The new Democratic Colorado legislature will no longer allow a state resident to use an out of state permit to carry concealed in the state.
(Denver Post 1/30/2006)
Only out of state travellers will be allowed to use out of state CHL's. And new residents of Colorado will have 30 days to apply for new permits.

This new bill is being drawn up in Senate committee so it looks like people will have almost a year to get Colorado CHL's if it passes.

Looks like we won't lose all our gun rights with the new Dems.

Do you have a link for this story?  I didn't have any luck finding it on the website.

I will look, but I read it in the actual paper Denver Post.

It is also on www.thedenverchannel.com if you search for "handgun" as a actual video news story.

It's SB 07-034.

Fresh in my mind, because I just wrote The Oh-So-Honorable Jennifer Veiga a letter about how it's a Bad Thing(TM) and just a revenue grab for the sheriffs and a means to harass applicants since we have the same standards as Florida and Utah anyway.

Will it do any good? Stay tuned.

Thanks for the information

Voting on it tomorrow, call your state senator to tell him to vote against it.

My senator is Sue Windells so I will have to call someone else who will listen.

Quoted: Voting on it tomorrow, call your state senator to tell him to vote against it. My senator is Sue Windells so I will have to call someone else who will listen.

in a democratic controlled colorado GOOD LUCK
i'd like to take this time to thank all those who voted for bill ritter.
we get the government we deserve

Quoted: Quoted: Voting on it tomorrow, call your state senator to tell him to vote against it. My senator is Sue Windells so I will have to call someone else who will listen. in a democratic controlled colorado GOOD LUCK i'd like to take this time to thank all those who voted for bill ritter. we get the government we deserve

Some of the Democrats elected are pro-gun but most of the Dem leaders like Ritter & Romanov are very anti-gun.

what are the chances of it passing?

Quoted: what are the chances of it passing?

According to the Denver Post today, it's a done deal...

Bummer...

Forrest

I checked the state assembly website and it said that the second reading was postponed.  I imagine that means that it hasn't been voted on?  Anyone know if they still have the database of permit holders (it was supposed to sunset, but I forget when)?

hkOrion

Quoted: Anyone know if they still have the database of permit holders (it was supposed to sunset, but I forget when)?

It's supposed to sunset this summer...but if you haven't heard, you're gonna love this:

pdf of HB1174

I have no problem with making people get a state ccw much like a state drivers license. BUT, I'm not sure how I feel about this response to leaving a state list of ccw holders. I know we have a legal right to have firearms, but we also have a legal right to drive if the person is competent. My problem is that with all the trouble criminals cause, is having a state ccw list that cops can use when doing a traffic stop such a bad idea! They know right up front who you are and if you have any outstanding warrants when they pull a person over before they even get out of their car. So why not let them know you have a legal ccw too. What if a person gets in a wreck and gets knocked unconscious, the cops will at least know to look for a weapon. I'd rather get my firearm back from them than have to tell them later I was carrying and the firearm had disappeared because no one bothered to look for it.

I'm thinking a reasonable response and direction of action is better than letting an elected group of people have a knee jerk, fear based, response to a problem that we, people who follow the laws, don't cause.

So they passed this law, maybe! Ok, so why not communicate with them about how we feel and why and ask them to direct their energy toward criminals and where the problem lies instead of toward law abiding people. Also make sure they understand we are watching their work and we vote.

Just a thought.

Quoted: I have no problem with making people get a state ccw much like a state drivers license. BUT, I'm not sure how I feel about this response to leaving a state list of ccw holders. I know we have a legal right to have firearms, but we also have a legal right to drive if the person is competent. My problem is that with all the trouble criminals cause, is having a state ccw list that cops can use when doing a traffic stop such a bad idea! They know right up front who you are and if you have any outstanding warrants when they pull a person over before they even get out of their car. So why not let them know you have a legal ccw too. What if a person gets in a wreck and gets knocked unconscious, the cops will at least know to look for a weapon. I'd rather get my firearm back from them than have to tell them later I was carrying and the firearm had disappeared because no one bothered to look for it. I'm thinking a reasonable response and direction of action is better than letting an elected group of people have a knee jerk, fear based, response to a problem that we, people who follow the laws, don't cause. So they passed this law, maybe! Ok, so why not communicate with them about how we feel and why and ask them to direct their energy toward criminals and where the problem lies instead of toward law abiding people. Also make sure they understand we are watching their work and we vote. Just a thought.

That list still only results in more of our rights being widdled away.  The last time I checked, we have a right to defend ourselves, but we most certainly don't don't have god given rights to drive; hence the drivers "license".  I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of criminals that have used a firearm in a crime, were in possesion of that firearm illegally.  What I'm saying is that most people that go through the hoops to secure a CCW are not the common criminal, but rather the lawfully abiding citizen that is looking to protect themselves.

So, when you take in the above, what exactly are we accomplishing by allowing a list to be generated?

They're just pissed that Utah and Florida are getting alot of money from colorado subjects errr citizens.

Next thing they'll ban class 3 stuff, that's why i won't move back to WA.  I don't even have anything class 3...

Utah is looking nice.

This is the video link:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/video/10873908/detail.html


I hope this gets killed.  How many "criminals" will this create?  This is the first I had heard of it.  How many folks with Utah, or Florida permits that currently enjoy reciprocity will get in trouble due to ignorance of this new sneaky provision?  And is there anything that these "representatives" do NOT wish to put their greedy paws on and control?

Looking at HB1174 - WTF does this mean:

SECTION 2. Safety clause. The general assembly hereby finds, 13 determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate 14 preservation of the public peace, health, and safety.

Shouldn't there be a section where it states that this act does not infringe upon the rights of the People of Colorado as oulined in the US Constitution or the Colorado State Constitution?

Just more fingers in my pockets.  Ugh.  I moved here to get away from this shit.

IIRC, the safety clause only means that the bill takes effect immediately upon signature, or 30 days from, or some such. All laws without a safety clause take effect on July 1st.

FWIW, my state senator wrote back Friday with "I'll need more time to study this before I have time to vote." Considering that she's one of the more-liberal members, I'm thinking that our letters may be having an effect and they're starting to see how gun control will not be to their advantage. Or the amendment to the Labor Peace Act might have just eaten up the entire day.

If you haven't written, write!

Quote from shootemup;
That list still only results in more of our rights being widdled away.  The last time I checked, we have a right to defend ourselves, but we most certainly don't don't have god given rights to drive; hence the drivers "license".  I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of criminals that have used a firearm in a crime, were in possesion of that firearm illegally.  What I'm saying is that most people that go through the hoops to secure a CCW are not the common criminal, but rather the lawfully abiding citizen that is looking to protect themselves.

So, when you take in the above, what exactly are we accomplishing by allowing a list to be generated?End quote.


I agree we don't have a constitutional right to drive. What I was getting at is if a person can drive and gets a license then that person can legally drive. So when a cop pulls that person over they can present their license and the question of their right to drive becomes moot. Also the cop should know immediately if this person should be driving this car. No warrants, valid drivers license, insurance, etc. Also I think most cops know if the person they just pulled over has a history of arrests or moving violations. All this info should help the cop to some extent when presented with a valid drivers license.

Add to this the info of a valid ccw license and the cop should expect an even higher level of law compliance. Might this put the cop more at ease? I'm not a Leo so I can't answer the question, but only assume the possibility of easing a stress filled job somewhat.

Couple this with keeping personal info current on drivers and ccw license, I'd hope most cops would treat the person with a more relaxed approach. This entire approach could only lower the tension in an already high stress situation between the cop and driver.

Maybe I'm dreaming or just naive. I definitely agree in a perfect world setting we should not need a license for buying or carrying a firearm. Unfortunately with criminals, terrorists and drug addicts running about in high numbers, I was only looking for a reasonable approach to quickly identifying a law abiding person thus freeing up both the cop and the other person.

"This entire approach could only lower the tension in an already high stress situation between the cop and driver.

Maybe I'm dreaming or just naive. I definitely agree in a perfect world setting we should not need a license for buying or carrying a firearm. Unfortunately with criminals, terrorists and drug addicts running about in high numbers, I was only looking for a reasonable approach to quickly identifying a law abiding person thus freeing up both the cop and the other person." Quote by MBROOKS



I think that you are totally dreaming.  You think that a LEO will be put at ease by the knowlege that the person they are detaining for a traffic stop, or whatever, is armed?  I am afraid that it will have the exact opposite response that you are envisioning.  In my very limited contact with the law enforcement community it has been my impresion that the majority of LEO's do not look very favorably on an armed citizenry.    

+1

and it's not just a 'good guys' database.  It's a 'Person of Interest' database.  I definately don't want to be an 'interesting' person to the LEO's around here.  My extremely limited interactions with them has not been positive by any means.  

It was a stupid idea to begin with, now they want to expand it and make sure everyone with a CCW in CO is in there.  There was a reason I got a FL license, and it wasn't monetary.

Quoted: +1 and it's not just a 'good guys' database.  It's a 'Person of Interest' database.  I definately don't want to be an 'interesting' person to the LEO's around here.  My extremely limited interactions with them has not been positive by any means.   It was a stupid idea to begin with, now they want to expand it and make sure everyone with a CCW in CO is in there.  There was a reason I got a FL license, and it wasn't monetary.

I agree. 2/3 of my interactions with police while having my CCW have been good, but one was very uncomfortable. I would prefer they didn't know. They wouldn't know if it was a bad guy armed.

Quoted: Quoted: +1 and it's not just a 'good guys' database.  It's a 'Person of Interest' database.  I definately don't want to be an 'interesting' person to the LEO's around here.  My extremely limited interactions with them has not been positive by any means.   It was a stupid idea to begin with, now they want to expand it and make sure everyone with a CCW in CO is in there.  There was a reason I got a FL license, and it wasn't monetary. I agree. 2/3 of my interactions with police while having my CCW have been good, but one was very uncomfortable. I would prefer they didn't know. They wouldn't know if it was a bad guy armed.

My point exactly. They wouldn't know if a bad guy is armed because those scum don't follow the law anyway. Someone with a ccw license usually does follow the law and most cops know that. Most of the cops I've talked to about an armed society have no problem with it as long as they know the armed citizens are law abiding. Anyone open enough to have a ccw license probably isn't trying to hide anything,(illegal activity).

I really don't understand the paranoia some people have about a mandatory ccw license other than we never needed one before. But, we also never had gang home invasions, armed car jackings and various other violence in our country at the present scale existing today. The cops today face more potential deadly violence from a wider spectrum of society than ever before. Be paranoid if you want, but helping cops doesn't bother me in the least.

If someone could clarify, that would be great. At what point does the officer know that you are "a person of interest?" When the run your tag? As far as I understand, one is required to inform the officer verbally that you are carrying a handgun CCW.

thanks

11B

When you get your CO CCW you are placed in the DB, I would imagine it's linked to your DL.  There is NO duty to inform in CO.

Quoted: Quoted: Anyone know if they still have the database of permit holders (it was supposed to sunset, but I forget when)? It's supposed to sunset this summer...but if you haven't heard, you're gonna love this: pdf of HB1174

Here's the Senate version

So what it says is that the person must have a matching license and ccw from the same issuing state to have the ok to carry here in Colorado. Oh, so for those people who try to circumvent the system in Colorado and remain hidden from the DB, this puts a major crimp in their plans. Umm, I guess those people better dig up their cache of weapons and head for the jungles of South America before it's to late.

My favorite part is this

"The general assembly hereby finds, determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, and safety"

What a bunch of shitbags.

Quoted: My favorite part is this "The general assembly hereby finds, determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, and safety" What a bunch of shitbags.

That pretty well sums it up...

Forrest

Quoted: So what it says is that the person must have a matching license and ccw from the same issuing state to have the ok to carry here in Colorado. Oh, so for those people who try to circumvent the system in Colorado and remain hidden from the DB, this puts a major crimp in their plans. Umm, I guess those people better dig up their cache of weapons and head for the jungles of South America before it's to late.

Who pissed in your cornflakes?  

There is no circumventing the system, that's how the system was designed.  CO currently accepts out-of-state CWP - nowhere did it ever state that you had to be a resident of that state.  If CO can't make it more cost effective to get a CO CWP than a FL non-res CWP then who's to blame anyone for getting the FL licensce?  And, it gets you other states to boot.  Added on top of that there's the nice little 'Person-of-Interest' database that lumps you in with all kinds of people who have broken the law, not taken the time to get a lawful permit.  What kind of assinine thinking is that?

Quoted: So what it says is that the person must have a matching license and ccw from the same issuing state to have the ok to carry here in Colorado. Oh, so for those people who try to circumvent the system in Colorado and remain hidden from the DB, this puts a major crimp in their plans. Umm, I guess those people better dig up their cache of weapons and head for the jungles of South America before it's to late.

All due respect, this kind of commentary from a fellow "average gun owner" makes me want to bury guns before it's too late. Just because a person views with suspicion and/or resistance a governmental body wanting to "keep tabs just in case" doesn't make them a looney. In fact, even if they are looney, it doesn't make them wrong. The people making up these "reasonable, common-sense" rules used the records they compiled to confiscate firearms from coast to coast time and again. And let's not forget the recent "We're the police - we're here to help" incidents in New Orleans.

In regard to gun laws, I'm a firm believer that less is more - none is best - and I'll take my chances with the resulting bloody anarchy such as has been witnessed in places like Vermont and Alaska.

Has any politician ever been able to show a real correlation of crime rates and legal handgun ownership?  I mean crime up with more guns, not crime down. I have seen those sorts of stats. I know that politicians love to trot out the number of domestic violence and accidental shootings that they blame ongun ownership, but what about CCL? I would think that people with trainging and licensing become less likely to cause problems than the average gun buyer, not more.
The more politicians talk/do/suggest, the more I realize that most of them have no idea what they are talking about and more critically don't care. They just want to fool the majority of the people into voting for them.hometownI hope that this is not the first step in a more serious threat to your gun rights, as I think many of you fear it is.
Good luck!

that's great news!  let's just hope they don't try again next year

Can someone CONFIRM this with a link? I looked bill 34 online and it said it was "laid over" in reading three.

11B

Well shucks.  Too bad I dug up my cache and moved to South America already.  Because Lord knows that any skepticism on the intention of bueracratic governmental bodies is pure unadulterated paranoia.  

On a serious note.  It looks like our, and other concerned citizens letters and outreach may have had an effect on this bill.  Lets keep it up.  

Quoted: Can someone CONFIRM this with a link? I looked bill 34 online and it said it was "laid over" in reading three. 11B

Try the CSSA website. They sent me an e-mail last night about it
Colorado State Shooting Association.

Quoted: Well shucks.  Too bad I dug up my cache and moved to South America already.

Heh heh...
You too?  Hey, we might be neighbors.  
Which jungle did you move to?  

On a more serious note...this is great news!!!
(At least for most of us)  

GOP heads off Morse bill to curb concealed-carry

www.coloradosenatenews.com/content/view/97/26/

Tuesday, 13 February 2007

Supporters of Colorado's concealed-carry weapons program cheered a surprise move by Republicans today that stopped an attempt to curb out-of-state permits. The move blindsided newly elected Colorado Springs Democrat Sen. John Morse, who had been catching heat from right-to-arms advocates over his bill.

Some of Morse's fellow senators dubbed the development an embarrassment to him and the Democrat leadership.

Morse, a rookie legislator serving in his first elective office ever, watched in silence as his first proposal, Senate Bill 34, was manhandled by critics--including three members of his own party--and rewritten into the opposite of what he intended.

“He never saw it coming,” said Sen. Greg Brophy, R-Wray. “The next time that Senator Morse wants to take away the rights of law-abiding citizens, he’d better get up a little earlier in the morning."

SB-34, as originally written, would have restricted Colorado's recognition of valid out-of-state concealed-carry firearms permits. The bill became an immediate, top-priority target of opposition from gun-rights groups led by the National Rifle Association, or NRA.

"The purpose of this bill is to require everyone who wants to carry a concealed weapon to have a permit from their home state to do so," said Morse. "The trick is monitoring them [permit holders] to make sure that a day later, a week later, a month later, a year later, that they continue to qualify for that permit."

Yet, critics of the bill pointed out there is no point in creating another bureaucratic hurdle to concealed-carry permit holders arriving in Colorado from other states because, like permit holders in Colorado, they are overwhelmingly law-abiding citizens.

That sentiment prompted a coup by Senators Dave Schultheis, R-Colorado Springs, and Brophy, who re-wrote the bill to expand the current law so that Colorado would recognize every valid concealed-carry firearms permit issued to legal citizens of the United States.

“This bill as introduced is an unnecessary restriction on concealed-carry permit holders,” said Brophy. “This amendment confirms that we will have true reciprocity in the state of Colorado with law-abiding citizens in other states.”

“This amendment actually fixes this bill, it makes it a good bill, a better bill for the state of Colorado,” he continued. “It becomes a bill that recognizes the Second Amendment and an individual’s right under the second amendment.”

Democrat Senators Jim Isgar of Hesperus, Lois Tochtrop of Thornton, and Bob Hagedorn of Aurora, stood with a united Republican caucus to approve the amendment. Sen. Gail Schwartz, a newly elected Democrat from Snowmass Village near Aspen, who had been heavily lobbied by the NRA and other right-to-arms groups, did not vote with the three Democrat dissenters in support of the amendment.

that's AWESOME!!! that silly dem got owned HARD.

This is a great victory for gun owners in Colorado.  It is one thing that the bill was defeated - it was another when it was turned around to be a pro-CCW bill.

I think it sends a loud and clear message to the antis that we are aware of what they are doing in our Legislature and will respond.

Thanks to everyone who called/mailed/emailed their elected officials.  I think it makes a difference.

Allan

we're not out of the woods yet!

Last Stand to Prevent Attack on Right-To-Carry in Colorado! Tuesday, February 20, 2007 Please Contact Your State Senators Today! Senate Bill 34, sponsored by State Senator John Morse (D-11), passed on second reading today, in the Colorado Senate.   If enacted, non-resident concealed carry permits will no longer be honored if the address on the holder’s identification is different than the state where the permit was issued.  For example, a Florida permit issued to a non-resident will not be recognized in Colorado.  No demonstrated need has been presented to justify SB34, legislation that will potentially threaten reciprocity agreements.  This bill will invalidate non-resident permit holders as well as create second-class citizens out of Colorado residents. Two State Senators, Senators Ken Kester (R-2) and Jack Taylor (R-8), originally committed to vote against this legislation and are now considering changing their position at the last minute.   There is one last vote to try to kill Senate Bill 34 in the Senate. PLEASE CONTACT SENATORS KESTER AND TAYLOR AND RESPECTFULLY URGE THEM TO OPPOSE SB34! State Senator Ken Kester can be reached at (303) 866-4877 or via email, [email protected].  State Senator Jack Taylor can be reached at (303) 866-5292.  Also, please continue contacting your State Senator at (303) 866-2316 and respectfully urge him or her to oppose SB34.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=2643

Son of a bitch!!!  

What the hell is the Republican party doing in this state?  Party leaders need to snap those two fuckers back to reality.

Goddamn turncoat pricks.  

Sorry guys, looks like I spoke too soon.

Republican turncoats!

Quoted: Son of a bitch!!!   What the hell is the Republican party doing in this state?  Party leaders need to snap those two fuckers back to reality. Goddamn turncoat pricks.

Moving left. Just a few steps behind the Dems.

Looks to me like we lost today.  Can someone confirm if this was the final vote today?  I was looking here
It is kind of confusing, but it looks like this piece of crap bill passed.

Quoted: Quoted: Son of a bitch!!!   What the hell is the Republican party doing in this state?  Party leaders need to snap those two fuckers back to reality. Goddamn turncoat pricks.   Moving left. Just a few steps behind the Dems.

And in a sprint to catch up, it would seem.  

Hopefully Kester and Taylor's anti-gun stance won't be forgetten by their constituents next election.