to impose
determinate sentences of 20 to 40 years for the crime of Aggravated
Assault a Police Officer or Peace Officer as defined in section 120.11
of the Penal Law; 10 to 20 years for the crimes of Attempted Aggravated
Assault a Police Officer or Peace Officer, Manslaughter in the Second
Degree as defined by section 125.15(4) of the Penal Law, and Assault on
Police or Peace Officer as defined by section 120.08 of the Penal Law; 5
to 10 years for the crimes of Aggravated Menacing of a Police Officer or
Peace Officer as defined by section 120.11-a of the Penal Law, Attempted
Assault on Police or Peace Officer, Assault in the Second Degree against
a Police or Peace Officer as defined in section 120.05
3 of the Penal
Law, and Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree (armor
piercing ammunition) as defined in section 265.02(9)of the Penal Law; 2
1/2 to 5 years for the crime of Attempted Aggravated Menacing of a
Police Officer or Peace Officer, Attempted Assault in the Second Degree
against a Police or Peace Officer, and Attempted Criminal Possession of
a Weapon in the Third Degree.
Section 6 would create the new crime of Aggravated Menacing of a Police
Officer or Peace Officer as section 120.11-a in the Penal Law. The
crime would require the same elements needed to prove the existing
Menacing in the Second Degree as defined in section 120.14 of the Penal
Law, (including use of a weapon or dangerous instrument) when perpe-
trated against a Police or Peace Officer.
Section 7 would amend Manslaughter in the Second Degree as defined in
section 125.15 of the Penal Law, to add a new subsection (4) that would
punish a perpetrator who, with the intent to prevent a police peace
officer from performing a lawful duty, acted with criminal negligence
and caused the death of such police or peace officer.
Sections 8 and 9 would amend section 265 of the Penal Law to include
within the class D violent felony of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in
the Third Degree the possession of armor piercing ammunition with the
intent to use the same unlawfully against another.
Section 10 would amend subdivisions 1, 10 and 11 of section 400.27 of
the Criminal Procedure Law to include, among the list of sentences the
jury is permitted to impose following a conviction of Murder in the
First Degree for a crime that was committed on or after the effective
date of the statute, an indeterminate sentence with a minimum term of
between 35 and 40 years, to be determined by the court, and a maximum
term of life imprisonment. This section also provides that the jury will
be instructed that in the case of a jury deadlock (the jury is unable to
unanimously agree on any of the three permissible sentencing options)
that the defendant will be sentenced to life imprisonment without
parole. This section would apply to offenses committed on or after the
effective date.
Section 11 would amend subdivisions 1, 10 and 11 of section 400.27 of
the Criminal Procedure Law to include, among the list of sentences the
jury is permitted to impose following a conviction of Murder in the
First Degree for a crime that was committed before the effective date of
the statute, an indeterminate sentence with a minimum term of between 20
and 25 years, to be determined by the court, and a maximum term of life
imprisonment. This section also provides that the jury will be
instructed that in the case of a jury deadlock (the jury is unable to
unanimously agree on any of the three permissible sentencing options)
that the defendant will be sentenced to life imprisonment without
parole. This section would apply to offenses committed before the effec-
tive date.
Section 12 contains a severability clause.
Section 13 would provide that the bill takes effect immediately,
provided that sections 2 through 9 and 11 would apply to crimes commit-
ted on or after the effective date, and section 10 would apply to crimes
committed before the effective date.

EXISTING LAW:
Currently, the available sentence for a conviction of Murder in the
First Degree under Penal Law section 125.27(1)(a)(i), (ii), and (iii),
other than a sentence of death or life imprisonment without parole, is
an indeterminate sentence with a minimum term of between 20 and 25
years, and a maximum term of life imprisonment. The available sentence
for a conviction of Attempted Murder in the First Degree under Penal Law
section 125.27(1 )(a)(i), (ii), and (iii), is an indeterminate sentence
with a minimum term of between 15 and 25 years, and a maximum term of
life imprisonment. The crime of Aggravated Assault a Police Officer or
Peace Officer as defined in section 120.11 of the Penal Law is punisha-
ble by a determinate sentence of between 5 and 25 years. Attempted
Aggravated Assault a Police Officer or Peace Officer is punishable by a
determinate sentence of between 3 1/2 and 15 years. Assault on Police
Officer or Peace Officer as defined by section 120.08 of the Penal Law
is punishable by a determinate sentence of between 3 1/2 and 15 years.
Menacing of a Police Officer or Peace Officer is punishable only as a
class A misdemeanor, with a sentence of no more than one year in jail.
Attempted Assault on Police Officer or Peace Officer and Assault in the
Second Degree against a Police Officer or Peace Officer as defined in
section 120.05
3 of the Penal Law are punishable by a determinate
sentence of between 2 and 7 years. Criminal possession armor piercing
ammunition is punishable only as a class A misdemeanor, with a sentence
of no more than one year in jail. Attempted Assault in the Second Degree
against a Police Officer or Peace Officer is punishable by a determinate
sentence of between 1 1/2 and 4 years.

STATEMENT IN SUPPORT:
New York State is now the safest large state in the nation, but we must
do everything within our power to protect the men and women in law
enforcement who risk their lives every day to protect us. This bill
represents a tough new approach to penalizing any threat or attack
against a law enforcement officer during the performance of his or her
duties. It also restores the ability to seek the death penalty for the
intentional murder of a police officer, a peace officer, or an employee
of the Department of Correctional Services. This restoration would
permit death penalty prosecutions for the murder of police officers,
peace officers an corrections employees committed prior to the enactment
0 the statute using the existing sentencing levels for such crimes, as
well as death penalty prosecutions for the murder of these officers
committed on or after the effective date of the statute with enhanced
sentencing levels.
Building upon Governor Pataki's anti-gun trafficking legislation, this
bill would ensure that the most dangerous type of criminals - those who
are so bold as to attack, injure or kill a police officer or peace offi-
cer - are punished commensurate with their crimes.

BUDGET IMPLICATIONS:
None.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:17:11 AM EDT
(from the Assembly bill)
-------------------------------
S 9. Subdivision 18 of section 265.00 of the penal law, as added by
37 chapter 646 of the laws of 1986, is amended to read as follows:
38 18. "Armor piercing ammunition" means any ammunition {capable of being
39 used in pistols or revolvers} containing a projectile or projectile
40 core{, or a projectile or projectile core for use in such ammunition,
41 that is} constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
42 substances) from one or a combination of any of the following: tungsten
43 alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, {or} uranium,
44 CERAMICS, OR POLYMER PLASTICS AND CAPABLE OF BEING USED IN PISTOLS AND
45 REVOLVERS.

-------------------------------------------
If this part is in the final legislation , You guys can say BYE BYE to

M855 / SS-109 ammo
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 5:35:45 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
If this part is in the final legislation , You guys can say BYE BYE to

M855 / SS-109 ammo



None of Silvers BS bills were incorporated into the bill that was passed. They did add the following which does not prohibit the lawful use of "armor piercing ammunition."

33 (9) Such person possesses any armor piercing ammunition with intent to
34 use the same unlawfully against another.


Nothing has changed in the NY definition of armor piercing ammunition:

18. "Armor piercing ammunition" means any ammunition capable of being
used in pistols or revolvers containing a projectile or projectile core,
or a projectile or projectile core for use in such ammunition, that is
constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of any of the following: tungsten
alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or uranium.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:35:10 AM EDT

STATEMENT IN SUPPORT:

New York State is now the safest large state in the nation, but we can
certainly do more to bring an end to gun violence in our communities.



BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Love how they added "large" as a qualifier.

NY has had more home invasions just in LI this year than any two states combined (even large ones) as far as I can tell.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:55:28 AM EDT
Just more "feel good" legislation. It doesn't hurt the criminal one bit as usual. NJ will be next.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:33:42 AM EDT
Maybe someone can enlighten me:

1 A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third
2 degree when:
...
19 (5) (i) Such person possesses [twenty] three or more firearms; or (ii)
20 such person possesses a firearm and has been previously convicted of a
21 felony or a class A misdemeanor defined in this chapter within the five
22 years immediately preceding the commission of the offense and such
23 possession did not take place in the person's home or place of business;
...
28 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felo-
29 ny.


Does this mean that if one owns 3 or more LEGAL guns in NY state, you've automatically committed a Class D felony (with a grand prize of up to 7 years in prison?)
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:26:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buzzer:
Maybe someone can enlighten me:

Does this mean that if one owns 3 or more LEGAL guns in NY state, you've automatically committed a Class D felony (with a grand prize of up to 7 years in prison?)



No. You are not subject to any of these illegal possession statutes If you have been issued a Pistol License as provided for in PL 400. The NY definition of a "firearm" has not changed as it pertains to the above statute and is as follows:

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the
barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:10:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

No. You are not subject to any of these illegal possession statutes If you have been issued a Pistol License as provided for in PL 400. The NY definition of a "firearm" has not changed as it pertains to the above statute and is as follows:



I'm confused - what if you do not have a pistol license and possess more than X (3?) number of firearms which are not pistols?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:13:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:28:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 2:29:04 PM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By littleguy:
I'm confused - what if you do not have a pistol license and possess more than X (3?) number of firearms which are not pistols?



You need to review what defines a "firearm" in the above post. If you are in NY and possess a banned assault weapon, short barreled rifle or a short barreled shotgun you are in possession of an illegal "firearm'. A legal length rifle (not otherwise defined as an AW) or shotgun is not a "firearm" as it pertains to this and some other sections of the NY PL.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:27:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:52:38 AM EDT
Ah - I get it now . The legal definition of firearm vs. the everyday use of the term is what put me on the wrong track.

Thanks,
Buzz
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:58:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buzzer:
Ah - I get it now . The legal definition of firearm vs. the everyday use of the term is what put me on the wrong track.

Thanks,
Buzz



i like your pic of the Professional
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