Stopped by cabelas a couple weeks back and saw the annual Hornady reloading bundle incentives were back. Buy a kit get 1000 bullets free and buy a peripheral part and get another 100 bullets.

That's a pretty good incentive to get into reloading. What say the masters on Hornady reloading equipment?

I have a Hornady LnL AP and I love it!
Things to keep an eye on when operating it are;
Keep the shell plate clean, bits of powder/whatever will work their way into the primer slide and keep it from traveling all the way in.
Occasionally check the bolt holding the shell plate, it can work loose and cause minor problems.

Once again, it is an awesome press. I think they say you can load up to 600 rds/hour but the best I have done is somewhere around 400. Is that enough for you?

400-600 rounds an hour will be more than enough. I could probably get away with a single stage press for the amounts I'll reload.

I plan on reloading .308(both bulk for my FAL and precision for my 700 sps), .45acp, .40 or 9mm which ever my wife settles on, and probably .223 to help feed my wife's Christmas present.  I was going to get an AR for christmas/b-day but I may go reloader instead.

i liked my LnL but it didn't really come alive until i got the case feeder.  Also i suggest getting both the hornady COP (powder check die) and the rcbs lockout die.  the lockout only works on pistols but can be a life saver

I just got mine last year. I am still new to it so some of the quirks of using a progressive press. But dang it sure is nice to take shells and throw them into the tumbler to get them clean and then start loading into the press and have it sized and deprimed on one stroke. primed pressing up past the detent. Then on next stroke belled. Next stroke powdered. Next stroke I have a powder cop to check the powder charge. And placing a bullet and one more stroke and it seats the bullet and kicks it out. Now mean time you have been adding a case each stroke and adding another bullet. You now are getting a complete round every handle pull and setting a fire case in and a bullet.

It is a bit much at first for a person who has for over 20 yrs loaded on a single stage press. I recommend a powder cop. Most important thing that can be screwed up is the powder charge. Not that you are going to double charge, but a powder bridge will create a possible near double charge. I think that any progressive is a money trap. Got to add this and that to make it run faster or better. LOL I just bought the Hornday bullet feeder dies for 45 and 9mm. I dont have the bullet tumbler for lack of better name. But I have tubes with about 50 bullet each. Put them above the feeder die and just pull a keeper pin. So now all I have to do and manually feed the cases. Bullet automatically set on the brass ready to be seated. Going to fire up tomorrow night and check out how this works. I think you would love to use the Hornady LNL AP. It will just take some time to do the first set up. Once the dies are set in the locking sleeve. Should be good to go and swapping from one cal to the next will only need to adj the powder measure for length. I got the micrometer for the powder adjustment and will note the setting for powder and charge. Should be easy to return to a good setting.

WS-6, what is this RCBS lock-out die?

I had one. I sold it soon after. Not a fan.

Care to elaborate? What made it unsatisfactory?

Ben next time you are over you can look at my set up....

Sounds good.

I went bonkers on reloading equipment this year. Bought Dillon 550 and 650 machines. Also Hornady LnL AP and Classic. Don't ask which is favorite because my answer would have to be whatever is in use that day. Have compared presses in reloading forum with honest assessments of each based on my experiences with each machine. Evaluations were made by my standards for cartridge loading. It's not the highest bar set by a handloader. Have quickly found standards were much higher than most are taking the credit for getting. One guys idea of match grade is more inline with my definition of drill grade.

Without getting into the down falls of the blue machines I will say this. Dillons made for speed and ideal for quantity production. Have older Dillon manual with caption at bottom that reads something like, " this press is made for those who hate to reload." I believe it too. Hand loading isn't about speed.

Hornady AP I have was bought used for $400.00. It wasn't a steal or even a deal so free bullets never entered into my decision to buy. AP press was owned by a Marine selling off before deployment. He has a family and moved family to a nice house before deploying. Was all too happy to help with giving asking price. Had done homework and knew AP was capable of loading a more dimensionally consistant cartridge.

In the grand scheme of speed. Dillon wins out. Best case feeder assembly by all reports goes to Dillon. Have one on XL650 and is plug and play. On cartridge consistancy. Oal being my issue. Hornady is tight at the bottom and top where Dillon wobbles for play on both ends. This tidbit of fact throws the blue Kool aid brigade into spastic fits but its true. AP is clear choice for loading rifle for me. Dillons a lot of fun if you can live with some minor cartridge variations.

Buy AP with peace of mind knowing it's a sound choice. If you have questions ask. Will answer based on experience, not emotion.
If you're close to Columbia, would volunteer to help get you up and going. Know a tuning trick or two about AP.

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I have used both, and sold the Hornady off.  It has issues with the primer feed system.  The Dillon doesnt.  But both can be finicky.  I chose the one I had the least problems with.  As far as dimensionally correct ammo, if Ernest Tubb can win all the matches he has reloading on a Dillon, its good enough for me.  I have had no issues what so ever with ammo varying when reloading match .308 or 260 Rem for long range matches.


Bill

I have the Hornaday model prior to the LNL which you have to screw all the dies in, I like the idea of the lock and load design but don't have any experience with it. I will agree with the issue involving the primer station, what I did was get a hand primer and prime the cases before running them through the press. It is an extra step but it saves a lot of hassle later, also agree with the powder cop suggestion. I luckily only had 1 non charged and no over charged rounds before I bought my powder cop.

the only truly negative thing is the bushing for the dies you have to buy

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=4006  it takes some playing with to get to adjust it and it does have some play room once adjusted.  on 40 cal cases IIRC is it about .4 grain.  the way i adjust it is that it set the upper cutoff right really close the powder charge.  if it is under it will still go through but it won't let an over go through.  only works for pistol and you have to adjust it for every diffent charge/case combo seperatly (it can be time consuming).  if you plan to run large runs (say 5k) it is great.

as for priming, i only have issues on .223 mil cases anymore.  the 30-06 mil (Granada), .223 commercial, 9mm, 38 spl, .357 mag, and .40 prime fine.  the .223 mil cases tend to tip some but do prime (with a high primer, usually 8-20 out of 100).  i use a rcbs hand primer to flush them when i inspect them after loading.  i inspect 10 at a time and then load that batch onto strippers as i go.  rejects sorted into 2 bins when rejected.  high primers and other.  high primers are fixed and then loaded onto strippers.  others are broke down for componets and dealt with from there.

just an FYI.  pistol you can clean and run without doing anything else.  bottleneck rifle on the other hand will require prep before loading.  i want to this winter work on setting up my AP to automate most of the prep but haven't started yet

I like my LNL and chose it over Dillon just because of price after much research. Been reloading over 30 years so it helps to know what to watch for as far as the various die and powdwer measure adjustments to watch for and such. It seem they all have little quirks that can pop up at times. I have found that keeping the primer shuttle hold down screw a bit on the loose side eliminates any primer feed problems for me YMMV. I load 5.56 , 45acp, and 44magnum and just taking my time can do on average 250 rnds an hour which is fine with me after years of using singlr stage presses. Do agree that case feeder would big advantage.

My findings with the LNL AP primer shuttle was a bit of head scratching and then I did a few things to help. I have some powdered graphite, so I sprinkled some into the slide way. I also where having problems with only the large primers not feeding properly. Did some reading on line and looked at the small shuttle. Found that the large shuttle did not have a radius cut where as the small shuttle did. Also found on line a few that fixed it with a radius cut on top where the primer dropped into the hole. I might also stoned the 4 sides the rub the raceway. Also I drilled  a blind hole in a 150 grain bullet. Hole is just large enough for the rod that rides down on the primers. Just heavy enough to help the primers to drop into the slide. P.S. I epoxied the bullet onto the rod. This also was in one of the fixes I found online.

WS-6 Thanks for the reply.

I'll be the first one to bitch about things that don't work. What little problems with primer shuttle experienced were cured by polishing primer bar and area primer bar slides on top of. It's just too easy to make an LnL run. To elaborate further would just be down right insulting to those who've had issues and were not able to correct.

I should get into the business of press tuning because there's not a press made that can't be made to scream once I get a hold of it.  Anyone needing a press tuned to run like a raped ape riding a machine gun IM me for shipping instructions. Turn around could be 2 days to 2 weeks. I'd do a couple for free.

got a question for you.  the only problem with priming that i have is priming 5.56 mil cases only (as stated above). the primers tend to be a little harder to go in and i get some high primers.  for pocket prep i am using the hornady reamer and the rcbs depth uniformer.  to me it would seem that the punch was a hair bit longer it would run fine.  i have called hornady on it and they aren't making one yet (but it is on a list for them to look at doing).  you have any ideas?

ETA:  also i notice that the 5.56 cases tend to tip a little while priming.  i have tried 2 different shell plates and they both do it

I like the idea of polishing the slide but what else do you do to slick them up? Personally I just keep a small (1" I think) paint brush around and occasionally dust the shell plate/primer slide areas.
Come to think of it that is 95% of my problems there.  
I do have rod I place in the primer tube for two reasons. 1. it adds a bit more weight and ensures those primers go into the slide at the top of the stroke and 2. it is marked so I have an idea how many primers I have left.
I also made a small coupler that fits on the top of the primers tube. I slide the loaded primer pickup tube into it and then pull the pin. It guarantees the primers are all lined up and drop straight in with out hanging up (ever sneeze when dropping primers in?). Heck, it could also act as an extension to double the primers I guess.
I am also adding a small LED light right at the station where the powder drops, I like watching the filled case to make sure it has powder and that the level of powder is in the ballpark (for those powders that like to bridge, I hate getting squibs).

The plate didnt move well on mine. The primers never really would stay smoothly seating. It over all to me just seemed to be kinda choppy. Its been a few years.

I have had problems seating primers especially in .223 but after I started swaging the primer pockets the problems pretty much disappeared. Still, I know what you mean.

All I have ever had to do to .MIL 5.56 brass is to take my forester chamfer tool and trim the primer pocket.
Then I hand prime all my cases with a Lee Autoprime and off I go.
Then I just reload and don't prime with the press... Of course I resize and decap before cleaning the cases too.

90%+ of .223 is 5.56 mil brass (usually either LC or WinNT).  i did some hand priming but for 5k+ batches it kind of sucks.  The hornady tool is also does a little chamfer.  i have no problem starting the primers, it just seems that the pockets are tight width wise and that is what causes the issue.  i think if the punch was a couple of 32's longer it would be fine

Couple 32nd longer is a LOT... LOT!
The Swaging tool that RCBS sold sucked, I just used the chamfer tool and called it good, never had a problem...
Sit there watching Combat Missions and priming cases!

Military crimps should be swaged, then uniformed. There's different schools of thought concerning every stage in reloading. Most of us take the path of least resistance and there's differing schools of thought on what that is too.

Some of us think its doing no more than's necessary to bring a cartridge to chamber. While others feel the path is minimizing finger prints through process.

I think consensus is to swage at a minimum. That's great if working with all like brass. If working assorted brass, consensus largely agrees with swaging, then uniforming.

My idea of least path of resistance is removing the strain off tooling whenever possible and tooling would include the use of fingers to my way of thinking.

Started swaging with RCBS swager, then stepped up to Dillon swager. For less than $100.00 you can own a tool capable of swaging 1000+ mil brass an hour.
Afterwards you can chuck a uniformer into a drill and uniform 1000+ an hour.

Several fellas I know of, have Dillon RT1200 trimmers mounted in their AP presses. They have sizer die in station one, trimmer in station 3 or 4.

Afterwards brass is swaged via Dillon swager and moved to RCBS prep center.

Prep center has five stations.

My stations are set as listed.

Chamfure inside case mouth.

Chamfure outside case mouth.

Uniform primer pocket.

Deburr flash hole.

Case brush inside brass. I'm amazed at the shit that drops out afterwards.

Swager is set to swage 3/4 depth of primer pocket, uniformer easily handles remaing depth. This is the process for successful primer seating in military brass


Polishing primer bar and sliding surface. I do this with 400 grit sand paper.




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errr....i know i need to stop doing too many things at once at work.  it should have been a 64th

i usually ream instead of swag due to the mix of brass i use (aka range pickups mixed in).  i am thinking about getting the dillon swagger but the only thing that has stopped me is knowing you have to reset the the depth for each web thickness.  i never did think about setting it for 3/4 the way though and that probably fix the having the reset it for all the different web thicknesses.  

for prep i am looking to see if i can mount a general decap in 1, lube die in 2, trimmer in 4.  i thought the dillon trimmer was suppose to debur and camfer the inside and outside of the cases also when it cut.  that would just leave flash hole uniforming and pocket depth uniforming to do on my RCBS prep center.

Fact, fiction and legend. There's been some debate over this issue lately in reloading forum. Having bought the equipment I have this year has shed some light on all three. Perception being the one forgiving factor of calling bullshit on a few characters debating equipment merit.

RT1200 makes a very straight cut. If you get an up close and personal on cutter blade you see that it's a straight edge. No way on God's green earth can a straight edge chamfure sides of case mouth when trimming straight off the top as it does.

I looked at Giraurd but it adds a step to my procedure. I trim and run through prep center the first time only. Prep center is how my pockets are uniformed. Once done my need for prep center is done.

Lyman M die is used to smooth inside case mouth afterwards.

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reading through this I saw a few that agreed that reloading 5.56 Mil brass primers are hard to seat... Don't military brass have a crimp in the primer pocket that you have to remove (swaging??) before you seat the primer?? Are you guys saying that they're still hard to seat even after doing this step?? I've just been looking into getting started reloading and this is some random piece of info I read on the internet, so it may or may not be true.

If swaged, then uniformed primers seat just as easy as new brass without military crimp.

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Heh, you don't have to swage milsurp brass but it makes it much easier and decreases the amount of primers/brass you f'up in the process.
On top of that some primers are harder and require more force to seat and some times nothing works like it is supposed to.
Oh, if they seat too easily that can mean problems too.


Yeah, there is a lot to learn but it is well worth the effort.

you can either swag (pushes a button into the primer pocket and flows the brass to the new size) or you can ream it (cut away the crimp).  I ream.  The problem that you can run into with swagging is that you have to make sure the swagger is setup right.  If you swag too deep then you make the primer pockets too loose to hold the primers.  most swaggers are setup so they are pressing against the inside of the case web and the web thickness can vary between manifactures and case types.    what 1911 smith is saying (and i never really thought about trying to do it this way) is that you purposely set the swagger to stop a little early.  The primer pocket depth uniformer will take care of the unswagged part of the case but it you run into a batch of cases with a little thinner web then it will swag them to the normal proper depth without trashing them.  

BTW, for what it matters i use only CCI 41 (mil spec) primers for all my .223 loads so yes they do have a hard cup.  i tend to use only CCI primers for everything actually.

Yikes !! How many primer cups have you set off ?

Amazingly, zero.

Amazing I have never set off a primer yet either. I do a fair amount of reloading. But then too, I am not in the top ten reloaders. I have even slowly punched back out live CCI-35 (50BMG) primers and then reinstalled them. Have totally demolished a few primers on brass that still had the crimp. But knock on wood, none of them have ever gone off. I hear that esp the CCI-35 sound like a shotgun went off.

CCI primers have hard cups, Setting one off is difficult, not impossible. I set a Winchester primer off one time in my early days of reloading. When things got tight, pull the handle harder, right ?

The gal I was see'in at the time said "that" needed to go outside. In my house of all places ! . Press stayed in living room.  She was a nice package of benefits while she lasted.

This exchange in MOHTF is more honest than ever would have been in reloading forum.

Had this thread posted in reloading forum it wouldn't have steered the direction it has. Priming crimped military brass without so much as a swage, reamer, or uniformer isn't done. I know it's done outside of those who know better. My son is one of them. He primes what he can and saves the rest in a five gallon bucket thinking with age primer pockets will open some I guess.... Or dad take pity and fix them for him.

If using hand primer with tray your playing a game of odds. Maybe tray will or won't blow up. Odds are high it won't, just don't say never. Speaking of never, Federal has the softest cup and isn't forgiving when crushed.

I asked in th MOHTF because I wanted honesty and not fan boy brand loyalty. Thanks everyone.

lunyou, sent you meesage.